The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

May be other boats along in the future.

[Wilco Wingco]

Now I am confused. Are we saying that if you only fly fixed wing then there is no need to register????. So gliders and other fixed wing are exempt????? This is too much for my poor 72 year old brain.

[Former Member]

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[Allan Bennett]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 09/11/2019 20:09:29:

Now I am confused. Are we saying that if you only fly fixed wing then there is no need to register????. So gliders and other fixed wing are exempt????? This is too much for my poor 72 year old brain.

No, I think the paragraph that's got your hopes up is the one a couple of posts back refering to 'exempt' aircraft: That is basically aircraft that are less than 250g weight, or control-line. All other model flying aircraft are subject to the new rules.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 09/11/2019 20:09:29:

Now I am confused. Are we saying that if you only fly fixed wing then there is no need to register????. So gliders and other fixed wing are exempt????? This is too much for my poor 72 year old brain.

 

No WW. You'll need to register. Only ones weighing less than 250g are exempt.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 09/11/2019 21:07:14

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

See **LINK** No 3 for exempted activities.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I keep seeing references to pilot registrations by the existing certification route "expiring" after June. As these registrations will be issued on the strength of competence indicated by possession of approved qualifications and independent registrations on the strength of having passed a test "on the day", why would either expire "mid term"?

As I see it, the end date simply aligns with the introduction of new EASA legislation and the CAA are simply granting a period until then in which registration for 3 years can be made using your existing qualification.  When these expire, who knows what regulations will have evolved...

Perhaps this is too logical but I haven't seen anything stated in official documentation to contradict my assumption.

Edited By Martin Harris on 09/11/2019 22:01:19

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Nail on head Martin.

[Ron Gray]

As it currently stands, registering through the CAA gives you (remote pilot) 3 years, using the exemption it expires in June 2020.

[Former Member]

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[cymaz]

Having looked at the CAA drone site about registering there seems to be a get out here.

Husband and wife both fly. They both have the same email address. Husband has an A cert and looks after the plane, wife is learning to fly.

Wife is staying with her mother one weekend, husband does the flying safety test for his spouse as she has a problem with mother. Wife can now fly legally.

Makes a mockery of the whole system.

[ken anderson.]

i don't understand what i'm reading on some of the posts...ie--if you register and pass the test(if you need to) you are registered for 3 years......But its only valid until June 2020....8 months!.... which will be the one we take note of...?

ken anderson...ne..1.... clarification needed dept.

[Don Fry]

Or Cymas, you go round all your mates in the Destroy the World by Drone Society, and take the test for them. After all, no point in breaking laws unnecessarily.

[cymaz]

Posted by Don Fry on 10/11/2019 09:30:04:

Or Cymas, you go round all your mates in the Destroy the World by Drone Society, and take the test for them. After all, no point in breaking laws unnecessarily.

I'm not going to do that....other club members can do it themselves. I was just pointing out how rediculous the new flier online registration is

BTW....I never ever fly outside of a club......thanks for asking

Edited By cymaz on 10/11/2019 10:00:41

[Martin_K]

Posted by ken anderson. on 10/11/2019 09:23:03:

i don't understand what i'm reading on some of the posts...ie--if you register and pass the test(if you need to) you are registered for 3 years......But its only valid until June 2020....8 months!.... which will be the one we take note of...?

ken anderson...ne..1.... clarification needed dept.

Ken,

If you take the CAA competence test (free) you will be given a Flyer ID valid for 3 years.

If you have a BMFA 'A' certificate you have an exemption from needing a Flyer ID until the end of June 2020.

Some people are equating having an 'A' with getting a Flyer ID. There is nothing I have read that supports this. Having an 'A' does not get you a Flyer ID, only an exemption from the requirement to have a Flyer ID until the end of June 2020.

[ken anderson.]

thanks martin,i believe our club is following the BMFA's instructions....for now.

ken anderson...ne..1 following dept.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Ken, I have just passed the on-line CAA test as I have yet (if ever) to pass the A test ',so this was the outcome;

Having passed the test you will be given a 'Flyer ID' which lasts for 3 years. You must keep this ID with you when flying. You will also be given an 'Operator ID' which only lasts for 1 year. My operator identity is OP-MYWTV. ??.. and I will have to display this on the planes that I fly. I have purposely not shown the last two letters / digits.At the end of the test and prior to the issue of the identities you will be asked to pay the £9 fee.

