Old diesels

[leccyflyer]

A few months ago a pal of mine, Rob, who isn't a modeller, was having a clear out and was going to take some old model diesel engines from his younger days to the tip. I said that was a shame and he said I could have them. They have last been run over 60 years ago in the Netherlands, have been well used, in control line models and have some lovely alloy spinners and vintage nylon and a wooden prop, plus a matching aluminium engine mount.

 

There's a pair of Webra 1.5cc diesels, one with no needle valve assembly and a rather nice ETA 15 diesel with a blue anodised head, rear venturi and black nylon scratchplate. I think I'm going to put them in a small display frame and put them on the wall, as I don't use diesels anymore and they don;t have silencers or throttles -open port diesels wouldn't be very welcome at my club fields. I suppose it might be nice to give them a run before consigning them to display but I doubt that they will fly again. I didn't have a lot of success with CL in my teens and I reckon I'd fall over after two circuits now,  Nice things to look at though. 😎

[J D 8]

Nice looking engines, bet they would do well on the E bay if your inclined.

[leccyflyer]

I expect so, but they aren't for sale. I put the piccies up online because I thought they might be of interest, given their age,  and have already had someone from the USA wanting to buy them, after just a couple of hours.

[J D 8]

I have a few oldies glow and diesel open exhaust and run them in the test stand now and then just because.😀

[David Davis]

I used to have an ETA 15 as a youth. I saved up my paper round money for it and installed it in an FAI team racer of my own design. It wasn't outstandingly successful but it flew. Mine was the early version with a red anodised prop driver but mine had faded to pink. The crankshaft broke. Apparently that was quite a common fault on the early ones. I sent it back to the factory where a new crankshaft was installed with a prop diriver like the one in your pictures leccyflyer. I can't remember what happened to it but I don't have it anymore.

 

Generic picture of an early ETA 15 below.

 

[Jon H]

I dont think you should apologise for not wanting to fly them.

 

Laser made some 4 stroke diesels and i sold one to a chap in the US. Some time later i got a call from him asking about something or other and i asked him how the diesel was going, had he flown it etc. He said it was running well, he was very pleased with it but it had never flown and never would. A bit confused, i asked why and it turns out he and some of his flying buddies are former railway locomotive engineers and recall the early days of diesel loco's on the US network. So they fly a bit in the morning, and when its time to have some lunch they fire up the laser diesel and just enjoy the sound and smell with their lunch, just enjoying the nostalgia with their grub and shooting the breeze about the old days. Then its back to flying again. He is using the engine and enjoying the engine so who is to say its wrong?

 

So even if you whip these out of their glass case twice a year and have a nostalgic diesel run up session i cant see any issue with that. It will also keep the engines oiled and in good condition so they hang on to their value should you wish to sell in the future. JD8 and i both do it, although some of my diesels are set to fly eventually. 

 

If you are going to run them this way i would recommend you check out modelshop leeds and their model technics branded diesel fuel. This no longer uses castor, or at least they use a processed klotz benol castor that will not go gummy. i am not sure it even is castor at all, i think its a marketing thing, but whatever the oil actually is PAW are recommending it so it should be good and it should mean that your engines will not set solid due to castor if run infrequently. 

[leccyflyer]

Thanks for the advice Jon, that's all appreciated and taken in. I have a couple of pals who do the engine running for fun thing and it would be nice to be able to report back that these had run again, more than half-a-century since they last ran. Funnily enough I ordered some unrelated bits from Leeds Model Shop on Tuesday and even had a can of their Model Technics 1000 in my cart, then thought that I'd need to get diesel compatible fuel tubing and tank etc and I've got so many other things going on that I'd leave it for now.

 

I do also have a couple of NIB PAW diesels, which are RC capable and also have silencers. My idea was to finally get a KK Mini Super off the ground and manage more than 10 seconds of KK Outlaw flying, to exorcize the demon of not being able to do that 50 years ago. I have a kit and a plan and quite liked the idea of building two fuselages for each - one electric, which I know I can make work and fly at my local site and one as per original for the diesel, which won't get flown as regularly. They are both in the project list. 🙂

[J D 8]

       Couple of old glows getting a run last year. Cox Thimble drone and Testors McCOY 049. So much noise from such small motors. 

[Engine Doctor]

Glad to hear the " Honourable Oily Hand Society"  amongst us are alive and kicking even USA.

😉 For the younger and purely glow and electric flyers the HOHS are diesel power enthusiasts .

We love the smell of diesel in the morning .

Edited February 10, 2023 by Engine Doctor

[leccyflyer]

Used to love the wee Cox .049s and still have a couple. I did finally exorcize the demon of my Dodo/Emu- capable Cox .049 powered Stuka by using one of these lovely little motors to power an RCM&E Little Mo free plan build many years later. That mee-meee-meeeeeeeee- meeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!  engine note signalled a couple of minutes of hanging on for dear life, followed by a wonderfully stable and well behaved glide to a smooth landing. Little Mo is now powered by a Typhoon-6 brushless outrunner.

