How complicated?

[Ben B]

I know some people make a sport of knocking Spektrum but I must say I've never had any issues at all with them.

But by 'eck they don't half make standing up for them hard.

I just bought a new srxl2 microreceiver for an upcoming quadcopter build. I wanted to see if there was a new firmware available. Unfortunately to do this I have to register my receiver and to do this I have to enter the serial number for the receiver. Is it printed on the packet? Nope. Is it included on a slip of paper in the box? No. Did they just put a sticker on the box saying which firmware it's got? No. Do they just let you see online what updates are available without registering the device? No.

So I now have to use a Spektrum receiver programmer (USB to servo connector) to program it except to that I have to connect a servo to ZH1.5mm connector adapter to connect to the receiver. Except the new receiver has direct solder holes and most people flying quads will just use that. So I now have to solder on a temporary ZH1.5mm socket. Except it transpires Spektrum have used the same ZH1.5mm connector on a few different quadcopter receivers historically and they've changed the pinout so I now have to hackup a Spektrum servo to ZH1.5mm connector adapter (which means I can't use it on my legacy receivers).

All in order to find there isn't a firmware update after all.

All sounds very sensible!!!

[Peter Miller]

Ah! Well that is modern electronics created by electronics experts.

Electronic experts are an alien race who just cannot understand human beings.

The idea that a creature needs logical and detailed information just does not enter their carapace or where ever they store what is laughingly called their brains.

[J D 8]

That is spot on Peter.

[Simon Chaddock]

The sad part it it is logical to them. Its just they have different logic "go/no" which works fine on a micro chip.

[PatMc]

Posted by Peter Miller on 17/01/2021 14:32:46:

Ah! Well that is modern electronics created by electronics experts.

Electronic experts are an alien race who just cannot understand human beings.

The idea that a creature needs logical and detailed information just does not enter their carapace or where ever they store what is laughingly called their brains.

But if it wasn't for what is laughingly called the electronics experts' brains we wouldn't be be having this virtual conversation.

[kc]

I think what we are complaining about here is not " experts" but the people who produce the stuff who are NOT expert enough to produce easily usable products!

[PatMc]

No, Peter specifically mentioned "electronics experts".

[Jon H]

I dont quite understand this software updating thing. My Futaba FF6, FF9, T8J and spekky dx6i all have the same software they did when i bought them. It worked then, and it works now. Why mess with it? Admittedly, i dont think any of those radios can be updated, but again..they work, leave them alone!

If its anything like my phone or my computer updates tend to do nothing more than break something that used to work fine. Whenever i buy a new tx, anything that requires updates or registration or logging in of any kind will be removed from consideration on the spot.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 17/01/2021 16:40:22

[kc]

I would pay more for a Tx that could NOT be updated!  The last thing you need in RC is to find something has changed that you didn't expect - you might only find it once airborne!

My motto is " If it ain't broke don't  fix it"   and this has worked well for me on cars as well as RC planes.

Edited By kc on 17/01/2021 16:55:43

[Ben B]

I'm certainly not complaining about upgradable firmware. One of my previous Spektrum receivers was basically just a receiver when I bought it. Due to firmware upgrades it could report RSSI back to my Tx through telemetry and (more importantly) show the RSSI signal on the FPV screen. Really helpful and certainly worth the upgrade.

I just wish it was easier. Or at the very least wish they included yet another adapter. Forcing the end user to cut up and re-wire an old one (looking up the pin-out through various google searches) is just a bit much IMHO. Okay, including hardware is always going to come at a cost but for basically zero cost they could list firware updates so I could make a semi-educated guess an update was available.

Oh well, still like the receiver, just seems unecessarily difficult to do something fairly simple. It's a shame when you bind it can't display the Rx firmware version through telemetry. That would be kind of logical.

[Tim Flyer]

I totally agree software updates might be necessary on computers where they have to work with ever changing programs... but if all you are doing is trying to fly a plane with the same old controls it’s seems superfluous. The more lots of non core “unnecessary functions “ are added the more that is necessary. Increased complexity also increases risk of misuse and failure. I see some radios even boast of internet linking, maybe they can order a pizza wjhile flying a model 😊

[Peter Miller]

The trouble is complication for the sake of it.