I am still wondering how to add the operator identity to my planes in such a way that it can be easily altered every year.

As for the CAA test I read through the on-line notes and answered the questions which were quite easy. Most questions were related to drones and many are similar to 'A-test ' questions. There was the odd tricky question related to 'Aps' on mobile phones which I was not clued up on. 

 

 

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 10/11/2019 09:54:28

[cymaz]

The flier test mixes up feet and meters in a couple of questions. Made me think for a minute.

[Mike Stevens]

I took the test without reading too much and passed and registered. I have yet to take my A test but have practiced the questions a fair bit. I have also done some full sized flying so have read quite a lot of that about rules and regs. Agree mixing metric with imperial did make me think.

Edited By Mike Stevens on 10/11/2019 10:03:54

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by cymaz on 10/11/2019 09:56:19:

The flier test mixes up feet and meters in a couple of questions. Made me think for a minute.

In the real world we have

8 foot x 4 foot

6mm Birch Ply ! ! !

[Mike Etheridge 1]

I forgot to highlight that as I see it, it is a legal requirement to obtain your 'Flyer' and 'Operator' identities, and there is the threat of jail if you fly your models and commit some sort of crime without the identities. As it stands as I mentioned before it is a very easy test to obtain the identities, and as far as I am concerned it is just as easy for 'A certificate' holders to pass the test especially as the questions are much the same as those asked within the A-test. So I guess I am the only one at my club that can legally fly at present unless the other members who do hold an 'A-test' can sort themselves out prior to November 30th. It would seem that it is an administration job for the club secretaries and BMFA to obtain the identities of qualified club members and somehow pay the money. Anyone know what is going on at the clubs and BMFA?

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 10/11/2019 11:21:21

[Peter Christy]

Having just read the CAA's official response, (CAP1804, downloadable via a link on the BMFA web site) it is quite clear that there is absolutely no need to rush into registration.

I quote: "The legal requirement to register by 30 Novemeber 2019 remains unchanged, other than for members of the BMFA,SAA, LMA FPV-UK and ARPAS-UK and further selected organisations who will benefit from from general exemptions to allow their registrations to be completed as part of their membership process until 31 January 2020."

So if you are a member of any of the main UK flying associations, you don't need to do anything until you renew your membership. You are exempted until the end of January 2020 (to allow time for the renewal process to go through).

Further: "We will issue general exemptions from the requirement to complete the online competency test ahead of 30 November 2019 to: <snip> Qualifying members of the UK Model Aircraft associations." In other words, anyone who has an A or B cert or has taken the BMFA online competency test (when it appears - hopefully soon).

So, in short, there is no need to panic. Just keep calm and carry on.

Regarding the exemptions expiring on 30 June 2020, this is when the full EU UAS regulations come into effect, so the UK law will need bringing into line at that point. This will mean that any exemptions will need bringing into line at the same time. I think too much is being read into this "end date", and would expect any new legislation necessary to comply with the EU UAS regs to include a similar exemption.

Again, don't panic. Just keep calm and carry on.

I suspect we will know a lot more after the upcoming BMFA AGM. And for those chomping at the bit about the BMFA competency test, bear in mind that the BMFA has only a very small staff for such a large organisation, with much of the work being done by volunteers. This is necessary to keep membership costs down. We all know what a fuss even a trivial rise in membership fees causes.

I have no inside information, but I will be amazed if a lot of work is not going on behind the scenes to get all the necessary schemes up and running as fast as possible. And this is in addition to their regular workload, plus preparing for the AGM!

So, just be patient, and for heaven's sake, stop panicking! We may not be in an ideal situation, but it is far better than looked likely only a few short weeks ago.

--

Pete

[Ron Gray]

@Mike - the CAA guidelines for displaying your operator ID do say to fix it in such a way that it can be easily removed as it will need replacing each year, which may be a bit better than trying to alter it each year?

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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