Peter Jones 21 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I think this graph shows good news from Israel on the effectiveness of the Pfizer Covid vaccine. The green dots are admissions to hospital for people who have been vaccinated. The blue dots are people in the same age group not vaccinated. I only pass the info on, I am not for or against vaccination. But it might brighten some ones day. Maccabi is one of four private health care providers in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Good news is always appreciated, but statistics prove that statistics can prove anything. Before this descends into a political argument about what percentage of the area this particular government "controls" is included in its statistics can the mods please close this one down. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Rest assured that we're already watching it - in the spirit of allowing free speech it's being allowed to run but it WILL be closed if it becomes political. Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 26/01/2021 19:24:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCavity Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 26/01/2021 19:23:19: Rest assured that we're already watching it - in the spirit of allowing free speech it's being allowed to run but it WILL be closed if it becomes political. Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 26/01/2021 19:24:25 Absolutely the correct decision. Closing threads before they start? Where do you draw the line at that? Hopefully the stats on that chart yield some good news for the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Excellent start with the immunity program. The UK has done wonders on the roll out....and without sounding triumphalist we’ve done so much better than the US or Europe. I believe that Covid 19 is here to stay, as are other Covid strains such as the flu which comes around every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad taggart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Posted by kevin b on 26/01/2021 19:18:24: Good news is always appreciated, but statistics prove that statistics can prove anything. Before this descends into a political argument about what percentage of the area this particular government "controls" is included in its statistics can the mods please close this one down. Thank you. Good news is always appreciated, but statistics prove that statistics can prove anything. Okay where is the fault here - both groups tracking very well beforehand and then very different after ? A very powerful argument / fact and welcomed news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Well I'm very pro-vaccine and we had our Pfizer injections on 14th January with zero ill-effects. I haven't seen many people suffering with smallpox lately and that's totally down to vaccination and Jenner's work initially.. I recommend people listen to 'More or Less' on BBC R4. It really looks into statistical data thoroughly om all topics, though at the moment it's mostly about Covid. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Kulagin Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I am in a bit of a 'cleft stick'. I suffer adverse reaction to the 'flu' vaccine. I also have adverse reaction to prescription medicines, I think it is down to the 'fillers' used in some tablets. I long for freedom to enjoy my retirement. What do I do? There isn't sufficient reliable information available to enable me to make a 'safe' decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Michael, best to ask your doctor about what they think is best for you. A layman giving you information is as likely to give you duff gen as good gen and you won't know which it is. As far as I'm aware, it was the Pfizer vaccine that caused a couple of NHS staff who suffer from anaphalactic reaction to have a reaction to it. The answer seems to be that if you then need to have the AZ/Oxford vaccine and that has not had any reported problems - so far! This was reinforced by one of the leading doctors appearing on TV a couple of nights ago and saying just that. I suspect that you may find that information on the BBC News website somewhere. At the end of the day, there is always risk associated with everything we do. You may well find that the risk of being either killed, or injured, in a motor car accident will far exceed any risk from the Covid vaccine. We don't tend to worry about taking the car out to drive down to the flying field or a trip down the motor way - unless the weather forecast is bad. So, ask the doctors or think about the freedom you might forego! I've never bothered with the flu jab but I'll certainly be ready for my Covid jab which I'm assured by Boris I will get by 15th Feb! We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Posted by Peter Jenkins on 26/01/2021 23:44:59: Michael, best to ask your doctor about what they think is best for you. A layman giving you information is as likely to give you duff gen as good gen and you won't know which it is. As far as I'm aware, it was the Pfizer vaccine that caused a couple of NHS staff who suffer from anaphalactic reaction to have a reaction to it. The answer seems to be that if you then need to have the AZ/Oxford vaccine and that has not had any reported problems - so far! This was reinforced by one of the leading doctors appearing on TV a couple of nights ago and saying just that. I suspect that you may find that information on the BBC News website somewhere. At the end of the day, there is always risk associated with everything we do. You may well find that the risk of being either killed, or injured, in a motor car accident will far exceed any risk from the Covid vaccine. We don't tend to worry about taking the car out to drive down to the flying field or a trip down the motor way - unless the weather forecast is bad. So, ask the doctors or think about the freedom you might forego! I've never bothered with the flu jab but I'll certainly be ready for my Covid jab which I'm assured by Boris I will get by 15th Feb! We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Michael: I think the only medecine that's totally safe is a homeopathic one because they're so diluted they don't do anything (ref Ben Goldacre). I 've been having the 'flu jab every year it's been available to me and I've never had an alergic reaction to that or anything else, so I'm lucky. If you have any doubts (and yours seem reasonable) you need to discuss them with a professional and perhaps more than one. It's not the sort of thing well meaning amateurs can, or should, be helping you with. All I'd say is one of the side effects of Covid 19 is a bit terminal so it's well worth a serious consultation one on one. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Having walked away from two major motor accidents by pure luck and recovered from what was likely to be a serious and rare form of blood cancer again by chance the hospital I was at had a world expert in that particular form of the illness and prescribed a dramatic treatment that worked. As a result I judge I have used up my share of serendipity and being in the critical age group its a Covid vaccine for me.- tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Kulagin Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 My problem is, further, compounded by my surgery going in to lockdown. The doors are locked to passing 'traffic' If I can get answer to my phone call I can't get past the non trained receptionist. The surgery group has been taken over by an american health group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 How about speaking to your local friendly pharmacist if you can't get to see your doctor? They are as if not better trained than GPs in these matters and are much more accessible. With regards to the promising results from the Israel vaccine program, it's interesting to see that the blue dots appear to have levelled of at the same time that the green dots are reducing. Let's hope that this reflects a reduction in transmissibility as people are being vaccinated. An early sign of herd immunity? The world will be watching Israel who are leading the world with their vaccine program. Edited By Gary Manuel on 27/01/2021 10:41:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 No country has yet even nearly reached the prevalence needed for 'herd immunity' Gary - as far as I know. Israel's deaths per million head of population is 1/3 that of here, I think the amount of the UK which has had covid is currently under 10%. Herd immunity becomes a thing at around 60%. Above figures may be inaccurate but I believe the opening statement is true. The results as relate to vaccine effectiveness look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Michael- does your GP practice have an online consultation portal like eConsult? I'm a GP and the online portals are really helpful for this kind of query. It allows the problem to be looked at in a quieter moment. A GP with access to your medical record would be able to rapidly assess whether it's safe for you to have the Covid vaccine. Generally speaking the only concerns are if someone has had an anaphylactic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine. So it really depends on the nature of the adverse reaction to the flu vaccine. It sounds like you've still had it despite the adverse reactions so it sounds like it's not a severe reaction. There's never no risk but there's certainly the opposite of no risk from Covid!!! If they don't have an online / digital offering then a telephone consultation would likely do the trick. Before giving the vaccine we do discuss it anyway however a prolonged discussion or one that requires access to the medical record is inevitably going to be safer over the phone / online. Right, cup of tea finished, back to vaccinating!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Posted by Nigel R on 27/01/2021 10:55:41: No country has yet even nearly reached the prevalence needed for 'herd immunity' Gary - as far as I know. Israel's deaths per million head of population is 1/3 that of here, I think the amount of the UK which has had covid is currently under 10%. Herd immunity becomes a thing at around 60%. Above figures may be inaccurate but I believe the opening statement is true. The results as relate to vaccine effectiveness look good. I realise that proper herd immunity requires 60-80%, but it doesn't suddenly "kick in" and become absolute. It's a gradual process and being a natural optimist, I'm hoping it begins to show the first signs at 20% or whatever Israel are at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 You can see how much of a thing it is from a standard infection model - SEIR model of covid the above model is prepopulated with approximate known values for covid what you can see is that herd immunity is not particularly gradual at all - there is almost no change in infection rate until very near the end of the epidemic period My point about the UK / Israel comparison is that Israel are more like 3%, not 20%. Edited By Nigel R on 27/01/2021 11:12:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Israel are currently at 47.9%, not 3% according to THIS. The point I'm making is that we are all looking for answers to the REALLY BIG question - does vaccination stop transmission of the virus. i.e. Does it prevent a vaccinated person still act as a carrier of the disease and infecting people who have not been vaccinated? If the answer is Yes, then our troubles are over and I'm hopeful that that is what the blue dots represent in the graph. If the answer is No, then we still have a way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Pascal Soriot, the AstraZeneca's chief said yesterday that the UK was on course to administer 28-30 million people within weeks, meaning that he believed everyone aged over 50 will be inoculated by March (about half the total population). He also said that they would comfortably hit the target of vaccinating the most vulnerable by mid February. More good news. (good news department) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Ten years ago I caught the swine flu, after a week of suffering it went very bad and ended up in the hospital ICU for ten days. It was hell, unable to get enough oxygen and awful pain from I think organs starting to fail. Later the Doc said it was a skin of the teeth job and had I not been a fit non smoker with no underlying health issues I would not have made it. Covid looks very similar We all have to die sometime but I very much hope that when my turn comes it will not be like that. Waiting for my vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hall 9 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Pleased to hear that you recovered from the swine flu. At the moment, we (wife & I) are trying to stay well away from all others. The realisation that, if we were to fall ill and need hospitalisation, they may not be able to help due to being overrun is scary. Whilst being confined to home, the thought crossed my mind that life is short and we should do the best with it whilst we have it... to that end, I figured that I might buy the very expensive moulded carbon fibre competition glider that I have so desired. But.. there is a chance that I might not survive to a post vaccinated world, so it will have to wait a little longer... Waiting for my vaccine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Hi David , I too been thinking of purchasing one of them much would like to have models but mostly would like to fly the ones I have. Cheers, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I,m proud to say my son Jordan Barrett was one of the researchers for the AZ vaccine at the Jenner inst in Oxford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Posted by Gary Manuel on 27/01/2021 11:36:25: Israel are currently at 47.9%, not 3% according to THIS. The point I'm making is that we are all looking for answers to the REALLY BIG question - does vaccination stop transmission of the virus. i.e. Does it prevent a vaccinated person still act as a carrier of the disease and infecting people who have not been vaccinated? If the answer is Yes, then our troubles are over and I'm hopeful that that is what the blue dots represent in the graph. If the answer is No, then we still have a way to go. Sorry Gary, misunderstanding on my part as I thought herd immunity referred to immunity acquired during normal infection, as opposed to vaccination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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