I have just been given a new camera for review. It is sensational and totally amazing BUT the manual is 661 pages long...and yes, it is all in English. There four full pages of the ikons that can appear on the screen at the back

Luckily I remembered the manual from my first Canon SLR The instructions said "This camera has many features. You will only use one or two of them."

IT took me an evening to find how to set the ISO speed on the new one!!

Edited By Peter Miller on 17/01/2021 18:32:41

[Paul Johnson 4]

Hi Guys

Now I have worked in that trade for some years, quite a few actually. To qualify who makes it difficult you have to understand it's the hardware (the electronic engineer) who join all the bits together but it's the software engineers who programme them.

Question ; How do you know when a software engineer is finished?

You Yell STOP!!!

They then wander off muttering ' well I could have got it to....'

[Ronaldo]

I've been Spektrum user for 15+ years, then JR before that, and even earlier, RC gear some of you may never have even heard of. I have a Black DX9 and a DX20. So far I'm happy, no complaints, apart for the recall on my DX20 some 3 years ago. Since then my Spektrum Tx's, Rx's, have done all I've expected of them.

Remember when mobile, cell, car phones were first gaining popularity ? Why did we want one ? so we could phone and talk to people out side the home. Now they are becoming less of a phone, and more of a camera, mini PC to browse the internet, and chat on FB, Twitter, and much more. I admit I wouldn't be without my Smart Phone now, but I was constantly bombarded with invites to upgrade to the latest and greatest model which I didn't need, and at a cost. So I then cancled my contract, bought new smart phone from Argos that did everything I asked of it, and then got a monthly no contract gifgaf sim card. ..... No more pressure, and guess what, I can still talk to people, plus do other stuff.

I fear Tx's may be heading the same way, Constantly hinting to us that the latest and greatest all singing and dancing Tx with WiFi internet connection etc is what you need, but at a cost, and not just monetary, unfortunately as I've seen on other forums they include more technical complications that are still going through teething problems. Of course I have moved with the times and benefited from many of the upgrades of Spektrum Tx's and other brands. I love my DX9 and DX20 for it's user friendly programming, and updated the firmware as needed, but beyond that how far do we really want/need to go ?

But, .... yes to be fair, each to his own. Some genuinely love the more technical stuff and may call me a dinosaur, but I have learned the hard way with over 55 years of aeromodelling to 'keep it simple'. What do I want from my radio gear ? I want to just be able to pick it up with as little button pressing, program fiddling as possible which my present Spektrum gear does very well, and get my models into the air and have fun. So I will be sticking to my DX9 and DX20 for the foreseeable future.

[Peter Miller]

I have a DX7,one of the first in the country. It still works perfectly. No updates.

I also have a Hitec Aurora 9. I don't know if there are up dates and I have no intention of finding out. IT works. I ask no more!

[tigerman]

I agree with Jon .I have a Futaba J10 a DX6 and a DX8 ,I have never updated any of them and like Jon said they work when I brought them and the all still work fine know so why would I want to update them . I have also know some people that have up dated there Spektrum Transmitter and lost all the data .Another reason why I never update my transmitter

[Nigel R]

Posted by Ben B on 17/01/2021 17:30:15:

I'm certainly not complaining about upgradable firmware. One of my previous Spektrum receivers was basically just a receiver when I bought it. Due to firmware upgrades it could report RSSI back to my Tx through telemetry and (more importantly) show the RSSI signal on the FPV screen. Really helpful and certainly worth the upgrade.

Indeed.

Still, none so blind as will not see.

[Nigel R]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 17/01/2021 16:39:50:

I dont quite understand this software updating thing. My Futaba FF6, FF9, T8J and spekky dx6i all have the same software they did when i bought them. It worked then, and it works now.

No - you just don't see the problems with them, either because the issues are buried in a feature you don't use (delta mix on the DX6i?), or your particular use of the kit doesn't trigger them, or they are a seemingly random error that simply hasn't occurred. The perfect piece of hardware and the perfect piece of software, neither have or will exist.

Spektrum acknowledge this and provide updates for almost all of their kit.

Not every company does that.

[Jon H]

Posted by Nigel R on 18/01/2021 10:12:00:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 17/01/2021 16:39:50:

I dont quite understand this software updating thing. My Futaba FF6, FF9, T8J and spekky dx6i all have the same software they did when i bought them. It worked then, and it works now.

