Project mancave

[toto]

I've been banging my gums about this for some time but now ........ putting words into action.

 

I'm currently looking at finalising an order with Noah Garden Buildings for a new Mancave. My current two sheds are not up to the task now, one being a 25 year old B and Q offering which has been a superb shed but unfortunately starting to show its years. Spongy floor , dodgy roof and ain't worth spending money on to repair.

 

The second was purpose built " by clowns " about 12 to 15 years ago and has given me nothing but heartache. I won't go into it but sufficient to say it makes sense writing off now as I replace the smaller shed. I currently only use the bigger shed as my hobby shed with the smaller shed being domestically orientated.

 

The equipment in the domestic shed is really only a couple of pair of steps and a lawn mower .... some odds and ends. So I thought ..... get rid and combine the space into a supershed and realise the combined additional space into use able workshop space. A total of 18 feet by 14 feet.

 

It will be a " pent " type shed with only 3 small windows ( for security purposes ) and a 3 foot door to the front. 

 

The shed will come from the supplier with a DPM between the cladding ( 38mm loglap ) and the framework , 3 x 2 tanalised treated. I will install a 25mm insulation ( similar to kingspan but without the price tag ) and sheet with a 9 or 12mm Ply. This way, it will give me time to install the electrics inside the cavity out of the way before lining the shed out as above.

 

The roof comes with a foil insulation equivalent to using 55mm thick insulation board and will be sheeted with a 9mm Ply concealing all lighting wiring etc. The roof is 11mm thick and from memory is also T and G, I'll need to double check that. Roof covering will be mineral felt. Easy to install and easy to replace.

 

22mm t and g timber floor which I am not insulating. Never insulated the floors of the last sheds and they were OK so not going there.

 

Since I am insulating and lining the walls, I will be installing vents in the shed walls to allow airflow and let the walls breathe to avoid the walls sweating and encouraging condensation / dampness. A lesson learned from my previous shed.

 

So ..... that's where I am at. I will post up a photo of the intended shed at some point soon to give an idea and post up my progress including the assembly. I will be assembling myself as Noah's will deliver to Scotland but won't assemble up hear. ..... no issue. 

 

I have just about completed phase 1 of the master plan by completing the front and rear fences of the house and will be moving on to the demolishing and disposal of the smaller shed. That should be over the coming week or so. Then, I will be constructing two sub-bases for the new shed to sit on which will be supported on concrete slabs. They will be stored until the larger of the sheds is taken down. 

 

I will programme the larger shed with the arrival of the new shed as I will need to move the contents into the house for the duration between shed coming down and new shed going up. I reckon once I get the delivery date fixed, one week before, move the contents, take down the old shed, lay the two sub -bases and join together, take delivery of new shed and assemble ....... all within a week. The interior fit out can happen at my leisure once I get the main structure wind and water tight. ..... when I say at my leisure, I mean an immediate continuation once the shed goes up. I won't be hanging about.

 

So ...... if you fancy a departure from reading about RC Planes for a bit, here is an alternative ...... 

 

Cheers for now

 

Toto

 

Edited September 1 by toto

[Robin Colbourne]

Toto, I'm looking forward to reading about your mancave build and fit out.

If the lawnmower is engine-powered you might want to have some sort of alternative store for it, otherwise you may be building with the smell of petrol.

I would leave it as an option to put some sort of insulation layer down on the floor as a concrete floor can sap the warmth from your feet in the winter.

Edited September 1 by Robin Colbourne

[toto]

Love the smell of petrol but fear not ..... I only have a humble flymo as my grass area is pretty small, too small to warrant anything more heavy duty.

 

I'm not sure about the floor insulation idea. I can add that as an option with the manufacturer. I think it is the same foil type as used in the roof. Maybe better than. Nothing but again I worry about letting the structure breathe. If I did install floor insulation, I would still be tempted to install vents of some sort to prevent encouraging condensation / potential mould growth inside the structure.

 

I'll need to make up my mind on that quickly as I am about to hit the nuclear button in the ordering process. 

 

Thanks for your input and stay tuned.

 

Toto

[toto]

Hi Robin, just took another look at the suppliers site. The floor insulation is the same as the roof insulation. It comprises a foil type sheeting material which offers the same equivalent of 55mm board insulation. It doesn't provide any information on U values but I'm sure they would supply that if asked. It only adds a couple of hundred quid to the price so think I will go for it. 

 

Toto

[toto]

Rear fence 95 % complete. 6 fence slats short. 

 

 

On target to get the small shed taken down next weekend and the new sheds sub bases built. We'll get the 6 slats when we order the sub base timber through this week.

 

Front fence done.

 

 

 

 

Looking good.

 

Motoring on now.

 

Toto

 

 

[toto]

So ......looking through the rest of the shed specification, it just dawned on me that rather than use standard 13A double sockets ..... get some with built in USB charge points. Ideal charging points for transmitters and phones etc without using up the 13A socket itself. 

