BMFA National Flying Centre

[cymaz]

If the meeting is that important..put it on the front page for all to see. Club members have a greater chance of seeing it and then asking their delegate.

I had no idea Peter Disney was going. I will email him or see him at Truro Club sometime and ask him what is going on. Now I will also ask our area chairman.

It seems too cloak and dagger....BMFA should publicise meetings more via the front web page.

[kc]

Dave said the funds would not be drawn from the membership.......in that case where is the money coming from?

Unless the Lottery or the Government are going to pay it's going to come from the money we have already paid and will have to pay!

[Colin Bernard]

I, too, was concerned when I read that negotiations were to start without completion/acceptance of the study, or agreement of the full council, but then in the proposal attached to the agenda for the council meeting I read the following ...

If an offer to purchase is accepted, the BMFA’s financial situation, coupled with expectations of support from our very generous insurance brokers, means that these initial actions through to 2016 require no additional financing via the BMFA’s membership fee.

Extensive information and consultation with our membership will now begin culminating in either an EGM or AGM motion in 2015 seeking to better inform the membership on the details of this project and enlisting their views and hopefully overall support.

Key to this is the fact that a land acquisition of this nature at this time makes good financial sense for the reason that BMFA funds invested currently are receiving virtually no interest while land continues to escalate considerably in value.

So on the basis outlined above it does make good sense to acquire the land now and there does seem to be commitment to get the rank and file membership on board - but let's hope that they do not forget country members!.

As to the impact on BMFA fees, well that will depend on the way the purchase is funded. Some will come from existing funds, donations etc and I guess the remainder via a mortgage of some sort. The proportions of each will affect how much, if any, extra funding is required from the members.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kc]

So the money is coming from the members - it's the fees we paid for years which is money in the bank. If land has gone up considerably then there will be a time when it goes down steeply as well.  Buying at the top of the market is poor financial strategy.

Buying a flying field in every county would lessen the risk & make more sense than investing all the BMFA funds in one place where only a minority will be able to use it regularly.

Surely this is the time when a ModelFlying Poll is needed........

"Do you want a fancy centre near Leicester or a plain field in every county?" What about it Moderators?

Edited By kc on 01/05/2015 12:45:51

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Peter I stated the April meeting because that vote led to the Chairmans proposal. I asked a question because I could not view the whole bulletin, how else do I learn anything if I don't ask ? Manny sent me a link explaining the reasons, could you not have posted one ? rather than explain democracy and tell me about doing voluntary work again. And as others have already said how do you expect Country members to know anything if the clubs get a Bulletin and they don't get the information at the same time they amount to 1/4 of the membership.

John

[kc]

Percy we cannot leave the BMFA because all affiliated clubs have to have 100percent BMFA members. Are their any clubs that dont belong to BMFA and get their nsurance.elsewhere?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

A few years back our club Chairman sourced membership for the club privately K.C wasn't difficult. It went to the AGM for a vote and we voted against (myself included), can't remember the source just now though.

John

[David P Williams]

I know the area where this proposed site is fairly well - it's just south of the busy A47, next door to a haulage depot, across the road from a landfill/hazardous waste dump, so there's plenty of noise around there already. However, it's well inside the Wittering MATZ, almost on the extended centreline of the runway, and not far from light aircraft airfields at Sibson and Spanhoe. Even though Wittering is not very active now, it was extremely active until recently, and may well be in the future. Wouldn't have thought it was an ideal location from a clear airspace point of view.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by David P Williams on 01/05/2015 17:18:03:

I know the area where this proposed site is fairly well - it's just south of the busy A47, next door to a haulage depot, across the road from a landfill/hazardous waste dump, so there's plenty of noise around there already. However, it's well inside the Wittering MATZ, almost on the extended centreline of the runway, and not far from light aircraft airfields at Sibson and Spanhoe. Even though Wittering is not very active now, it was extremely active until recently, and may well be in the future. Wouldn't have thought it was an ideal location from a clear airspace point of view.

It's a good job nothing's been decided then

[Peter Jenkins]

Not sure how many are aware but any member can register to get the Club Bulletin. You just need to go to the Club Bulletin page and enter your name and email address. You can also go to the News page and subscribe to that and while you are there you'll find the Full Council Agenda there as well. Hope that helps you to keep up to date.

[cymaz]

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 01/05/2015 20:12:39:

Not sure how many are aware but any member can register to get the Club Bulletin. You just need to go to the Club Bulletin page and enter your name and email address. You can also go to the News page and subscribe to that and while you are there you'll find the Full Council Agenda there as well. Hope that helps you to keep up to date.

