Phil Green Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 Expensive? Slope soaring on common land. No site fees, no engine, no fuel, LIDL Glider £8, homebrew R/C, total airborne cost maybe £15 🙂 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Lots of helpful info. I always advise newbies to our club to buy nothing to start with. Invite them to come up to the field, talk to everybody and have a go on the club trainer (three free visits). I usually advise that second hand rc gear is fraught with danger......you MIGHT be lucky, but you might not. Is it worth the risk? Safety implications etc. We advise on buying two transmitters and a buddy lead (second TX could be second hand). Newbie can then turn up "Oven ready" to fly without faffing about linking up to an instructors TX etc etc. It is possible to find a "bin job" of a model on market place, that with a bit of patience can be resurrected. Ask around the club, somebody is usually selling something for a decent price. AliExpress, Bangood, Temu. Amazing prices, if you are prepared to wait a bit. Hobbyking has also come back from the dead. Flite test foam board models, vast selection. A bit agricultural....but they fly. I am a great believer in learning / improving on a flight sim. Phoenix 6 is better than ever and free!. Lots of other money saving ideas, but the hobby does not have to be mad expensive IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 One mans expensive is another mans cheap of course. In real terms, compared to when I started, some things, like rc systens, are ridiculously cheap. Or can be.... Not sure about other things, which seem to have increased in price disproportionately in the last 5 years! I'm with Simon - many beginners (and experienced fliers, but less so) buy kit that is unsuitable, or does not perform; or just stockpile kits which may never see the light of day. Best advice ever is to visit a club - even if you can't join, you can probably have taster flights and free advice from a real flier, in real time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Yup, I am in two clubs. We offer endless, free, trial flights to novices. We offer free tuition to novices. There are no waiting lists for novices. We sometimes have suitable equipment for sale for novices to buy. Sometimes we give it away for free to junior novices. The main problem is finding the new novices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 This definitely need not be an expensive hobby and making use of alternative materials, with the huge amount of free online resources, can make it a very inexpensive and absorbing hobby compared to many. Up against golf, spectator sports, ski-ing, sailing, motor sports and suchlike it represents fantastic value for money. In real terms I'd say that ten years ago it was never cheaper to put a radio controlled model aeroplane in the air, if using the very cheap radio gear and power trains that were widely available, plus building from scratch with depron, foamboard, Correx and other materials. Radio gear, the likes of which would have cost several months wages in the much-vaunted heydays of the hobby on the 70's and 80's available for the price of a couple of pints. Prices have risen somewhat since Covid, but cheap alternatives are available. I think some excellent points have been made about the wasted expense of poorly-chosen second hand kit. It's true that there can be excellent bargains available to beginners via the club, but my own experience has also shown that it pays to be vary of unsolicited offers from some club "wheeler dealers" who are all too ready to offload some crappy old outdated rubbish onto unfortunately gullible learners. My advice would be to visit a club, do your research, watch for those flyers who actually fly, operate their models efficiently and without lots of problems and seek their advice. Avoid the non-flying "club expert" who is full of "common sense" advice and has that much repaired trainer, clapped out engine and old four channel radio which would be ideal for a beginner in his loft. The same goes for online forums incidentally - watch out for terrible advice that may be given by non-flyers, awash with outdated opinion and zero practical experience, coupled with preconceived and long held old wives' tales. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddleSticks Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Brian Cooper said: The main problem is finding the new novices. Whenever we are at the local park with the foamies, the first thing anyone will ask me is "Whats the range on that then?" People ARE interested in the hobby, they are just busy or struggling. Our first foamie (as mentioned on P3) cost £50. That's a lot to me - I am usually struggling with car / van repairs, fuel costs etc. This year we did well, I'd managed to save up some money and we went to the SMS and I was tooled up with £300 to spend. Problem is though that the full on RC stuff is pricey - yes it's far better than it once was, I don't deny that but even now to get a decent 6+channel transmitter you're still looking at several hundred quid from the main brands or you take the risk of one of those cheaper sets from online which .. well.. I'm personally a bit skeptical about. After the TX you then got Rx, servos, engine.. the engines ain't cheap either! Go leccy? Chargers, batteries, ESCs... Yes it can be done a lot cheaper these days I admit to that - like I said my son picked up a RC Lima IV for a tenner (with tranny) 2nd hand - I've flown it in the kitchen several times and after a DIY shaft straighten, it flies brilliantly (unlike my identical one which I still need to sort lol - got that for £1.20 from ebay and it flew perfectly too until i hit the freezer with it). I guess it's a matter of perspective. I got the Spektrum DX7 with the £200 helicopter I bought. Heli was a bit screwed up (fuel filter on the pressure line from the silencer for example) but the guy had clearly got an expensive setup so for me it was worth it but like I said, the