No - you just don't see the problems with them, either because the issues are buried in a feature you don't use (delta mix on the DX6i?), or your particular use of the kit doesn't trigger them, or they are a seemingly random error that simply hasn't occurred. The perfect piece of hardware and the perfect piece of software, neither have or will exist.

Spektrum acknowledge this and provide updates for almost all of their kit.

Not every company does that.

I see what you are saying but i just dont see it in practice. All of the tx's i mentioned have worked fine with only mechanical issues giving the 6i some troubles.

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Nigel R on 18/01/2021 10:12:00:

No - you just don't see the problems with them, either because the issues are buried in a feature you don't use (delta mix on the DX6i?), or your particular use of the kit doesn't trigger them, or they are a seemingly random error that simply hasn't occurred. The perfect piece of hardware and the perfect piece of software, neither have or will exist.

You know reading all these comments about how essential the updates are, I can' help wondering how we managed when our four channel transmitters had an on-off switch, two sticks and four trim levers.

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by Paul Johnson 4 on 17/01/2021 19:27:00:

Hi Guys

Now I have worked in that trade for some years, quite a few actually. To qualify who makes it difficult you have to understand it's the hardware (the electronic engineer) who join all the bits together but it's the software engineers who programme them.

Question ; How do you know when a software engineer is finished?

You Yell STOP!!!

They then wander off muttering ' well I could have got it to....'

 

Ah, but Paul, what about all the users who come crying 'where I worked before we could do X, Y and Z too', or the bright young managers who come along along demanding bleeding edge performance on a shoestring to make them look proactive? I always found software development to be user driven more often than hardware driven!

As for RC software, apart from the EU LBT changes my FrSky gear would work as well now as the day I bought my Taranis in 2014 with no updates.  However, I like exploring what is possible so I download the latest tweaks and install them as soon as the bugs are out. I like new toys too so I play with a lot of the hardware upgrades as they appear.

Truth is, over the last 6 months I've spent far more time on updating the radio for the sake of it than I have building and flying models.

Windows updates, I really don't want to go there on a family friendly forum!

Peter, when I had a simple 4 ch tx with manual trims and one rx which I swapped between models I spent a lot of time setting up models so that I didn't need MUCH trim lever waggling when changing from one model to another.  I had to select the right make or model of servo for each application, I had to put up with wheels dangling on fighters, mechanical mixers for deltas and all the other archaic practises that computer radios eliminated.  I for one am glad those days have gone!

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 18/01/2021 11:56:57

[Nigel R]

Posted by Peter Miller on 18/01/2021 11:37:56:

You know reading all these comments about how essential the updates are, I can' help wondering how we managed when our four channel transmitters had an on-off switch, two sticks and four trim levers.

a) sometimes updates are essential, that be when the functions you personally use are affected - and sometimes not.

b) You could buy a DX4e and return to that golden age? I must admit I cannot really take any complaints of "too complex" very seriously, when basic options exist, yet are not taken up.

 

Edited By Nigel R on 18/01/2021 14:00:44

[Nigel R]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 18/01/2021 11:11:44:

I see what you are saying but i just dont see it in practice. All of the tx's i mentioned have worked fine with only mechanical issues giving the 6i some troubles.

You've exactly made my point; you - personally - don't see the errors.

Doesn't mean they are not there.

I have some experience in software engineering and can say with absolute certainty that there are always bugs in software. In my current line of work we test rather more than any other to eliminate these bugs. Whether the bugs cause an issue in practice and normal use is a different question.

I can guarantee the software on our hobby grade TXs is not subject to the same level of scrutiny. So our favourite manufacturers have the following options - allow user updates when problems are found and fixed, or, pretend the problems are not there.

[Rich Griff]

The more complex something is, the more likely it is to go wrong. Trying to fix complex stuff can be a nightmare these days, is it hardware or software and htf dies dies system work.

A modern term, the waterfall effect, or was that just made up by a politician ?

I will be in need of some modern radio gear, but they will suffer from black wire corrosion just as much.

Me, low tech as much as possible. Low tech I can understand and fix.

Hi tech, you need to know all about the system, and I mean ALL ABOUT the SYSTEM.

Yeh cars have diagnostics, yeah right. The world is spherical.

[Rich Griff]

See what I mean, preductive text hah, how do you tame it off ?