Anyone else notice it's windy?

[leccyflyer]

7 hours ago, extra slim said:

Yep, often windy in the north west. But then again there is ‘smooth wind’ and ‘turbulent wind’.. don’t you think?. I’ve gone thinking it will be windy and it is but a constant and predictable wind which is fine. Then there are times when the forecast doesn’t appear too bad, but it’s bouncing all over and you up your concentration. I too often like to fly lightweight foamies in a breeze, yes they get knocked about a bit but are always fully controllable. I have lost count of the times folk arrive with their weighty high wing loading whatever’s declaring ‘better penetration”!!. Ooo err.. only to be reaching for the bin liners when they get too slow downwind.. I say nowt and keep my thoughts to myself and enjoy that I’m out and having fun. 

Spot on about the smooth wind and turbulent wind - as you get more experienced you do get to know which wind directions and speeds suit a particular site. Trees and other obstacles play a huge part in shaping the wind and at a couple of sites that I fly at you know that there will be dirty air downwind of even quite distant trees. 

 

It's great flying in quite a brisk smooth wind and what that permits in juggling very steep approach angles on landing. That's one of my favourite things and I have particular models that I like to do that with. They aren't heavyweights "to cope with the wind" either. OTOH if it's a blustery, turbulent wind that gets uncomfortable to fly in you can recognise that quite easily. When it stops being fun, for me, it's time to stop flying. That limit will be different for every flyer.

 

I'll say again that, unlike full size aviation, we don't generally have passengers depending on us making a flight and we don't tend to have deadlines, unless competing. One exception I can remember and possibly the strongest wind I've flown in on the flat field, was when I had to take my "A" Test on the last possible evening before our club's self imposed deadline for all solo flyers to have replaced the club's own certification, with the BMFA "A" test. It was very windy indeed, but it was straight down the strip and it had to be done.

[Robin Colbourne]

I certainly noticed it was breezy in the evening about a week ago, at a time I would have expected it to calm down.  Thermic activity causes wind in the day which tends to start mid to late morning and start to die late afternoon.  Other wind is due to larger low pressure areas.
With regard to your model, a flat bottomed wing is going to be more susceptable to gusts and getting blown backwards.  If you are coping ok with your model in light winds, have a look for something with either a semi-symmetrical wing section, or even a fully symmetrical section.
 

[Lipo Man]

I joined a BMFA club just over a year ago, and have become a much better pilot flying more frequently where I can learn from other pilots. I realised in the last week that one big benefit is that I haven’t questioned flying in this weather. A year ago it would have grounded me, but now I get out and fly and manage to bring my planes home intact. I still prefer calmer flying, but I think flying in the UK means sooner or later you’ve got to get your head around coping with the wind. But I’m still hoping next week will be calmer!

[PatMc]

1 hour ago, Robin Colbourne said:

With regard to your model, a flat bottomed wing is going to be more susceptable to gusts and getting blown backwards.  If you are coping ok with your model in light winds, have a look for something with either a semi-symmetrical wing section, or even a fully symmetrical section.
 

Sorry but as a generalisation that's nonsense.

[David perry 1]

On 01/06/2023 at 08:48, Outrunner said:

Yesterday I was flying my little 3 channel Veron Mini Robot in 15mph wind, the model didn't take any notice of the wind and flew around perfectly. I did have in my favour that I was in the middle of a field with no trees nearby. The only issues I have with the wind is when there is turbulence caused by nearby trees and hedges when coming in to land.

Keep on flying.

Models never take note of wind...we do.  Many many years ago at my club we had a spate of crashes in windy weather due to pilots stalling on the downwind etc.  I wrote and published an article for RCME in an attempt to educate model pilots and thus reduce crashes through stalls; the readers letters and feedback suggested many many other pilots really hadnt grasped the concepts of airspeed and groundspeed.

 

I told my sons as kids, and they constantly remind me of this, "in this country if you dont fly in the wind, you dont fly at all".  Sadly it HAS got windier over the years so the advice stays good i feel.

 

This winter has been more appalling than ever i have known it.  I also work in full-size flying amd have lost more days november to may just gone than i can ever remember doing in 30 years.  Needless to say my model flying has also been thinned.  Wind i can hack, the cold i prefer to avoid these days.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by David perry 1

[Cuban8]

On 01/06/2023 at 14:09, Brian Cooper said:

Regrettably, it has steadily been getting windier for the last 25+ years. 

Years ago a wind speed of 15mph would have kept most models on the ground. . Nowadays, this is fairly normal.... and then the heavy gusts make it even more sporty. 

 

I feel sorry for the beginners having to learn the "trade" in these rougher conditions. It can be a harsh school. 