 

My existing workshop / shed has flourescent lights ..... thinking about changing those out for bright LED lighting as flourescent can play tricks with moving machinery etc. Thinking props here.

 

I may do an extractor fan as well as you can find yourself working with some pretty obnoxious materials at times, RC planes not being my only interest. 

 

I had thought about some kind of basic alarm with outside PIR detector but the jury is still out on that point.

 

Onwards and upwards.

 

Toto

[Robin Colbourne]

A few things based on experience with my own place.

• Install some outside wall sockets so leads for outside use don't end up draped across models.
• Sockets on walls again can result in leads across things on the bench and can knock them off or damage them.  If you are tall enough, some ceiling mounted sockets can be handy, otherwise on the front of the underside of the bench.
• Under worktop cupboards are a pain.  You have to get down to make sure stuff is in them properly to stop it tumbling out.
• A small vice on a piece of wood can be mounted in a larger vice for more detailed work.
• Benches mounted on castors (100mm wheels with brakes) allow you to make a big space quickly should you need it.
• Have a rack of your most used tools in easy reach.  You don't want to have to open drawers, cupboards or tool boxes to find them.  The same applies to your most used adhesives, cleaners and lubricants.   Try and have these somewhere that is always shaded though, so they don't evaporate or go off.
• If the ceiling is tall enough, hang stuff like hot air guns up so you don't have to have them on the bench or in a cupboard.
• Magnetic tool strips are a godsend.  Lidl sell them quite often.  Same applies to magnetic parts trays.
• Paint the floors white.  It makes finding dropped parts a lot easier than on a darker colour.

Edited September 1 by Robin Colbourne

[toto]

All very relevant points Robin.

 

I'll keep them in mind though it's hard to get a one solution fits all scenario.

 

The bench on castors is a very good idea which could free up some good space quickly. 

 

Toto

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

You will have no space, it'll be filled in short order. Lights aplenty and a window that will open, and a kettle.

[leccyflyer]

Will be interesting to see your workshop develop Toto. 

 

A few observations from my recent workshop build.

 

LEDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>Fluorescents.  There really is no comparison - the white light LED strip lights are fantastic and so much better. Can't recommend them highly enough.

 

Fire alarm and extinguishers are vital - as you're in Scotland it pays to have the alarm wirelessly linked to your house smoke alarms. No point having a smoke alarm in a separate shed if you're not going to hear it when it's needed.

 

Some form of fume extractor is a great idea if you can arrange for it.

 

If you can afford the space for multiple benches that is a great idea for having more than one project on the go at a time - which does seem to be something you would likely have - allowing routine maintenance to occur at the same time as a build project. 

[toto]

Don't forget the wine chiller ...... 

 

I have decanted some of my previous purchases to the attic until required and I'm determined not to fill the new found space with more.

 

My main wish is to allow for decent storage space for completed models without cramming them in and still have a reasonable build space. Also to have a bit of a work area to use my proxxon bench tools for other projects. We'll see. .... one thing is for sure ...... there is no more room for further expansion. ..... period. 

 

I think ..... maybe I can build up ..... 

 

Toto

Edited September 1 by toto

[toto]

Hi Leccy, 

 

I think LED baton lights will be the way to go as soon as I have found some big enough. Fire extinguishers are all well and good but which type ? Unfortunately it's not a one fix fits all. ..... lipo's ..... timber ....... electric ....... etc etc all require different solutions.

 

I do plan to build in a lipo battery cabinet out of double skin MDF ( vented ). It won't totally stop the blaze but could offer a one hour ( or so ) fire barrier. Just a thought.

 

I am busy working out where the various functional parts of the workshop will be and have reserved some kind of platform by the door for battery charging in order to toss them outside if any issue occurs. I never leave them charging unattended.

 

Smoke alarms .... never thought of that but these wireless linked models can be problematic if installed between separate buildings ..... more thought on that though as I'm not ruling it out.

 

All good points.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[Philip Lewis 3]

5 minutes ago, toto said:

I do plan to build in a lipo battery cabinet out of double skin MDF ( vented ). It won't totally stop the blaze but could offer a one hour ( or so ) fire barrier. Just a thought.

 

 

 

Line it with a double skin of plasterboard, that will give you some better fire protection. Don't forget to line the back and front as well as the sides

Edited September 1 by Philip Lewis 3

[toto]

I don't know if I can still get asbestolux which ... as far as I know is still used for lining out traditional chimney openings for gas back boilers ... but if I could ......I would as the cutting would be minimal for this installation and it offers first class protection.

 

Plasterboard ... even if double skinned ..... would that beat the equivalent double skinned 22mm Ply or MDF ....... I'm not so sure but am open to being proven wrong.

 

Toto.

 

 

[leccyflyer]

Fire extinguisher types? Dry powder is probably the best compromise  if you are only going to have one type.  None of them are fully effective against lipo fires, so you are really looking for a degree of comfort for dealing with anything else that is flammable.

 

Lipo battery cabinet is another good idea, if you can't provide insulated, temperature stabilised lipo storage outside of the building. As Philip said fire retardant plasterboard will provide better protection than MDF.

