Price of Kits

[Tony H]

Hi All,

What does everyone think of the price of kits these days? They seem to have jumped up ......if you can find any in stock that is. Is this temporary because of Covid?

 It wasn't that long ago when you could buy a VQ models kit or a Blackhorse kit for less than £100. Now you can't buy any less than £150! Even cheap trainers like the Seagull Jumper is £120!

 

Edited By Tony H on 09/09/2020 08:53:43

[Ron Gray]

This, and a number of other reasons, is why I’m glad Richard (Warbirds Replicas) has rejoined the fray.

[GrumpyGnome]

It's as much that as the disparity that gets me...... how can some shops charge £130 for a kit that is under £105 elsewhere....... and don't get me started on the Amazon markup!

Going back to the op, yes, things have gone up - an eflite artf that i got just before lockdown has gone up by almost 20%...

GG

[Flyer]

I think you'll find it is the exchange rate that has a lot to do with the prices. Most are priced in dollars, and people have to buy containers full of artf's well in advance. The exchange rate was very low a few months back, which could explain the difference now.

So now is a good time to support your UK 'KIT' manufacturers (ie not artf foam) as they will turn out the same price as an imported foamy. And, as a bonus, you will develop the skills to repair it when you have the usual bumps and dings.

All I need now is time to build

Ade

[Cuban8]

Tony H's mention of VQ and Blackhorse 'kits' surprised me for a moment and I had to check with both of those manufacturers' websites to see whether they'd actually gone into kit production (as I understand the term ' kit' to mean) and I'd missed something. No, their products are ready builts and yes, I do agree the price of many ARTFs have increased by a substantial amount. It does seem to depend on the model type and I find that smallish foamy models are still quite affordable if you're in the market for some quickly put together fun.

Exchange rate has played a part in rising prices but is by no means the only reason. Increasing labour costs in China and elsewhere are significant, a general contraction in the hobby world-wide has decreased volume sales and our younger people are still attached to the gaming world in the comfort of their homes, so very few sales to what was once a large sector of the market.

Proper kits, I think, will make a comeback (although not to the massive levels that we saw thirty or forty years ago) because in terms of production costs and time, the emergence of CAD coupled with laser and CNC cutting, I suspect that it's considerably cheaper to make a kit of bits with modern techniques and pack them in a box rather than employ staff to stick 'em together and then cover and decorate.

I see that a few of the Goldberg kits are in production again - they need to get their Super Chippy back on the market as my rather tired and well flown example (in its 25th year now and flown again last Sunday) always attracts enquiries and I'm sure their kit would sell very well again.

Room for the bigger companies and the small concerns as well - difficult to be certain with the way our hobby is going, but  just might be the shot in the arm it needs?

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 09/09/2020 09:45:54

[Nigel R]

C8 I think Richard of Warbirds has talked about the number of kits needed to sell to justify a design going to market. Relatively speaking it is quite small. But you are right, I would guess the availability of semi-pro laser cutting / CNC kit has allowed manufacture and distribution cost to be brought down. Can't escape the time and cost of development and debugging of the design though.

[ken anderson.]

a lot of things seem to have gone up in price.....more so house prices and haircuts up here in ne...1.land......all getting blamed on CV..

 

ken anderson...ne..1... CV dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 09/09/2020 10:03:14

[Tony H]

From what I have heard a large part of the price increase is the cost of balsa has gone up and shipping costs due to covid19, coupled with the exchange rate.

Also build kits have also gone up a fair bit due to the above. It costs almost the same to build a kit as it does to buy an ARTF if you take everything required into account......covering, glue, tanks etc....

[Masher]

 

 

Edited By Masher on 09/09/2020 11:30:00

[Cuban8]

Posted by Tony H on 09/09/2020 11:06:11:

From what I have heard a large part of the price increase is the cost of balsa has gone up and shipping costs due to covid19, coupled with the exchange rate.

Also build kits have also gone up a fair bit due to the above. It costs almost the same to build a kit as it does to buy an ARTF if you take everything required into account......covering, glue, tanks etc....

All very true Tony, in fact I'd say that building from a plan or short kit is considerably more expensive than an ARTF or good quality full kit. Depends on size of the model, the larger ARTFs that are typically sold for £500+ are I think more economical from a materials standpoint, but of course the cost of a decent engine and radio gear does drive the costs up beyond what many of us are able or willing to lavish on our hobby.