 

Never managed to get the motor in the Cox Stuka run for more than a couple of minutes, most efforts were met with a burb and then another start attempt. Didn't know about high nitro content fuel then, though, to be fair, Little Mo's engine ran quite happily on 5% nitro fuel.

 

There is something special about model diesel engines though - no starting battery needed, they did at least start and keep running, my early attempts used PAW 1.49 and 2.49 diesels, both in control line and my unsuccessful ear;y foray into single channel RC. The PAW 2.49 ended up having a marine conversion head fitted and did see a small degree of success in a KK Vosper RAF Air Sea Rescue Launch.

[Jon H]

Although the exhaust note of an open port diesel is 'crisp' when close up, they arent normally too bad at a distance. Also in the case of a fixed throttle example they will only run for what, 2 minutes? before they run out of fuel and gently glide down. A chap at my club has a single channel model with a mills in it, flys lovely and his landings are rather impressive considering he only has rudder available. Its all in the trim i guess. In any case, i doubt a climb a glider type flight with an open port will cause too much annoyance to the natives. 

 

I need to get my Vic Smeed Ballerina built soon with its redfin .5, and find a home for my other engines. 2x Dc Sabres, an AM10, PAW 149, 249 and 60 (the big 60). Its doubtful they will all be in models at the same time but they will all fly at some point, although the 249 PAW and one of the sabres need a little work first. 

 

By the look of the replies so far we should change this to the engine nostalgia thread. 

[J D 8]

          My Mills 75 Veron Cardinal doing its thing, mostly on its own and just steered back to base on the glide.

[Engine Doctor]

Myself and a  few club mates  occasionally have a diesel day at the field with radio and contol line models . My Frog 45 from a Ben Buckle plan and BB Taylorcraft both Frog 150 powered and 2 channel . Loads of fun .

[Rich Griff]

Since Cox 049 has been mentioned, RC "carbs" are available these days along with suitable silencers.

 

Cox 049's can be "diesel ised" and have been for some time now.

 

Like the small Cox powered plane, just about to make a Cox sharkface r, e and t 3 channel. If that goes to plan, an a 4 channel one will follow.

 

Back to diesels, heavenly fuel smell.....exhaust smoke stings your eyes...all good fun.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Rich Griff

[Tim Hooper]

I've been mucking about with old diesels for a couple of years now.

 

Although, I'm primarily electric powered, there really is something special about starting up a temperamental old engine, and persuading it to drag a suitable model through the skies for a few minutes on a sunny day.

 

All my flying diesels have RC carbs to make life easier - including trying to fabricate an air valve for a DC Merlin, but that's work-in-progress.

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

[Martin_K]

My motivation for getting into aero modelling was the idea of resurrecting an ancient control line model. That didn't happen as there is nowhere I could fly control line. While investigating I did start the engine. An ED Bee (ED Mark I, Series I). The serial number tells me it was made in 1953. Bought second hand by my brother.

 

I liked the way you can hear when the engine starts to suck fuel in and when the compression is about right for ignition. Deeply satisfying.

 

Start up video shot in June 2018.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Martin_K

[Tim Hooper]

A recent project has been to fabricate an RC carb for a PAW 2.49  Yes, I know you can buy one off the shelf, but hey.....

 

 

 

[leccyflyer]

Hi Tim

 

Nice job. Your recent foray into machining has been some of my most entertaining RCM&E breakfast reading these past few months 🙂

 

The arrival of these wee diesels has prompted me to hunt for the boxed PAW 15 and 1.49 engines in the kit mountain. Found them right away. Also found my engine test stand and Valvespout bottle. What could possibly go wrong? 🙂

[Engine Doctor]

The exhaust smell is good to us flyers but after a diesel day the first words my wife's says as I enter the house are " Change clothes and shower !" She loves me really.........I think 😉.

[J D 8]

         My models are stored in the house [ utility room ceiling ] but diesel one's banned to garage [ no door ] for a couple of days after use.

[Rich Griff]

Liked the DC sabre ? Air valve idea...

[Tim Hooper]

9 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

Liked the DC sabre ? Air valve idea...

It's a Merlin.  Test run today.  I'll post a few pics.

 

Tim

 

 

[Andy Stephenson]

I needed to control the throttle of my AM 25 diesel after I added a third channel to my kit-built radio back in the 70s. I found that a simple air restrictor worked perfectly on an AM25 diesel. It was implemented using a piece of ali tube pushed over the air intake incorporating a tiny flap valve. Who needs a proper carb, mind you, it probably sucks more fuel at idle than WOT.

[Christopher Wolfe]

I once tried adding a flap valve of polyurethane foam to shut off the carburettor air supply to an ancient Mills .75 diesel engine.

 

The little Mills engine just happily burbled on at reduced revs for a nice landing - sub-piston induction (where the bottom of the piston skirt clears the exhaust slit and the crankcase sucks in air) is indeed a wonderful thing 🙃

 

Chris

[jeff2wings]

Old diesels? I can do old diesels.