Starter for smaller engines

[Matt Carlton]

Evening chaps.

Some years ago, I seem to remember there being electric starters available for smaller (.10-.25) size engines. Does anyone know if there are any on the market now?

I did see a turned starter attachment to fit onto an old Speed 700 but I lack the equipment or skill for that.

I know. I should probably 'go electric' but still.

[Alan Gorham_]

Or you could just learn to flick start all your engines and then you don't need any starter device or battery to power it?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Not aware of small engine starters Matt, always been a flicker myself.

However, plenty clubmates use the common or garden starters seemingly without issues I've noticed.

[John Stainforth]

If hand starting, it's best to use a chicken stick (or any old stick) rather than your finger!

[Matt Carlton]

I suppose that's the sensible option. Always did flick start in my youth but years of forestry have left my hands a bit naff on cold days. Thick old gardening glove might be the answer.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

The danger with using a starter on a small engine is damaging the con rod or other engine parts if you get an inadvertant hydraulic lock. If you do use one, give it a couple of flicks over compression prior to every starting attempt.

Hand starting, as suggested by Alan is kindest on the engine but potentially less so on the fingers. Rubber finger stalls are available as are "chicken sticks". I've been using a little .20 OS four stroke engine regularly recently and always flick start it.  Perhaps it's a little reckless but I use just fingers for this engine but it's small enough that a fingertip or two on the face of the blade gives enough grip.

Especially with APC props, do sand the sharp flashes from their edges - preferably while balancing them.

Edit: Coo - lots of people with the same sort of advice posting around the same time!

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 03/01/2021 21:00:48

[J D 8]

The leverage with a chicken stick and the turn of the wrist gives a better flick than just a finger I find. Mine is just a finger stall on the handle of a short screwdriver.

[John Wagg]

I use an old windscreen wiper motor with a standard size starter rubber cone. Spins fast but with little torque.

Great for worn out old engines.

I have damaged a conrod on a 30 size engine with a normal size starter.

[Bustergrunt]

I have a ‘Hornet’ starter for use on my smaller engines, never bust one yet....as long as you’re careful not to hydraulic lock then your safe

[Bustergrunt]

http://sullivanproducts.com/product/s598-hornet-starter/

[Alan Gorham_]

It most definitely is not "better" to use a chicken stick when staring by hand. They give you absolutely no feedback or feel about the engine: whether it is dry or flooded.

It is perfectly safe to wear a riggers glove. Once you have choked and/or primed the engine and flicked it over a couple of times to distribute the prime, you then connect the glow. Grasp the prop with your gloved hand and very gently turn the prop through TDC. If it is ready to start then the prop will kick slightly as the mixture fires in the cylinder. You can then release the prop and go for a first flick start.

If you have overdone the prime, then the kick will be more violent, indicating that the engine is very wet. It's possible in this case to flick the engine backwards and get a start but it might take a few flicks to burn off the excess fuel and keep running.

If you haven't primed enough then there won't be any kick.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[J D 8]

Most battery screwdrivers do not turn all that fast, a better option may be a battery Dremel or dremel type driver that turn faster with less torque than a electric driver.

I do at times use a standard starter on smaller engines, mostly 15's and as others say a couple of finger turns to ensure no lock and then go, not pressing the cup to hard on the spinner so if for some reason to much fuel is drawn in an it locks the cup just slips on the spinner..

1cc and under it is just finger and I place my finger on the face of the blade pressing to use friction to give the prop a flick. This keeps the finger away from the trailing edge of the blade. This saves ones finger from a rap if engine does a backfire as happens with small diesels when the compression and or fuel mix is wrong.

[Jason Channing]

Chicken stick every time, works very well. that or a sullivan hi torque starter.

[Engine Doctor]

I have a COX starter motor that is basically a 600 type brushed 12 volt motor in a case with a button and a starter cone fitted. Great for starting them them in the correct rotation as any Cox user will know. Apart from that I always hand start small engines especially diesels . I don't think any small starter motors are available these days and are unlikely to be as we seem to be drawn inexorably towards electric power.  I have seen many engines badly damaged by using electric starters including broken crankshafts and bent con-rods usually due to being flooded .So stick with a flick if possible and use a chicken finger (Thick rubber cover) to protect you . It is I think justified to use a starter motor on some of the engines like ASP/SC four-strokes that suffer from poor compression as little damage is likely to occur and they can be almost impossible to start by hand  .

Edited By Engine Doctor on 04/01/2021 11:06:15

[Peter Christy]

The OP doesn't define what he means by "small"! To me "small" means less than 1cc. I've never had a problem with Cox engines using the spring start, but I do have a 0.8cc diesel that is an absolute horror to get started!