Thanks for that. I have subscribed. I will send these out to club members.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep can't fault that either. Thank you

John

Edited By john stones 1 on 01/05/2015 20:28:02

[Erfolg]

Cymaz has broadly outlined many of my own thoughts.

On this forum, many have sought to portray the BMFA structure as a model of Democracy. If this democracy, i am not sure how dictators behave,

Where was the consultation with the membership, the opportunity for the membership to view the viability study, to make their views known.

My concerns still remain, how will the purchase be funded and possibly just as important how the facility can be run economically.

Then there is the concern if anew bespoke dedicated facility is mooted, where does the money come from and again how will the continuos running be funded.

Perhaps my greatest concern is the lack of real communication with the grass root members, never mind club or area representation. There is a line from a famous playwright "Something in the state of Denmark smells"

Edited By Erfolg on 01/05/2015 20:49:28

[TheFlyingCrust]

If you're interested I found the results from the Survey here.

I don't really know what to thing regarding the National Centre. I suppose it seems like a good idea. It would remove the need to rely on other "landowners" (i.e. MoD) to make event sites available. If asked would I support it? I think yes.

But what has concerned me is that I've only learned about the project from this Forum. I rejoined the BMFA in 2010 and at no time since then did I receive any communication from BMFA about the survey. Its not been a very democratic process in my opinion. At minimum there ought to have been a notice for Club Secretary's to bring the survey to the attention of members, at best all members should have been contacted directly. I've had a word with our club secretary and he has no recollection of any notice. Yes I know its been on the BMFA website but how many are that interested that? From my experience of our club I'd say less than 10%

It's a shame that more members haven't been given the opportunity to comment. A more proactive approach would have helped.

Ian

[Peter Jenkins]

Erfolg, and many others who share the views you have expressed above, might wish to read pages 5 and 6 and 9 and 10 of the BMFA handbook (the 2010 version to be precise) where you will see how the BMFA is organised and how members can make their views known. I believe that is how democracy is defined. I think it is shameful to imply that there is a dictatorship running the BMFA.

Voting at AGMs and EGMs is carried out by Clubs’ representatives. If a vote is taken by a show of hands, then each Club gets a single vote. However, if a ballot is taken then a Club reps vote is determined by how many BMFA members are in that Club. Big clubs get more votes than a small club in those circumstances. Postal ballots may be decided by BMFA Council each year in which case all BMFA members may be eligible to vote in such a postal ballot. Council is made up of the Executive, half of whom are elected every other year by one member one vote if there is more than one candidate. The other Council members comprise Area Delegates, voted on every 2 years by the Area Clubs all of whom have the opportunity to attend these Area meetings as well as other representatives from various technical committees. So Council members, for the most part, are not all operating in a remote manner. Do you not think that a topic of this magnitude might be something that Council would consider merited wide consultation across the membership?

Most Area meetings are poorly attended by Clubs – typically single figures for attendance. Do you express the views you have posted on this forum to your Club representative so that they come and express them at the Area Meeting so that the Area Delegate can represent them at Council. That is how our democracy works in the BMFA. Putting your views onto this forum may get noticed or may not. Following the procedure that has been in place for many years is the way the organisation has tried to ensure that all members have the opportunity to participate in decision making.

You ask where has been the opportunity for ordinary members to see the feasibility study and make their views known. Well, the feasibility study is only scheduled to be tabled at the next Council meeting, a link to the agenda for which has been posted on this thread and I’ve shown how you can read it on the BMFA website in the post above. If Council think the feasibility study is worth proceeding with then I’m quite sure that the information will be rolled out to members. I cannot see any point in sending members the feasibility study if Council is not convinced that a case has been made – can you? So please don’t imply that there is some underhand activity going on behind the back of the membership.

The rationale for the Chairman’s proposal to Council to open negotiations for a potential site has been put onto this thread above. It does not mean that the decision to proceed with the NFC is a foregone conclusion. One must also consider that the MoD has yet to give permission for the Nationals to be run at Barkston Heath, although there appear to be reasons to think this might be the case for this year. It is getting increasingly difficult to find suitable venues for such major events given the reduction in size of the Defence Estate. That is the main driver for looking for a NFC as well as seeking to find a way in which the BMFA can further raise the profile of model flying in all its categories.

