Christopher Wolfe Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Well, is the dream of all electric powered modellers about to come true? I heard about this on the ABC (Australian) news yesterday and it looks promising. By adding a teaspoon of sugar to a LiS battery the end result is a lighter battery with up to five times the storage capacity of the same weight LiPo. Looks promising and quite proud that this was developed here in the Land Down Under. https://newatlas.com/energy/sugar-doped-lithium-sulfur-battery-capacity/ chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Add it to the list… ? https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1188429-Some-company-announces-groundbreaking-new-battery-again There is a story like this roughly every other week with a different group of researchers claiming a breakthrough, but they are always “early results” and almost always focus on one specific characteristic I.e. capacity increase, cycle life increase, better charge rate etc. The problem is to make a battery that is better in all respects (or at least as good as the current chemistries in the areas that aren’t improved) is exceptionally hard, hence the reason we are still likely to be using variants on li-ion for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme White Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Cynic inside me says they just want their Elon investment. All these new technologies are still a fair way off that's if they will ever be feasible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Sodium Ion batteries might be the way forward https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology-news/under-skin-get-ready-sea-change-ev-battery-technology and the company that makes batteries for Tesla and VW plans to start manufacture of EV Sodium Ion batteries in 2023, https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/catls-new-sodium-ion-battery-help-ease-lithium-shortages-2021-08-03/ as demand for Lithium will out strip supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I hate to think of the safety considerations with 5 times the energy density of a LiPo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I was in the battery industry for 16 years and I know these stories are always just a way of begging for investment because it takes a lot of money to turn a laboratory development into a commercial product. It took a giant like Sony to commercialise the lithium ion battery back in the 90s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David perry 1 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 On 20/09/2021 at 20:54, Simon Chaddock said: I hate to think of the safety considerations with 5 times the energy density of a LiPo. It does rather beg questions of safety doesnt it, but i suppose five times the density doesnt necessarily mean five time the energy on the bench, just a battery a 5th the size and the same energy. Presumably that would enable them to be better protected and arguably safer. Im never too nervous about my phone or ipad but i keep and charge my lipos outside. Maybe that will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I used to safety test an early development of primary lithium sulphur batteries and believe me they were explosive if over discharged. I ruined an environmental chamber in one test. The test area was immediately below the MD office and I used to regularly wake him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Over the years there have been a lot of " miraculous break throughs" in battery technology but where are they. Believe it when you can buy one and see if it really lives up to the claims. The sceptic in me reckons it's a carrot being used by a group or a wise guy to get investment for an idea ? When it finally comes the break through in battery technology will be very hush hush until its tried tested and patented up to the eyeballs then snapped up by the military . Remember the brilliant "break throughs" on BBC s Tomorrow's World most were never seen again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Engine Doctor said: Over the years there have been a lot of " miraculous break throughs" in battery technology but where are they. Have a look at the current generation of lithium based batteries - that's where they are. Previously it was NiCd, followed by NiMh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 51 minutes ago, PatMc said: Have a look at the current generation of lithium based batteries - that's where they are. Previously it was NiCd, followed by NiMh. Agreed, but I think his point was that Lipos have been around a long time now - since the mid/late 90s - and the Lithium ion family as a whole is even older than that. 25 years on they remain the best available chemistry we have in terms of energy density, showing just how hard it is to develop improved commercial battery technologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) But before NiCd the rechargeable options were extremely limited beyond lead acid except some very expensive versions of alkaline cells. In practical terms, for the vast majority of people, rechargeable cells were limited to versions of 19th century technology. Most battery powered consumer items used lead acid primary cells well into the 3rd quarter of the 20th century when alkaline primary cells started to become produced economically. In a nutshell a century of glacial paced improvements to battery technology followed by a series of " miraculous break throughs" in battery technology since around the 1970's & these have been at ever increasing pace largely driven by, or spin offs from, the aero-space industry. Edited March 1, 2022 by PatMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) they are speculating this fire could have started in one of the electric cars on board batteries... ☠️ ken anderson...ne...1...expensive loss dept. Edited March 2, 2022 by ken anderson. link didn't work due to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Then again, if you read Wikipedia's item about the sinking of the Felicity Ace, it states that, despite media stories, it is unproven that an electric vehicle battery was the cause of the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 On 01/03/2022 at 12:55, PatMc said: But before NiCd the rechargeable options were extremely limited beyond lead acid except some very expensive versions of alkaline cells. In practical terms, for the vast majority of people, rechargeable cells were limited to versions of 19th century technology. Most battery powered consumer items used lead acid primary cells well into the 3rd quarter of the 20th century when alkaline primary cells started to become produced economically. In a nutshell a century of glacial paced improvements to battery technology followed by a series of " miraculous break throughs" in battery technology since around the 1970's & these have been at ever increasing pace largely driven by, or spin offs from, the aero-space industry. That may be, but the main push was and is from the telecommunications market. Personal communication, coupled with the internet seems to be the be-all and end-all these days. The 20th century will be remembered for the internal combustion engine. The 21st century will probably be remembered for electronics technology (or the end of the world). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 37 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: Then again, if you read Wikipedia's item about the sinking of the Felicity Ace, it states that, despite media stories, it is unproven that an electric vehicle battery was the cause of the fire. Arrrrrrr, but given Wikipedia edit policy, in the short term, fake news can exist. Answer will be, where started, fuel source for fire? Standard question, standard answer. But, as you say, batteries don’t normally self ignite when just standing, but then again, new batteries, in new machines, are less to be trusted. But, I bet the fire was in the cargo, for no other reason, the crew wander round the ship, but have no need or reason to go near the cargo. Pity, I would look right nice sticking out of a Porsche. Big one, rear wheel drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hilton Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Cordless tools have pushed battery technology over the years as well as mobile phones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, Don Fry said: Pity, I would look right nice sticking out of a Porsche. Big one, rear wheel drive. What colour, burnt orange ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, kevin b said: What colour, burnt orange ? Morris 1000 grey would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Don Fry said: Morris 1000 grey would do. Which one ? I remember painting them and over the years there were many different variations. Couldn't find a grumpy old man smiley, so this will have to do. Edited March 2, 2022 by kevin b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 2 hours ago, kevin b said: That may be, but the main push was and is from the telecommunications market. Personal communication, coupled with the internet seems to be the be-all and end-all these days. The 20th century will be remembered for the internal combustion engine. The 21st century will probably be remembered for electronics technology (or the end of the world). The development of the telecom market, including personal comms, from mid 1970's was largely a spin off from the aerospace industry. But the topic I was commenting on was the periodic breakthroughs & increased pace of development of battery technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Battery technology has greatly advanced since the days when we used to charge 2v lead acid accumulators that were used for the valve heaters of the radios our customers used during and for a time after the war - many people only had gas lighting in our town. However, I can't help feeling the current astonishing break throughs which seem to figure in the news from time to time are similar to those claiming nuclear fusion is just around the corner - the 10 year wait seems to be a constant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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