It's okay for the experienced pilots.  With the right model, wind can can be fun to play with.  

Sunday before last it was blowing a hoolie at our field, yet one of our members was flying a couple of tiny EDF jets, equipped I dare say with stabiliation etc but they flew as if it was flat calm. Very impressive.

[kevin b]

On 01/06/2023 at 18:38, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Same as it ever was for me, we do don the rose tinted as we age though.

Trees in Yorkshire all lean the same way, always have, away from Lancashire. 😉

With good reason. 😉

[paul devereux]

Just about dead calm from 8.30pm this evening down in the S Coast. Hope it's the same in the morning.

[GrumpyGnome]

Pretty calm here in NE at the moment - wind started dropping about 30 mins ago. Morning looks iffy, but I am dog-sitting anyway 😞

[leccyflyer]

Lovely and calm here this morning, very light winds straight down the strip and had some very enjoyable flights. During the afternoon, though still sunny, the wind got up to a brisk blow and even now it's probably 6-8mph.

I've just been watching some video of the long spring and summer evenings that we seemed to have for weeks on end back in the noughties. Glorious gentle circuits with lightweight electric biplanes and, on topic for the forum, carving up the evening sky with my Cambrian Bf109E - pre lipo days but still adequately powered on 10 cell NiCd pack and AXI 2820/10.

[paul devereux]

Well, I managed to get some flying in- just 5 mins, it was cold and the wind, though quite light, blew straight from the Sun- so I had to fly down wind all the time, not my favourite. On the plus side I actually flew, as I lose confidence if I leave it too long. Also, my landing was a light as a feather due to the wind, it practically hovered in.

[GrumpyGnome]

I snuck out to the field for an hour yesterday to run an engine in - first new 2-stroke glow engine I've bought for about 30 years!

 

Being an OS (.46) it started easily and was pretty much bang-on wrt needles.  Tank full through it at various low/medium revs after following the instructions then good to go.  Breezy but couldn't resist a quick flight.  So much better than the old .70 four stroke it replaced - but that does have pretty much zero compression....

 

The OS is surprisingly quiet.

[J D 8]

22 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

 

 

22 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

With regard to your model, a flat bottomed wing is going to be more susceptable to gusts and getting blown backwards.  If you are coping ok with your model in light winds, have a look for something with either a semi-symmetrical wing section, or even a fully symmetrical section.
 

  Flat bottom wing, 3 channel, goes up when most others stay on the ground.

Edited June 3, 2023 by J D 8

[MattyB]

23 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

With regard to your model, a flat bottomed wing is going to be more susceptable to gusts and getting blown backwards.  If you are coping ok with your model in light winds, have a look for something with either a semi-symmetrical wing section, or even a fully symmetrical section.

Can you explain why you believe that is the case? I’ve flown plenty of flat bottom winged models (powered and on the slope), and it doesn’t really ring true for me. There are lots of factors that influence how a model handles in high wind - overall airframe drag, CG position, wing loading, tail volume coefficient etc. - but I’m not aware of any specific type of wing section being more susceptible to gusts.
 

Yes, in general a thicker section with more camber designed to fly slower will struggle to penetrate in a high winds, but that is a function of camber and thickness, not whether it’s flat bottomed or not. I remember flying a couple of heavily loaded flat bottomed slope rockets (at least they were for their time!) in my youth in the 80s and early 90s. They had 9-10% thick Clark-Y(ish) sections, and though they had their foibles and would be massively outperformed by a modern slope sections they flew plenty fast enough to handle winds of 30mph+.

 

[Outrunner]

We always warble on about too much wind, too turbulent wind, the wrong kind of wind, a model that good in the wind, a model that's bad in the wind, yet I watch the little sparrows that only weigh a few grams to mighty eagles that weigh a lot more and they seemingly have no problems with the wind.

 

I think the difference is the birds get on and fly in anything and we just talk about it.....

[paul devereux]

13 minutes ago, Outrunner said:

We always warble on about too much wind, too turbulent wind, the wrong kind of wind, a model that good in the wind, a model that's bad in the wind, yet I watch the little sparrows that only weigh a few grams to mighty eagles that weigh a lot more and they seemingly have no problems with the wind.

 

I think the difference is the birds get on and fly in anything and we just talk about it.....

I think you are not being too serious, but wind can play havoc with birds, particularly those that nest on cliffs, etc. Here's a more general discussion:

Birds avoid flying during strong winds due to the danger and difficulty it poses. The turbulence caused by wind can disrupt their flight, making it harder for them to maintain altitude and balance. In addition, strong winds also make it difficult for birds to control their direction of flight, which can lead to them being pushed off course or even crash into objects.

