Slope soaring, an ideal entry into learning to fly RC model aircraft?

[leccyflyer]

3 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

The other caveats are:

 

They were not designed for the added weight of radio gear (even modern gear is probably a significant proportion of their weight)

They were not designed for the stresses a ham-fisted learner is likely to impose - learners typically do not 'nudge' in my experience, they over-control.

 

The other caveats are that those designs need to be properly trimmed in order to behave in the desired manner and be easily steered majestically around the sky. You need only visit the chuck and duck at the Nats just once to see what free flight models which are not properly trimmed fly like. Or indeed, if you are of an age think back to those vintage designs back in the day and the number of crashes that we had, trying to teach ourselves to fly with them.

[Piers Bowlan]

Returning to the OP, I think proximity to a suitable slope and one’s fitness has a big influence on how ideal RC slope soaring is to a beginner.

I was lucky in that I was living in Fife with an abundance of hills on my doorstep when a friend and work colleague gave me a magazine plan for a Rivington Hawk. I liked the design but I can’t think of a more unsuitable trainer, being small, slippery with no natural stability! Eventually when I had it set up properly the penny finally dropped and I was able to cruise it up and down the slope to my hearts content, by which time the model was mostly epoxy held together with a little crushed balsa!

The morale here is to start with a suitable model and I can think of no better choice than a Wild Thing for the slope as it is pretty much indestructible, being made of EPP. 
Incidentally, I bought a Zagi flying wing in the US, back in the day and modded it so that the wings were slotted together with carbon fibre tubes. Velcro kept them together as were the wingtip fins. Secreted in my suitcase my Zagi accompanied me on my travels around the world, sometimes flown in exotic locations including, Hong Kong, the US and Japan. Try doing that with your club trainer 🤣

[PDB]

7 minutes ago, Piers Bowlan said:

I can think of no better choice than a Wild Thing for the slope as it is pretty much indestructible, being made of EPP. 
 

 

Flew yesterday in the strongest winds I've encountered yet, at the edge of the slope it was difficult to stand upright against the wind.

 

My second session with an elderly secondhand Wild Thing 60, first launch attempt saw the wind get under it and it blown at least 100 yards behind me. 😁 A bit of tape to secure the fin it was back in the air 10 minutes later then followed by more than a few dodgy landings due to getting pinned back and it still survived. Once I got a handle on it I had a great days flying, cannot recommend them enough too.

 

So impressed with the Wild Wing I've ordered a new 46 kit.

[EarlyBird]

On 03/02/2024 at 10:15, Rich Griff said:

Cool, what would be then please ?

 

Suggestions ?

I have deciphered this but not sure about Cool.

It's an invitation to say what's the best way to learn RC flying.

A pity Rich does not want to join in.

The way I learned six years ago was to find a club and an instructor. Just the same as @totois doing. Then started thermal flat field gliding with a Phoenix 2000.

 

Steve

[MattyB]

I did learn to fly (aged 8 or 9 I think) to fly on the slope (Burrough Hill) in the mid 80s. We didn't have EPP models or a buddy setup, just a 2ch 27MHz ACOMs set (green crystal) and a Rookie 72 R/E barge:

 

 

...which I followed with a (crunchy foam, not EPP) SAS Thing 1.5m (with a mechanical sliding tray mixer!):

 

 

This approach had it's pros and cons...

 

Pros:

• Lots of flying - got to solo pretty quickly (I flew 4-5 hours a session most days once I got the initial hang of it, and converted to an aileron equipped model within a few weeks)
• Learn to read the air and conditions better and fly efficiently (you learn most on light lift days, scratching around)
• Don't get scared of wind
• Simple, cheap models
• Nice view!
• Very sociable atmosphere, and standard of flying on well populated slopes tends to be pretty high the slope, so had the benefit of a number of good instructors.
• Glider pilots tend to know (and share) a lot more about aerodynamics, so I learnt a lot more about CG position, trimming, wing sections, tail volumes etc. earlier than if I had learnt on a powered model. Trimming for performance is ingrained early in glider guiders!

