Flying through covid !

[Matt Carlton]

Matty;

The way I fly sometimes seems to generate an awful lot of receipts... 🤪

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Top and bottom of it is some want to carry on flying and there's wiggle room in the new guidelines, next step is some are hoping the BMFA come out n give their backing to it. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Gary Manuel]

I don't see any wiggle room. It's clear enough to me.

[KELL]

The BMFA haven’t issued any comments yet, unless I’ve missed them somewhere. Maybe that aren’t too sure either. It comes down to the word essential I guess. It’s not essential for me to going flying, so I won’t. Yet I know two members from my local club who took up model flying due to anxiety and stress related illnesses. I’m sure there might be more.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

BMFA will say abide by the lockdown, that's my opinion.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

"Outdoor recreation encouraged, you can meet one person outside your household" Wiggle Wiggle.

[Nigel R]

"You ask 10 scientist a question you are likely to get 12 different answers which can make ‘following the science’ problematical."

Yes, you may have different scientists apply different models to the same data set, and yes, that will result in different answers, but not because of the scientist. A summary of many methods will give a single answer. And here, in the topic to hand, the advisory body receiving prominence in the news, are a single source.

"BMFA will say abide by the lockdown, that's my opinion."

Agreed. And rightly so.

Edited By Nigel R on 02/11/2020 13:26:38

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Gary Manuel]

OK, I'll explain why I think it's clear and leaves no wiggle room.

The rules aren't about whether we should go flying or playing golf or going swimming. They are about minimising contact between people who may (or may not) be infected.

I'll not re-state the rules but as far as modellers are concerned:

1. All clubs should close - no different to golf clubs.

2. If an individual feels the need to drive a short distance to a "public" space to fly a model (or whack a golf ball around), for the sake of his physical / mental health then what's the harm, as long as he only meets one other socially distanced person?

This is common sense to me. It's clearly covered by the rules. It's all about minimising risk.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 02/11/2020 13:39:10

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Some will find wiggle because they are looking for it.

Got 15 foot of conifer hedge to remove should keep me amused for a while.

[Steve Colman]

Posted by tigerman on 02/11/2020 10:23:39:

Can you believe it ,weather forecast

Monday =======windy

Tuesday=======windy

Wednesday ===good flying weather

Lockdown ==Thursday== Brilliant but no flying allowed

Then once we go in to lock down and can not fly Thusrday ,Friday Saturday ,Sunday Monday etc all calm days .Is someone up there having a laugh at us model flyers .I bet come December 3 it will be windy again for day after day

I can beat that!

At the begining of October the weather over here was so so with about 40% - 50% of the days reasonably flyable.

Then, just over 2 weeks ago the local government introduced covid19 travel restrictions which prevented anyone from leaving the town unless travelling to work or for medical reasons. Henceforth I've been unable to drive the round trip of 25 km to my club field and back. During all of this time, apart from possibly 2 rainy days, the weather here has been absolutely perfect for flying; blue skies with the occasional cloud, breeze from 0 to 5 kmh max and temperatures between 19 - 22C. This continues today and will be so for tomorrow also.

What annoys and frustrates me in equal measure me is that my journey to and from the club field would be done with me being totally isolated in my car. And, while at the club it's also highly likely that I'll be alone too. Effectively I will be completely isolated from any other person for the duration.

Meanwhile in the town, every time I venture out wearing my obligatory mask, I encounter people in their droves sitting around very small cafe/bar tables eating tapas and drinking coffee/beers while others are happily smoking with their mask around their chin with social distancing practically non existent.

Present restrictions may/could be extended until May of next year and today talk of home confinement is also on the agenda again.

Rant of discontent over.

Edited By Steve Colman on 02/11/2020 14:06:21

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Doc Marten on 02/11/2020 13:34:34:

Posted by Doctor Chinnery on 02/11/2020 01:00:08:

We should be endeavouring to behave in the spirit of the regulations, not looking for ways to get around them. As someone just said: it's only a month, and the weather isn't very tempting anyway. Anybody would think that the government had it in for us ( the public ), in fact they are trying to contain a potentially fatal disease, despite the best efforts of a thick, selfish minority a significant number of which appear unable to enjoy themselves without the consumption of unwise quantities of ethanol.

Absolutely.

We're going into a second lockdown because of selfish individuals.

Pubs were told to go back to work, that's how millions earn their keep, pay rent, put food on the table, roads have been solid with traffic, kids at school/Uni, shoulder to shoulder at flying clubs, playing fields with kids aplenty. EAT OUT TO HELP OUT. The blame lies with us all, enough with the scapegoating. We can't mention politics, but slagging workers off is O.K ?

Been flying a time or two, model flyers get nowhere near the standards enforced at my Wifes workplace, a PUB.

[Peter Miller]

from what I understand we can take excercise as often as we like. We can go for a reasonable for recreation. We can meet one other person OUTSIDE.

This means that I can go for recreation to our flying field (3 miles by road) I can meet up with one club member on the field.

Until Boris says otherwise that is what I am going to do.

I am allowed to go to the super market. I would say that the above is far, FARsafer than the supermarket.