Saw my mate's Seagull Bearcat tearing up our club's airspace last Sunday - big quiet engine, one of the most impressive models that I've seen in ages - but well over a grand's worth of gear up there.

[Erfolg]

Cuban

I think your observation that building from a traditional kit will cost at least as much as a ARTF type model. I would go as far as to say it will probably cost you more. Particularly if all your bits and bobs are sourced from within the UK.

There are obvious issues, in that there are probably only about 40-50,000 aeromodellers in the UK. There annual spend on models is possibly quite small, when averaged over the years.

The pound has taken a pounding recently, although more recently recovering against both the Dollar and the Euro. With UK stability, many are predicting a strengthening, whilst others suggest it will become worthless. In short the future is not yet written.

I also agree with the others who have stated that events of Laser Cutting, with CAD files could revolutionise kit production costs, particularly if undertaken outside of the UK, EU, or the USA.

As it stands, ARTF models are pretty cheap, when the hours spent in manufacture are considered, shipping costs etc., are taken into account.

[kevin b]

I agree Erfolg.

However I do think that with regards to kit manufacture (not ARTF), we in this country should be able to compete with anyone regarding price.

One thing we have all learnt through lockdown, is the power of the internet with regards to commerce. Gone are the days of designing a model, making it into a kit and then trying to sell it to a distributor. By the time the kit got to the shop window the cost (to the builder) could be 4 times its manufacturing price. Now you can produce the kits, build a website and do your own marketing for not a huge amount of investment. You may notice that most of the American kit manufacturers are doing just that, as are one or two of our own popular designers. The best example I can give you is FliteTest. They not only cater for the kit buyers, but also people who want to scratch build their designs as well. Very clever marketing.

I myself am working on a project to recreate some of the old model kits (from defunct manufacturers) in part form including all the die / laser cut parts and any bespoke plastic mouldings that came with the original (I don't like the term "short kit" . When they are ready they will only be available through the internet and will be priced at "cost plus" rather than "retail less".

Watch this space !

Edited By kevin b on 09/09/2020 18:20:53

Edited By kevin b on 09/09/2020 18:21:15

Edited By kevin b on 09/09/2020 18:21:49

I keep trying to remove the winking smiley from the text. I don't know where it came from, but I can't get rid of it.

Mods, can you help ? 

Edited By kevin b on 09/09/2020 18:23:40

[i12fly]

Well put Kevin, good luck with the project, keep us posted

[brokenenglish]

Kevin, smileys and other similar stuff can be entered by combinations of characters. Selecting visually, as we normally do, isn't the only method.
You have unintentionally typed the pair of characters that give this smiley (could it be "close quotes / close brackets" for example). Formulate your sentence without that sequence of quotes and brackets, and the problem will go away.

[Geoff S]

I usually just put in an extra space after (in this case) the quotation marks then the smilet goes away. Also I delete the 'edit' messages each time I edit if I do more than one, then I don't look so indecisive

Geoff

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Erfolg on 09/09/2020 14:18:39:

There are obvious issues, in that there are probably only about 40-50,000 aeromodellers in the UK. There annual spend on models is possibly quite small, when averaged over the years.

Erfolg

There may only be 40-50,000 modellers in the UK, however there can't be many British kit manufacturers that don't have overseas sales. If you go into any public library in Australia or New Zealand you will find British R/C magazines, and they certainly used to be available on news stands in parts of the continent. This together with English being either the first or second language in large parts of the world gives our kit manufacturers a distinct advantage. Mail order being the norm may in fact benefit the cottage industry.

[leccyflyer]

It's not just kits that are expensive, compared to previous years, the "short kits" and plan packs are often coming across as very expensive, for what you get.

When the early, CNC cut kits came out some of them were grossly underpriced and pretty much doomed to commercial failure. The pricing just wasn't right and gauging the size of the market must have had a lot to do with that.

The most obvious was when Balsacraft took on Pete Nicholson's Model Designs range and took what had been a plan pack with a few sheets of CNC cut parts, a cowl and canopy and turned them intro very comprehensive kits with all of the wood, accessories, glossy box, manual, full size rolled plan. They sold for about £70 at the time IIRC, but eventually ended up being sold off at the ridiculuous price of £49.99. I believe that they were underpriced, ahead of their time, excellent models and the kits regularly go for over £100 on eBay these days -and are still good value.