Finally, I believe that Wittering’s runway runs East-West. The potential site lies a couple of miles to the south of Wittering so I cannot see how this can be described as being on the extended centre line of the runway. Yes, it may be within what was the MATZ but it doesn’t look like the MoD is about to re-activate any dormant airfields any time soon given what we are being told is going to happen to the Defence budget – I suspect that the MATZ problem will be the least of the issues that need to be properly assessed if this proposal is to move forward.

[cymaz]

Posted by TheFlyingCrust on 02/05/2015 01:03:56:

But what has concerned me is that I've only learned about the project from this Forum. I rejoined the BMFA in 2010 and at no time since then did I receive any communication from BMFA about the survey. Its not been a very democratic process in my opinion. At minimum there ought to have been a notice for Club Secretary's to bring the survey to the attention of members, at best all members should have been contacted directly. I've had a word with our club secretary and he has no recollection of any notice. Yes I know its been on the BMFA website but how many are that interested that? From my experience of our club I'd say less than 10%

It's a shame that more members haven't been given the opportunity to comment. A more proactive approach would have helped.

Ian

My thoughts and feelings entirely.....

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Well I am with Cymas again, let's go with a NFC is a great idea and maybe it is. Where was the effort to convince the members of it ? for something that is such a big step the supposed communication has been poor, there should have been a better effort from the BMFA leadership to sell/inform this to its membership, a simple leaflet with your insurance documents would have reached every member then we would have had no excuse for I did not know about it. The main driver is to secure somewhere for the Nats and raise the profile ? Well firstly I would suggest the welfare of the rank and file of our members should be the main driver, not somewhere to hold competitions for the minority who are no doubt well represented at area level meetings. And to the point made about very few club members attending area meetings maybe look at yourselves as to why this is the case, a good number of people have raised some very reasonable concerns/questions and they pretty much get dismissed or labelled as negative or anti BMFA. I think planning permissions are likely to have a bigger say in this than members ever will, I hope you prove me wrong but sadly I can't see it.

John

[Bob Cotsford]

I don't keep the BMFA newsletters but I could have sworn this idea had a mention some time before the survey took place.

As regards threats to the proposed site, I think the biggest will be noise complaints once Wittering is sold off for housing development - that seems to be the norm for any undeveloped area these days.

I hope it goes ahead, who knows, it could be the seed for other sites around the country to be developed if it works out.

[ken anderson.]

probably in theory the NFC is a good idea....the area its sited in will never be ideal as regards to location for a lot of people........we all know in the back of our minds where its going to end up(down south)...and finally out of 30000 +members do you think that the bmfa people will be bothered to take any notice of what people are saying on this forum......................be it positive or negative...I think they may pay lip service to our views but that will be it.....my opinion anyway..

 

ken Anderson...ne...1 opinion dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 02/05/2015 09:32:38

[John Privett]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 02/05/2015 08:54:52:

I don't keep the BMFA newsletters but I could have sworn this idea had a mention some time before the survey took place.

I'm sure it has too, and in another thread Andy Symons pointed out that it's been mentioned in at least 3 copies of the BMFA News - a publication sent to every member, as well as the Club Bulletins.

So we have people complaining that the BMFA never tells them anything. And yet we also have people telling us that the BMFA News goes straight in the bin when they receive it. Hmmm....

[Erfolg]

Peter

Writing rules, creating structures of authority does not automatically create a democratic structure. Many regimes that many have disapproved of, had a structure of representation, yet many in Europe saw the set up for what they have been.

I do attend our local area meetings. This proposal has not been discussed.

I am also a member of a Professional Institute, it has + 110,000 members, it may surprise some, it communicate far more directly with the membership, than the BMFA. Ordinary members are encouraged to participate far more directly.

There is no need to have a structure of representation of decision making which is both convoluted, ridden with archaic rules with respect to representation. I have made my views known previously and will continue to press for decisions to be pushed down to members. Less centralised decision making without direct support from the members. The area committees do excellent work, again i would prefer more power to AC, with a corresponding reduction in centres role. The centre becoming a coordinating body.

This organisation has existed in a number of forms for over 50 years, there is no need to rush into the apparent actions that appear to have been taken. To many it comes close to confirmation a fait accompli with regards  a NC

Edited By Erfolg on 02/05/2015 10:15:56

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Well just maybe on an issue as big as this a different method of communication was called for, as by your own admission very few read the mag or visit the website.

John

[iqon]

I think there has been a lot of publicity, pity it was mostly on forums......