Oh yes and I have to go for an ultrasound scan next week. If it is safe for that, my flying field is an awful lot safer

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Peter Miller on 02/11/2020 15:37:06:

from what I understand we can take excercise as often as we like. We can go for a reasonable for recreation. We can meet one other person OUTSIDE.

This means that I can go for recreation to our flying field (3 miles by road) I can meet up with one club member on the field.

Until Boris says otherwise that is what I am going to do.

I am allowed to go to the super market. I would say that the above is far, FARsafer than the supermarket.

Oh yes and I have to go for an ultrasound scan next week. If it is safe for that, my flying field is an awful lot safer

The only problem with this Peter, is that the government have ordered indoor and outdoor leisure facilities to close (presumably to prevent people meeting up). I would describe our club as a leisure facility in that it is maintained specifically for leisure purposes (model flying). We rent the field on that basis. Your "flying field" may be different, but the very term you have used in your comment suggests otherwise.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 02/11/2020 16:19:49

[leccyflyer]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 02/11/2020 13:36:35:

OK, I'll explain why I think it's clear and leaves no wiggle room.

The rules aren't about whether we should go flying or playing golf or going swimming. They are about minimising contact between people who may (or may not) be infected.

I'll not re-state the rules but as far as modellers are concerned:

1. All clubs should close - no different to golf clubs.

2. If an individual feels the need to drive a short distance to a "public" space to fly a model (or whack a golf ball around), for the sake of his physical / mental health then what's the harm, as long as he only meets one other socially distanced person?

This is common sense to me. It's clearly covered by the rules. It's all about minimising risk.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 02/11/2020 13:39:10

It's a non-essential journey. Simple as that.

No matter the well being that going flying gives us, it cannot be deemed to be essential, under the circumstances.

If someone really wishes to make the case that it is essential for their mental health to go flying then they really should examine whether that would apply if it were pouring with rain and with 50 mph winds.

In this country we can go for weeks on end with hardly a flyable day, so it is clearly a not very supportable position to claim a trip to go flying is essential. It simply isn't.

[Matt Carlton]

If I go to the club field and I completely ignore anyone else who might be there, can I get away with saying I didn't actually meet anyone during my recreational time? 🤔

I assume that if I go for a walk and see someone coming, I must run the other way or jump into a bush to avoid meeting them.

On the subject of essential trips, of course model flying isn't essential. It also is not essential to go to a supermarket and buy 4 bottles of wine and a box of biscuits, but it is permitted under the lockdown rules.

If we're going to go down the route of defining essentials, then HM Government should reintroduce rationing to stop us buying non essential things.

The problem with introducing words such as 'essential' into the equation is that it is entirely subjective.

I suffer from anxiety and depression and it is absolutely essential that I am able to get out of the house for recreation.

[Gary Manuel]

Hi leckyflyer.

This particular part of the thread started from whether there was wiggle room in the interpretation of the rules. I don't believe there is.

I have stated my interpretation of the rules, which do allow individuals to travel a short distance for leisure purposes, as long as they only meet up with one other socially distanced person.

These are the rules and not based on my opinion.

I share your "opinion" that we should all stay at home until Lockdown 2.0 is over. My personal opinion is that this still won't be enough to get Covid19 under control.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Matt Carlton on 02/11/2020 17:25:58:

If I go to the club field and I completely ignore anyone else who might be there, can I get away with saying I didn't actually meet anyone during my recreational time? 🤔

I assume that if I go for a walk and see someone coming, I must run the other way or jump into a bush to avoid meeting them.

On the subject of essential trips, of course model flying isn't essential. It also is not essential to go to a supermarket and buy 4 bottles of wine and a box of biscuits, but it is permitted under the lockdown rules.

If we're going to go down the route of defining essentials, then HM Government should reintroduce rationing to stop us buying non essential things.

The problem with introducing words such as 'essential' into the equation is that it is entirely subjective.

I suffer from anxiety and depression and it is absolutely essential that I am able to get out of the house for recreation.

Your club field should be closed.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[David Hazell 1]

If you're going out for a walk and you have a plane with you and you fly it, I can't see the harm. If you drive somewhere to go for a walk, I can't see the harm. If you spend hours indoors in a badly ventilated area with lots of other people, I can see the harm. If your mental health is massively spurred on by getting in your car and going for a walk and flying your plane, I can't see the harm.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by David Hazell 1 on 02/11/2020 18:54:37:

If you're going out for a walk and you have a plane with you and you fly it, I can't see the harm. If you drive somewhere to go for a walk, I can't see the harm. If you spend hours indoors in a badly ventilated area with lots of other people, I can see the harm. If your mental health is massively spurred on by getting in your car and going for a walk and flying your plane, I can't see the harm.

Spot on David, and the rules allow this.

What the rules don't allow is for folk to use it as an excuse to carry on flying at your club as though none of this is happening.

[Dickw]

BMFA statement.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Latest newsflash from the BMFA suggests all clubs in England should close.

Straightforward enough.

[Jonathan M]

Not really totally water-tight. They don't say all flying must cease, just that all clubs (i.e. indoor and outdoor venues) should be closed.

What's to stop me taking my rubber-powered toy the field on the edge of my village and flying it?

Just asking, that's all.

[Gary Manuel]

JM

Only one thing. Meeting other people!