Now, you can pay £200 for a short kit of a "club-sized" model and even more for a plan pack of a larger model. ARTFs and RTFs have also increased in price over recent years with typical 1.1m span foamies that were selling for just over the £100 mark now coming in at nearly double that. Flair Scout kits, if you can get them, are also usually more than £200 to buy..

[Doctor Chinnery]

For club flying at affordable prices trad' British kits are out there if you look, and generally much tougher ( an axe I keep grinding ) also they fly at least as well as the prebuilt imported stuff. Just a couple of examples: Chris Foss ( whom God preserve of Sussex ) and Galaxy of E.Anglia.

[Cuban8]

Flair models................now there is a sad story of a once powerful force in our hobby some thirty years ago that's slid into obscurity. **LINK**

Once Dudley Pattison parted company with the firm it never really recovered IMHO **LINK**

They've been 'restructuring' their business for ages now, with AFAIK no progress as towards boxes in shops (or on-line). We were talking about their products on the field last Sunday and a few of us came up with names from the past. The much lamented Tiger Moth and Brisfit kits along with the Scouts and electric sports planes (Flair Volture if memory serves). Perhaps they should sell their kit rights to someone who can make a go of them? Can you imagine the scramble for a new laser cut Puppeteer kit? I can think of one or two concerns that could make a go of them given the will - I'd be in the market for their products.

BTW, from the depths of memory I mentioned my Flair Dara that was given to me, but TBH I never had the bottle to fly it and passed it on to someone a little more adventurous and more nimble fingered.

[ken anderson.]

what was the last "uk kit" you bought mine was during lockdown...oowah …from IAD Designs, a laser cut flying wing...…….or did you buy a kit from a foreign manufacturer....supplier.

Ken anderson...ne..1..uk kit dept.

[DaveyP]

@ Ken Anderson, does anyone still fly on the Town Moor ?

Davey P : exiled geordie

[ken anderson.]

hello Davey, yes there are still a number of flyers at the town moor...how many I don't know.one of the lads who is a member of our club BVRMC has started to cut the grass take off/landing area for them.

ken anderson...ne..1..town moor dept.

[leccyflyer]

Last UK kit - Warbirds Replicas Spitfire IX kit bought through this forum during lockdown. Got a P-51B on order from Richard too. Very impressed with the quality of the kit, but holding off starting the build for a wee while yet.

[David Davis]

Posted by ken anderson. on 10/09/2020 09:32:34:

what was the last "uk kit" you bought mine was during lockdown...oowah …from IAD Designs, a laser cut flying wing...…….or did you buy a kit from a foreign manufacturer....supplier.

Ken anderson...ne..1..uk kit dept.

A Warbirds Replica Hurricane was the last kit I bought from a UK supplier, and as I was the one who did more than anybody else to bang the drum to get a batch of kits built, I'm afraid to say that I haven't even started it. I don't consider myself quite ready yet for a low wing model with retracts.

I also bought a short kit of the Big Guff which I have built and flown from Laser Design Services in the USA. It took me fourteen months to build it but it has been flown. I paid $135 US for it. It's current price is $179.

**LINK**

I've just taken delivery of a Super Kaos Junior short kit from Eureka Aircraft of Arkansas. I wanted this kit in order to use my OS 40 V rear exhaust engine. I will run the exhaust out on top of the fuselage.

**LINK**

I know that Ken asked for UK kits but neither of these two models was available in the UK. Does it help if I say that the proprietor of Laser Design Services comes from Portsmouth!

[Cuban8]

Posted by ken anderson. on 10/09/2020 09:32:34:

what was the last "uk kit" you bought mine was during lockdown...oowah …from IAD Designs, a laser cut flying wing...…….or did you buy a kit from a foreign manufacturer....supplier.

Ken anderson...ne..1..uk kit dept.

I suppose it qualifies, but my ongoing project at the moment and the last that I bought last year, is a Dennis Bryant Chipmunk. UK Sarik plans and laser cut bits and pieces. Almost finished but on the back burner at the moment because of important but far less interesting projects around the house!