Chicken sticks and riggers gloves are far too clumsy for 6" props. In the past I have resorted to using a full size starter on it to get it going, having made sure beforehand that the crankcase is dry-ish to avoid hydraulic locks!

Interestingly, it is most difficult to start on "easy-start" diesel mixes, like D-1000! It starts much more easily on D-3000, but that is not recommended for plain bearing engines. I've compromised on D-2000, on which it is still extremely difficult to get going.

Strange, because I have this engines "bigger brothers" from the same manufacturer, and they are quit easy to flick start - very benign, although they too do not like D-1000!

So yes, a small starter based on a buggy motor or similar sounds good to me!

--

Pete

[Matt Carlton]

To be fair, I did state 0.10 to 0.25 size engines 🙂

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I will admit to having used a starter on anything down to a .10 2 stroke on occasions but the simple precaution of flicking the engine over compression a couple of times before using it has meant that I have (touch wood) never damaged one. I cringe when I see starters ripping chunks out of clubmates' spinners when they just charge in with starters on flooded engines.

I do like to hand start where appropriate and a well set up engine with decent compression should start very easily with the right priming. On larger engines, the reverse flick is the easiest and safest hand starting technique but for small engines, from experience I believe that a good flick actually starts an engine better than a starter motor - my theory is that there is actually more velocity applied.

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 04/01/2021 13:09:55

[J D 8]

The problem with the so called "easy start" D1000 is the 28% castor oil [ glue ] content which probably helps with the sealing of well worn old cast iron piston/liner engines along with a higher ether content 35% to get them going. but is of little help to well fitting newer types.

For more modern engines like PAW's I find they start and run much better on D2000 24% caster and less ether £30% which means more of the actual fuel the Kerosene 43.7 % that provides the grunt.

D3000 is recommended for high performance high reving ball race types and has 20% castor and 30% ether and 47.5 % kerosene. The remaining small amounts in all three is isopropyl nitrate a cetane booster.

 Peter , I recon a run in plain bearing engine that is not expected to reach high revs [over 10,000 ] will be fine on D3000 which has just 4% less oil than the D2000.

Edited By J D 8 on 04/01/2021 15:26:18

Edited By J D 8 on 04/01/2021 15:27:56

[Peter Christy]

Posted by Matt Carlton on 04/01/2021 12:53:40:

To be fair, I did state 0.10 to 0.25 size engines 🙂

Ooops! My bad!

JD8: Yes, I did run my PAW 1.49s on D-3000 for some time before being warned off it, because of the lower oil content. But they loved it! I switched to D-2000, and they ran OK on that, but never quite like they did on D-3000!

And we do run plain bearing glow engines on around 18% oil, and many of the go well over 10,000 RPM. Its a shame no-one seems to make diesel with synthetic oil. If they do, its not generally available.

--

Pete

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Matt Carlton on 03/01/2021 20:39:49:

Evening chaps.

Some years ago, I seem to remember there being electric starters available for smaller (.10-.25) size engines. Does anyone know if there are any on the market now?

I did see a turned starter attachment to fit onto an old Speed 700 but I lack the equipment or skill for that.

I know. I should probably 'go electric' but still.

Hi Matt, I have one as you describe and its an Astroflight 1/2A starter like this one: Astro Flight 1/2A Mini Starter

Picture from Worthpoint:

I think it is based around a Mabuchi RS540/550 motor.

If you were to make one, I suggest you attach a battery pack directly to the motor to avoid getting wires tangled in the prop or getting caught on the model.
 

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 04/01/2021 22:35:24

[Ben B]

The one and only thing I made with a lathe was a starter cup for small motors. Based around a 540 motor it took me ages to finish on the school lathe. Now I'd likely just 3d print one.... Instead of a proper rubber cup I just used a short section of silicon tubing inside the cup.

[cymaz]

 

 

I made this video. Works for me every time.

I also run the engine dry of fuel and put some oil into the carb for the bearings after every days flying.

Edited By cymaz on 05/01/2021 06:42:50

[Doug Campbell]

Posted by Peter Christy on 04/01/2021 19:23:32:

Posted by Matt Carlton on 04/01/2021 12:53:40:

To be fair, I did state 0.10 to 0.25 size engines 🙂

Ooops! My bad!

JD8: Yes, I did run my PAW 1.49s on D-3000 for some time before being warned off it, because of the lower oil content. But they loved it! I switched to D-2000, and they ran OK on that, but never quite like they did on D-3000!

And we do run plain bearing glow engines on around 18% oil, and many of the go well over 10,000 RPM. Its a shame no-one seems to make diesel with synthetic oil. If they do, its not generally available.

--

Pete

Weston U.K. sell synthetic oil based diesel fuel.

[J D 8]

Thanks for the info Doug, Would be nice to have diesels as clean as my glows which have run on synthetic for many years. Cheers, John.