Cons:

• Reliant on wind direction - if it's blowing the wrong way, no flying.
• When you do get it wrong, it can be a big smash (S.L.O.P.E = Smashed, lost or pulverised, eventually!)
• Often have to adapt the landing pattern to the site and conditions a lot more (which a beginner won't understand if they aren't instructed how to do it)
• You don't do as many landings, so if you later want to convert to power the "do 100 circuits" phase can feel very strange.
• Can be rather cold!

Personally I believe I got better quicker flying slope than I would have on power, primarily due to the hours I racked up quickly. Also as a kid I never liked the scream of two stroke glow engines (no real electric power back then!), so that meant I was not as keen about power flying either. Having said that if I am recommending someone the easiest way to get started today, it's probably a combination of a sim + an unstabilised electric foamie or traditional glow trainer, depending on what types of site they have access too. It's still completely possible to learn on a slope though if that's what you want to do. 

 

PS - It's definitely easier to take up power flying after slope than the other way round. I've seen many good power flyers struggle to deal with the less controlled and predictable environment of the slope; they also tend to do too much with the sticks too much of the time, which kills efficiency. That, and they tend to whinge about the cold and the wind...! 😉🤣

 

Edited February 5 by MattyB

[Rich Griff]

My mum in law lived on cilan headland...

[EarlyBird]

15 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

My mum in law lived on cilan headland...

👍

[Phil Green]

3 hours ago, MattyB said:

...they also tend to do too much with the sticks too much of the time, which kills efficiency.

 

...and they keep pulling up ele when the lift falters... 🙂

[Stubbsy]

To be honest back in the day we taught a few people to fly up on the slope. Normally down the field they’d turn up with a trainer and after a week or two once they had a basic feel for it and werent completely over sticking the model we use to invite them up the slope with an old combat wing. Give them about half a hour one on one just to settle their nerves then tell them we wouldn’t try and combat them until they had a try for us and let them get on with it lol. This was normally enough to push them as they’d want to join the swarm.  Normally a few Sundays and we d go back down the field again and it would bring them on no end and really shorten their training time 

Edited February 5 by Stubbsy

[Petrogli]

5 hours ago, MattyB said:

I did learn to fly (aged 8 or 9 I think) to fly on the slope (Burrough Hill) in the mid 80s.

 

Wow, I also first flew up at Burrough Hill in the 80s at about the same age. Small world and all that.

 

I always remember the huge thistles and cow pats in the LZ that coined the term "Splot Landing" in our house.

[toto]

Apologies ..... I posted a question enquiring about the ease of hand launching and landings with gliders on my other thread. ..... thanks to the mods / admin for removing it.

 

Rich .... I noted a post that suggested that I may have changed my mind. Its not the case for now anyway. I'm merely being inquisitive. All the above posts with various comments and opinions has simply picked my interest up. 

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[Rich Griff]

No, changed your mind about thread location about hand launching....

[Arthur Harris]

46 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

No, changed your mind about thread location about hand launching....

Just out of interest Rich, what flying do you do? Sloping, flat field, IC, EP? It seems you are a bit of an enigma!

[MattyB]

4 hours ago, Petrogli said:

 

Wow, I also first flew up at Burrough Hill in the 80s at about the same age. Small world and all that.

 

I always remember the huge thistles and cow pats in the LZ that coined the term "Splot Landing" in our house.

 

Yep, them thistles would easily take out a lightly built up wing at the height of summer! The stuff of nightmares they were...

 

Do you remember Greg Dakin and his Dad who used to fly there a lot, and Ron Broughton who used to fly a wide range of home brews and a very tricked up SAS Apache? The most memorable model we had was my Dad's PJ Models Red Arrows Hawk PSS, but it only flew there a few times - it's Clark Y wing wasn't really efficient enough unless it was a booming day.