DX7 currently only gets used with the Delta Ray One. Anyway yes it's cheaper than it was but I prefer to get hold of decent kit for radio / engine / servo if possible and decent kit isn't cheap. Mind you.. neither is maintaining a vehicle and I'm managing that.. (just) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Brian Cooper said: Yup, I am in two clubs. We offer endless, free, trial flights to novices. We offer free tuition to novices. There are no waiting lists for novices. We sometimes have suitable equipment for sale for novices to buy. Sometimes we give it away for free to junior novices. The main problem is finding the new novices. A bit of a vicious circle I find. Twenty plus years ago we had a fairly steady flow of new flyers wishing to learn, maybe half a dozen annually - our club membership was much younger then and established and experienced members seemed more willing to take up training roles when in their forties and fifties - most of the new chaps made the grade, lasted a few years and then moved on. Some remain with us and became instructors themselves, but nowhere near enough. FF twenty five years....... fewer experienced instructors, as most feel that they've done their bit and prefer with advancing age to have a bit more 'me time' and not get locked into a regular commitment. Fewer newcomers faced with a shortage of instructors (who because of less need of their services recently, tend to drift away from instructing) and it all soon falls apart. Just something I've observed personally over the last decade or so - not saying it's universal, some clubs remain well switched on in terms of helping tyros. I must say that my own club, although not over subscribed with instructors, does do its best to help new flyers, although it does worry me that we rely on the good offices of only a couple of members who do their best to help out. Both are in their mid-sixties...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 My other favourite hunting ground is our two local dumps. Have you seen the price of paint these days...........insane. Our dumps are happy for me to take whatever paints I want from the ever ever increasing pile of nearly full tins. Light ply, ply in general, bits of alloy sheet, etc. etc. Make friends with the dump bods......you know it makes sense!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 There is no formal instruction at any of my current clubs, but help is at hand for beginners looking for pointers, or even accompanied flights. No buddy box system in use, no flying test and little or no take up of the achievement scheme. It is very laid back indeed, but there are no different additional restrictions on beginners flying than for other members. That is in stark contrast to my previous club down in England, where we had formalised training, strictly no solo flying by beginners. a mandatory flying test before solo, initially the club's own test, but then became the BMFA "A" test. The club maintained a current list of Club Approved instructors and at first just one, but later a second BMFA examiner. It's a dozen years since I moved north so that might have changed somewhat, but it was a much more structured environment in which to learn. Since I can now fly I do prefer the very laid back system, but if I was a beginner I'm sure I would prefer the more formal approach. It did reap huge benefits for that club, in terms of increased safety over a period of moving a couple of hundred yards to a new site and I don't believe that we would have been able to operate in that location with the less structured approach that we had initially. I'm not sure what others feel is a better experience for a beginner - just being allowed to get on with it themselves, with advice, but no formal training, or following a well established training regimen and being tied to a trainer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 It's a matter of striking a balance and using a system that works for any particular club. My own view is that given the number of failures, crashes, frustration and amounts of money wasted if a beginner is left pretty much to their own devices, a reasonably structured system where mistakes and errors can be avoided based on the hard experience of a regular instructor is invaluable. Given the basics alone after a short intro and then a cheery "away you go" doen't strike me as benificial to anyone. Fly....crash....learn repeat and so on. Maybe some still follow this path. I recall reading somewhere that "if you're not crashing, you're not learning" - imagine that if training for a PPL! One doesn't usually learn to drive in a haphazard way any more, and I'd say that learning to fly R/C is every bit as challenging to a newcomer as the basics of driving and ideally, should be viewed in pretty much the same way. I don't like unnecessary fuss and bureaucracy (the hi-viz, badged and clipboard brigade etc😉) and balk at instances of turning the process of learning R/C into huge song and dance - it's not needed, but does benefit from a little structure and organisation so that a beginner knows where they stand and has realistic targets to meet. The old 'Up and Away' BMFA teaching manual for pupils and instructors by John Long published many years ago was first class and I used that as my instructors 'bible' for many years, albeit with a few extra personal preferences that I thought were worthwhile. Still have my copy and it's still all relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 That is in stark contrast to my previous club down in England, where we had formalised training, strictly no solo flying by beginners. a mandatory flying test before solo, initially the club's own test, but then became the BMFA "A" test. The club maintained a current list of Club Approved instructors and at first just one, but later a second BMFA examiner. It's a dozen years since I moved north so that might have changed somewhat, but it was a much more structured environment in which to learn. More or less exactly what we do. Seems to work very well!