Where Do Birds Go When Its Windy (chipperbirds.com)

Edited June 3, 2023 by paul devereux

[David perry 1]

On 01/06/2023 at 18:29, kevin b said:

Since when did we believe what the Met Office tell us ?

The information they have given is strength, not volume and they only appear to be interested in excesses.

 

Every day of my working life as an airline pilot.  I was always amazed that if the met office said 5kt or 50kt at some point, youd bet your wages it was.  If they said id arrive in 3 hours 4 minutes...yep.   

 

The forecasts they SELL are excellent.

 

But i do take your point.  My phone has two weather apps, both usually utterly opposed.

[David perry 1]

On 02/06/2023 at 08:49, Robin Colbourne said:

With regard to your model, a flat bottomed wing is going to be more susceptable to gusts and getting blown backwards.  
 

Only partly true.  The model will NEVER be blown backwards.  It might fail to penetrate, but it will always be flying forwards.  Susceptibility to gusts is a wing loading result not section.  The Jaguar was solid as a rock and its wing pretty flat. Any number of flat bottomed OR biconvex microlights are blown about by zephyrs. 

 

The language we use can lead us to dead ends quite quickly.

 

Bottom line is, dont over think...just go and fly.  You can always chop the throttle, save the model and go for a walk  instead.

[Geoff S]

3 hours ago, David perry 1 said:

Only partly true.  The model will NEVER be blown backwards.  It might fail to penetrate, but it will always be flying forwards.  Susceptibility to gusts is a wing loading result not section.  The Jaguar was solid as a rock and its wing pretty flat. Any number of flat bottomed OR biconvex microlights are blown about by zephyrs. 

 

The language we use can lead us to dead ends quite quickly.

 

Bottom line is, dont over think...just go and fly.  You can always chop the throttle, save the model and go for a walk  instead.

 

Not entirely true.  I've had a model blown backwards and destroyed on take-off.  On an otherwise warm and low wind day I was taking off with my big Lazy Bee just as an unpredictable thermally generated gust blew hard. The Bee was thrown over onto its back and damaged beyond economical repair - it was a model I'd bought for £30 after I'd seen it hanging in a local model shop so hadn't a lot of either time or treasure invested.  In the air, I would agree, but it's fun to fly backwards relative to the ground 🙂

[Geoff S]

When I was sailing a lot in the 70s, 80s and early 90s we had handicap racing on Wednesday evenings and they were almost always drifters with very little wind.  The last time I raced was on August 1st 1995 and cursed as I dragged my Laser over the dried mud (there was a drought as well) because I was fed up sailing in no wind.  I spoke too soon as was fetched off my pedal bike the following morning and spent 3 months off work.  At least it got me playing with toy aeroplanes.

 

Still summer evenings seem to be much rarer now

Edited June 4, 2023 by Geoff S
grammar!

[David perry 1]

4 hours ago, Geoff S said:

 

Not entirely true.  I've had a model blown backwards and destroyed on take-off.  On an otherwise warm and low wind day I was taking off with my big Lazy Bee just as an unpredictable thermally generated gust blew hard. The Bee was thrown over onto its back and damaged beyond economical repair - it was a model I'd bought for £30 after I'd seen it hanging in a local model shop so hadn't a lot of either time or treasure invested.  In the air, I would agree, but it's fun to fly backwards relative to the ground 🙂

Yes but point is that the MODEL is always flying forwards, even though you perceive it to be going the wrong way.  Unless of course it simply wasnt flying at all, simply being blown around like so much rubbish in a storm.  In that case, im not sure what backwards means but it sure aint flying  ha ha.  Sorry about your model anyway.

[paul devereux]

50 minutes ago, David perry 1 said:

Yes but point is that the MODEL is always flying forwards, even though you perceive it to be going the wrong way.  Unless of course it simply wasnt flying at all, simply being blown around like so much rubbish in a storm.  In that case, im not sure what backwards means but it sure aint flying  ha ha.  Sorry about your model anyway.

Full size plane flying backwards to the pilots amusement:

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Reminds me of an occasion “reversing” an ASK7 glider at a low wing loading while hill soaring in a strong wind.  Looking out over my shoulder while flying straight and level was a new experience…

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many experienced model (and full size) pilots fail to appreciate the simple dynamics of flying in a moving body of air.  Multiple 360 degree thermal turns in strong winds soon educate you - doing so at low level introduces the (hazardous) effects of visual perception. 

[David perry 1]

On 04/06/2023 at 19:57, paul devereux said:

Full size plane flying backwards to the pilots amusement:

 

Have it your way.

[paul devereux]

36 minutes ago, David perry 1 said:

Have it your way.

Planes can't really fly backwards- they would stall. It's just a joke, because the ground speed is lowered..