Edited February 6 by MattyB

[Phil Green]

I recall the name Ron Broughton from the comp days...  dont remember his models though

[Nigel Sharp]

Dave Hughes radio control soaring is an old Bible on the subject.

 

Check various online book retailers for a copy.

 

I learnt essentially lone hand 1980 chuck it off. Bash repair repeat... after a few years control line and free flight of course.

 

Baildon west yorks. Lots of happy hours slope flying. Alas too near to L&B Airport and restricted zone.

 

 

[Jonathan M]

I love the Dave Hughes book!  Superbly written and illustrated material from the days when online videos didn't exist.

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Phil Green said:

I recall the name Ron Broughton from the comp days...  dont remember his models though

Yeah, towards the end of the EPP60 era he built and flew his own designs, the best of which I seem to remember was the Balistik…

 

 

Edited February 6 by MattyB

[Rich Griff]

Hi Jonathan,

 

May I ask please, what is the books title and when might it have been written ?

 

I must have been about 10, dad says " were going out" .

 

So us kids, 4 boys, me being number 3, pile into the commer minibus. Usual argument, I'm sitting there, no I am, DAD !

I would sit on the single seat by the sliding door, the seat closest to the rear heater.

 

We end up in Church Stretton. He says " we are going up there" , walking up the clearly visible track.

 

We eventually get to the top, fabulous views and air.

 

Lots of people up there and some  flying radio controlled gliders.....

 

Talked to a chap who let me have a brief go on one of the sticks, ten seconds or so.....wow, I'm hooked !

 

Much better than free flight ( freeflight locally at home means it flies off into the mountains or the sea ) and control line.

 

I ask about cost .....

 

 

 

When 27 meg stuff was dumped on the UK matket, I took up radio control model flying.

 

Took me a year to save for 35meg stuff and hi boy etc., but powered gliders and slope soarers were affordable.

 

The girlfriends mum lived on Cilan headland...

 

Apart from the busy 8am  till 9pm    7 day  week summer season, we were up there every weekend more or less...

 

Headland and penrhos.

 

Yes you can get out of practise, but you don't really forget. Even flying a seagull mode 1 can be good practise.

I used to do that prior to learning to fly the first glider. 😀 

 

It's chucking it down with rain again here today.

 

Sometimes it will rain all week, horizontally. We call it liquid sunshine.🤣

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by Rich Griff

[Nigel Sharp]

It's in my post above Jonathan's post. Originally around 1974 but reprinted a few times.

 

Old gliders are detailed with mechanical mixes, camber control etc.

 

All the basic rules.

Just remember 1. If the wind is going up... faster than the glider is going down so is the glider!

 

Ensure your battery pack is well charged. You only have to land.... when your arms or neck ache. Need the loo or someone else wants to have a go.

 

You quickly learn cross wind and high wind are no bother. Just add a bit more lead.

 

Perhaps I'll have to dust off my phase 6. It's been a while.

[Jolly Roger]

2 hours ago, Jonathan M said:

I love the Dave Hughes book!  Superbly written and illustrated material from the days when online videos didn't exist.

Agreed 100%. I loved my copy to bits. Literally 😍

[Graham Bowers]

5 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Agreed 100%. I loved my copy to bits. Literally 😍

Saved here https://rclibrary.co.uk/download_title.asp?ID=1023

[Rich Griff]

Thank you so much chaps.

 

I am sure newbies, tyros, born again and even some old sweats will learn a thing or two by reading it.

 

It's as well to remind ones self from time to time...

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

[PDB]

50 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Agreed 100%. I loved my copy to bits. Literally 😍

I too have a copy, think it's a more recent version.

 

 

Not only have I learnt a lot about different types of slopes and how the wind works, but the section by Chris Foss covering model design is very interesting.

[John Lee]

Yes, plenty of good stuff by some very knowledgable contributors in the book.