leccyflyer Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 Oh dear this is getting serious. Can of diesel fuel and some fuel tube on it's way from Leeds, then this afternoon found my box of control line stuff - handle, lines, tin tanks and looked out my copy of the April 1973 Aeromodeller free plan of the Jay-Pee, which was the last model that I subjected to my wingover-straight-into-the-ground control line technique and a plan started to hatch. I built the model when I was in my school aeromodelling club -imagine that - fifty years ago this summer. I think it would be nice to put that model on the project list to kick off in a couple of months, fifty years since the plan was published and stick one of those old diesels in there for another try. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Serious indeed! I'm also hopelessly afflicted. Pictured is one of my three DC Merlins in a Tomboy. I also regularly fly 3 PAW 19s and a couple of 100s. I'm not quite old enough to remember compression ignition the first time round, but was intrigued to learn that this was a thing and am now hooked. I find that there is something extremely elegant in the simplicity of this technology and these little engines are just fantastic objects. This Merlin will fly the Tomboy turning an 8x6 prop, under compressed, and lazily putter around a summer sky all evening.........absolutely wonderful and simply the best way to fly. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I found diesel engines literally by rummaging around my my dads model drawers as a kid. 'whats this daddy?' i asked holding onto this tiny engine with a strange handle on the top. When i was about 12 or 13 a high wing vintage model with paw 149 was left unloved at the end of end of a club bring and buy so i ended up with it for a tenner. I spend many hours flying that little thing and would just take it to the field behind the park and fly it there. I never received any complaints and most passers by seemed very complimentary. Anyway it eventually bit the dust when a friend overloaded it and broke the wings off in flight. I wish i knew what the model was so i could build another but i dont know if i have any photos of it for identification. I will have to look around at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 10/02/2023 at 08:44, Jon - Laser Engines said: If you are going to run them this way i would recommend you check out modelshop leeds and their model technics branded diesel fuel. This no longer uses castor, or at least they use a processed klotz benol castor that will not go gummy. i am not sure it even is castor at all, i think its a marketing thing, but whatever the oil actually is PAW are recommending it so it should be good and it should mean that your engines will not set solid due to castor if run infrequently. New club mate has a model with an old "new" PAW35, he's not brought it to the field but has run it at home, he bought a tin of new fuel with the synthetic oil and I gave him a tin of 25+ year old D1000, he notes that it's more smoky on the modern stuff but on the old stuff there's a lot oil splatter out of the exhaust, but the engine runs well on both. The engine is in an old Flair Cub, I'll video it when it come to the field. Clubmate is newly retired and has decided to have one more go at learning the fly RC, so his kit is from 25+ years ago when he last had a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Probably my longest control line flight,,,8 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 That was very well done - looked completely under control the whole time. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 5 hours ago, leccyflyer said: That was very well done - looked completely under control the whole time. 😎 There is a first for anything,,,,😅 55 years on,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff2wings Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 17 hours ago, leccyflyer said: Oh dear this is getting serious. Can of diesel fuel and some fuel tube on it's way from Leeds, then this afternoon found my box of control line stuff - handle, lines, tin tanks and looked out my copy of the April 1973 Aeromodeller free plan of the Jay-Pee, which was the last model that I subjected to my wingover-straight-into-the-ground control line technique and a plan started to hatch. I built the model when I was in my school aeromodelling club -imagine that - fifty years ago this summer. I think it would be nice to put that model on the project list to kick off in a couple of months, fifty years since the plan was published and stick one of those old diesels in there for another try. We must be of a similar vintage leccyflyer ! If I remember rightly the jay-pee had a diamond shaped aerofoil with sexy looking endplates on the wing tips and a profile fuselage.My first real attempt was with a Mercury Marvin a Dave Platt design and a DC spitfire, and with not dissimilar results although in my case it stopped half way through and nose dived straight for me,requiring me to vacant the centre spot rapidly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Yes Jeff, that's the one - strange flattened diamond airfoil section, spruce top and bottom spars, a profile twin walled fuselage about an inch thick and exaggerated endplates on the wings meant to represent the tip tanks. Mine was covered in doped nylon, sprayed with car paint in the red and white of the 1970's JPs. Mine has a PAW 2.49 diesel. Looking at the plan, if I'm going to use the ETA 15, I'll need to extend the nose by 15mm or so to be able to access the rear carb inlet. I'm hoping that would work - think the wee Webra 1.5cc diesel might be a bit weedy for the JayPee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cripps Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Another former Jay Pee owner here. Mine must have been built a bit later, probably around 1977, and powered by a PAW 249. I still have the PAW (which is currently sitting in a Warlord) and a few 149s which we used in Mini Goodyear racers - great fun. It must be nearly 20 years since I last flew control-line and it's about time I had another go! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Arrrr memory lane - I was 15 so 52 yrs ago 4 of us built combat wings covered in Polyester dress lining with DC Spitfires after school on the playing fields un supervised 😁: now that is never going to happen today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 I never dreamt that I'd be thinking of having another go, but the arrival of these wee diesels last week has unleashed a flood of nostalgia and mostly good memories. That's the insidious part 🙂 Typically the memory of the JayPee ending up as a nylon bag full of balsa shards is suppressed -no need for a black bin bag in those days, the nylon covering neatly contained all the bits itself - and the reality of endless flicking trying to get the thing to start, followed by a few seconds of terror and sickening thud of hitting the ground hard, is replaced by a the warm glow representing a glimpse of the few successful circuits. A bit like one forgets all the lost golf balls sliced off into the rough and remembers the satisfying click of the one in million which goes straight down the middle. 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J V R Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 My PAW 60 running on a test stand with a 16x6 prop before mounting in a model https://studio.youtube.com/video/ervx4gtpY04/edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Petrol not a diesel but quite old, like 77 years, the same as me! The Kestrel 5cc petrol was designed by Edgar T Westbury in 1937 to be home machined from a set of die castings. Unusual for the time it uses a front mounted rotary valve. Build date is unknown but likely to be early 1950s. Not quite as old and almost 'modern' looking a 1955(?) Frog 500. My oldest diesel is a Mills 75 Mk1 which I have owned from new in 1956. Here mounted in a free flight scale DH4. I still have it and it is still mounted in that 1965 built airframe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, J V R said: My PAW 60 running on a test stand with a 16x6 prop before mounting in a model https://studio.youtube.com/video/ervx4gtpY04/edit Link doesn't work 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J V R Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 Having got back together with my old pal Tim Hooper at Pontefract last weekend, we were talking about diesels in general and these diesels in particular and hatched a plan that I'd send them to Tim for him to take a look at, with a view to fitting some form of silencers and making them usable again. Tim messaged me today with some video clips and successfully got the three of them going - despite one of the Webras missing it's needle valve assembly, a spot of substitution and the application of some heat to liberate a stuck contra piston being involved. Shaun at Ponte had cautioned on the nylon props of old and sure enough two of them lost a blade, thankfully with no damage done to life and limb. It was great to see the clips of the wee diesels being run and that ETA 15 looks like a complete beast - I can see what the fuss was about. If Tim works his magic on the Webras I already have a home for one of those in mind- having committed to build another JayPee stunt trainer of my youth. o 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 On 14/02/2023 at 08:44, Paul De Tourtoulon said: Probably my longest control line flight,,,8 years ago. I was getting dizzy watching the video ! Short lines ? Large tank ! 🙃😲😳.....💥 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 A few years ago I came across a plan for a KK Phantom Mite and as I had a DC Merlin knocking about I decided to recreate the one I built in my teens. I’ve just found a short video of it flying a year or so ago… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 Here's a wee clip of the control line flying from Pontefract at the weekend - not sure that I could do this spinning round thing without falling over. Nor have the skill to make those manoeuvres in a mostly vertical plane, giving the chance to stop spinning round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 My brother and I built about twenty free-flight, control-line and single channel RC models in the early 1960's all powered by diesels, made by DC, AM, ED. By far our favorite was the ED Super Fury 1.5 cc (which looks pretty like the ETA 15). because it had by far the best performance. My brother recently managed to get a good Super Fury off Ebay, and it runs perfectly. (Somewhere he has put up a link to a video, if I can find it.) I'm not really sure why diesels have gone out of fashion, because they are actually a very good option for those small engine sizes - and beautifully simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 @Tim HooperWhat RC carb did you fit to your ED Mk II (or is it a Comp Special?), please? And what mods were required to get it to fit on the intake spigot? (I bought one 2nd hand at the Nats in Hullavington back in '75. It would be nice to see it in the air!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenenglish Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Mike T said: @Tim HooperWhat RC carb did you fit to your ED Mk II (or is it a Comp Special?), please? And what mods were required to get it to fit on the intake spigot? (I bought one 2nd hand at the Nats in Hullavington back in '75. It would be nice to see it in the air!) You don't need an RC carb to fly a nice old FF model. If you arrange the tank to give 3 or 4 minutes of engine run (in the air), you'll get between 5 and 10 minutes of glide and such flights are very enjoyable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hooper Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Mike T said: @Tim HooperWhat RC carb did you fit to your ED Mk II (or is it a Comp Special?), please? And what mods were required to get it to fit on the intake spigot? (I bought one 2nd hand at the Nats in Hullavington back in '75. It would be nice to see it in the air!) The carb is a home made item (made by a clubmate when an engineering apprentice), and looks to have a commercial (OS? Enya?) needle valve assembly. I found an ancient nut in the spares box that threaded onto the ED's inlet spigot. Onto this I soft soldered a short length of Tx aerial, and then the carb was epoxied directly onto the other end of the tube. To begin with, the engine wouldn't suck fuel from the tank, so I fitted a length of green plastic tube into the carb intake to reduce the bore to around 4mm, which solved the problem. I'm guessing that the carb from, say, a PAW .09 might well fit the bill. I find that addition of a throttle really expands the repertoire of a vintage model - low slow circuits, touch and goes really add to the enjoyment! Tim 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) Brilliant! Thanks! Although I've got a lathe, I think cannibalising a spare small carb is the way to go. @brokenenglishI'm flying carb-less at the mo and you're right, it can be great fun: But for a larger airframe with the ED, a little more control would be nice 🙂 Edited July 25, 2023 by Mike T adds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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