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Ditto both clubs I belong to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 4 hours ago, FiddleSticks said: Whenever we are at the local park with the foamies, the first thing anyone will ask me is "Whats the range on that then?" Kids ask some questions. The thick kids usually ask if you can crash it.. (they just want to see one crash). The bright kids usually have the same ten inquisitive questions. 1). How much do they cost? 2). How fast can they go? 3). How high can they go? 4). How far can they go? 5). How big can they be? 6). What fuel do they use? 7). How long can they stay up for? 8). Are they easy to fly? 9). How old do you have to be to fly one? 10). Can I have a go........ please? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, SIMON CRAGG said: My other favourite hunting ground is our two local dumps. Have you seen the price of paint these days...........insane. Our dumps are happy for me to take whatever paints I want from the ever ever increasing pile of nearly full tins. Light ply, ply in general, bits of alloy sheet, etc. etc. Make friends with the dump bods......you know it makes sense!. There's a big sign up at my local dump which says it is illegal to remove anything from the recycling centre. Your "dump bods" may be risking their jobs by letting you take stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 @FiddleSticks Sadly, being curious rarely equates to actually heing interested enough to take the next step. I'll see a nice bicycle and ask questions because I am curious, not interested in buying or riding one. By 'main brands' I presume you mean Spektrum or Futaba.... I won't bad mouth those - but you can get mainstream, and popular brands like Radiomaster, FrSky, Flysky for less. Significantly less in the case of FlySky (around £60 for a 10 channel transmitter plus receiver)...we have a number of these in our club and I have never seen any issues. Or with FrSky, Radiomaster. Only seen a single Jumper, which seems fine. Never seen Radiolink or Turnigy. Beware of brand snobbery in kits, engines, radio - visit a club and see what they actually use.... they may even give free advice on a potential purchase.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 21 minutes ago, Wingman said: There's a big sign up at my local dump which says it is illegal to remove anything from the recycling centre. Your "dump bods" may be risking their jobs by letting you take stuff. It's difficult enough to persuade the Unterscharführer at our local tip to let you put some rubbish in the skip, let alone take anything out! 😉 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Wingman said: There's a big sign up at my local dump which says it is illegal to remove anything from the recycling centre. Your "dump bods" may be risking their jobs by letting you take stuff. It's the same at our local tip. OTOH the guys there are extremely helpful and often help carrying the stuff from the car - particularly when it's the little (and lovely) old lady I'm married to 🙂 I think it's misguided because it must be better to reuse or recycle than dump stuff without any intermediate steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 2 hours ago, leccyflyer said: It's difficult enough to persuade the Unterscharführer at our local tip to let you put some rubbish in the skip, let alone take anything out! 😉 Very happy to take stuff at our tip. The Credit card machine is warmed up, and ready to charge for stuff on the ever expanding list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 4 hours ago, Wingman said: There's a big sign up at my local dump which says it is illegal to remove anything from the recycling centre. Can you imagine how that would go in court? "Accused took a piece of old plywood from the skip your honour" "Off with his head..." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 30 minutes ago, Phil Green said: Can you imagine how that would go in court? "Accused took a piece of old plywood from the skip your honour" "Off with his head..." Tip Staff are wearing bodycams now, so can get video evidence. Maybe not beheading for first offence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Anyway taking apiece of wood from the skip and making a model from it IS recycling! 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 (edited) 16 hours ago, leccyflyer said: It's difficult enough to persuade the Unterscharführer at our local tip to let you put some rubbish in the skip, let alone take anything out! 😉 My local one let me dive into the skip for some gear a couple of times, but at the Montpellier one the eastern block warriors cut the fencing between 12 and 2pm, and they are off with a van load of metal. Ps, and Yes, I have seen them ! Edited October 24 by Paul De Tourtoulon Ps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Different Councils probably have different rules from the comments so far. There are no signs about taking stuff at either of the dumps I go to. Everything is on camera these days. "If you don't ask you don't get" has never been more apt. Speak politely to the bods in the hi viz, ask before you leg it with that tray of brand new Humbrol model paint!. Build relationships, just because they work at the dump, doesn't mean they are idiots. By and large they do a great job. In my experience, they are happy to get shot of stuff, as it saves them a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Our hobby now seems to have evolved into raiding the local tip for discarded rubbish. It's a funny old world sometimes, eh.... 😂 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futura57 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 (edited) 'From the Skip to the Sky' coming to your TV screens soon, from the makers of Scrapheap Challenge, Money for Nothing and Bangers and cash. 🙄 Enough about skips already. Edited October 24 by Futura57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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