 

In the frozen north I'd also say to go for the maximum insulation that you can manage, you'll cut down on the energy needed to get your workshop up to temperature and it will help provide a damp-free environment for model and kit storage.

[Philip Lewis 3]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Plasterboard ... even if double skinned ..... would that beat the equivalent double skinned 22mm Ply or MDF ....... I'm not so sure but am open to being proven wrong.

 

Beat it? There is no comparison, if you want to test it take a blowtorch to a piece of MDF then do the same to a piece of plasterboard, plasterboard just won't burn.

[Ernie]

qood luck Toto;   There is a sheddy rule that has existed since ancient Roman times; and probably even longer.   No matter how big a shed is, it will always need to be bigger.  Ask Mr De Havilland, he knows

ernie

[toto]

Hi Philip,

 

Plasterboard it will be then ..... at least for the fireproof cabinet side of things. Double skinned with staggered joints with ventilation.

 

Toto 

[Learner]

42 minutes ago, toto said:

Hi Philip,

 

Plasterboard it will be then ..... at least for the fireproof cabinet side of things. Double skinned with staggered joints with ventilation.

 

Toto 

I fitted plasterboard and skimmed inside my shed, you can also get fireline plasterboard which is more fire resistant.

 

 

[Learner]

9 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

 

Beat it? There is no comparison, if you want to test it take a blowtorch to a piece of MDF then do the same to a piece of plasterboard, plasterboard just won't burn.

Plasterboard will burn its only fire resistant, hence doubling up and plastering to give added resistance.

[toto]

Thanks for that Learner. 

 

I will only be plasterboarding inside the actual cabinet itself as I don't want the whole shed plasterboarded. I'd prefer Ply lining as it takes more a use and " remodelling " in terms of screwing things too.

 

Plasterboard gets a bit messed up after a while and doesn't take the same weight loadings as play. ( in my opinion anyway ) 

 

I'll work out the best location inside the shed and ensure that the cabinet is vented through an outside wall to clear space.

 

Toto 

[Chris Walby]

IMO, there are only two scenarios to consider

1. You are in the mancave and somehow you cause the fire. You need to have a clear and unobstructed exit (ultimately property can be replaced, you can't). personally I don't like the idea of blocking your exit with charging lipos. I would go for a 4 or 6kg powder, lets face it if its on fire, time is of the essence and secondary damage is inconsequential. In a relatively enclosed space like the mancave you will be deploying the extinguisher while exiting the shed due to the cloud of powder you will be making. The fire alarm went off and the equipment was still running...but not for long!
   
   Best have an exit plan
   
   Equipment fire, Fire and Rescue attended with minutes (5 possibly, but definitely less than 10 minutes) full Breathing Apparatus as the very large plant space was smoke logged. Our numpty technician didn't want to give the F&R big extinguishers in case they made a mess, so they kept asking and did what they needed to do hence the quantity of spent extinguishers (they used about 10 in total where a couple of big ones would have been better!). Fire out in a few minutes, all clear given in about an hour and F&R departed after about 2 hours (well done to the woman and men firefighters that attended).
2. 
   If you want to know the cause? Degraded capacitors (example from a sister unit)
   
    
3. You are not in the mancave when fire breaks out, lets hope you or a neighbours spot the smoke and call the Fire and Rescue Service, not much you can do if its well insulated as it will be well alight so leave it to the professionals. The best you could do is have a list of all the materials in the shed like lipos, fuel (mower and spare can), solvents and pressurised gas canisters etc If you can accurately let them know what they are facing then they will be more likely to actively tackle the fire.
   
   
   Best to assist the Fire and Rescue Services with information that will be helpful to them
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
    

[Chris Walby]

One thing to add, you could ask for a visit by your local Fire and Rescue Service and receive professional advice first hand. 

[Don Fry]

Toto, it’s a shed, don’t overthink it. So it’s  on fire, take steps, towards the exit. Get out. You will then note, the fire brigade will put it out from a safe distance. Merely property, no one gets hurt. 

[Bruce Collinson]

Limited lessons learned from man caves, property specifically and life in general.

It’s impossible to have too many sockets and yes, the extra cost of USB sockets is trivial

Ditto LED tube light fittings.   If you can’t find long ones, fit more standard ones, the replacement tubes will be cheaper.   Fit more, you can always turn them off, or get sunnies.

Insulate the floor.   Assuming the manufacturer supplies an appropriate vapour barrier and you have adequate background heat, condensation ought not to be an issue.   Epidemics of “damp and mould” etc. ad nauseam result directly from three principal causes; shutting all the trickle vents (increasing vapour content), turning the heating down/off (lowering the dewpoint) and drying clothes on radiators.

At least you can immunise yourself from the latter.

Rainwater harvesting, big butt e.g.?   Not Chinese pv panels though, a total pain in the (big) butt every time the felt has to come off.

Edited September 2 by Bruce Collinson
Error. Dewpoints may fall in value.