The real Ron Truth Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Chris, I understand your point but the law has already made a singular definition of model aircraft -SUSA. We are therefore all in the same basket, legally speaking. After all, i could make a scale model of a predator drone and circumvent the definition of a scale model. Im not sure it would be a bad thing to accept that this hobby will get some form of regulation as it would also bring some form of legal recognition and protection. Club sites and pilots that are registered can easily be differentiated from those who are not. The big , big problem we have now though is now the CAA act in light of brexit and potentially loosing the connection with EASA. The EASA definition of model aircraft did at least recognise us and give us some airspace. What if the CAA decided to go the way of Ireland ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Posted by The real Ron Truth on 14/09/2016 07:29:59: We are therefore all in the same basket, legally speaking. After all, i could make a scale model of a predator drone and circumvent the definition of a scale model. Even if you meant that flippantly, it's actually a very good point. Defining a scale model is actually far from trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I emailed EASA with some comments and thoughts...all positive. They came back within 8 hrs with a response more positive than I expected. Essentially they said that they welcomed input from individuals (of course they say that) but they are still working on the issue, in their minds, of drones and model aircraft and ultimately how to reduce the number of airprox. They said that they are far from the end of the road and there is a long way to go before anything becomes formally enacted. Keep calm and carry on is the main message I get from them and although they are out of their depth, they don't appear to be faceless wonders ruling over us all. As I said in an earlier post, draft regs will be published and they revised accordingly over time or devolved to member states. Edited By ChrisB on 14/09/2016 10:14:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devcon1 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 As a slight aside. An interesting announcement from SKY about quad racing. Don't seem to be able to post a link from my mobile. But basically a big media investment and exposure for racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 This one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devcon1 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Yup, beat me to it. Just got back to my desktop but too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I think we should wait until after 11th Oct and if EASA are still going to be allowed to regulate model aircraft, we should all e-mail them saying we've red the prototype proposals and don't understand them, explain what, where and how long we've been flying and ask them what impact their proposals will have so we can comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Posted by The real Ron Truth on 14/09/2016 07:29:59: Chris, I understand your point but the law has already made a singular definition of model aircraft -SUSA. We are therefore all in the same basket, legally speaking. After all, i could make a scale model of a predator drone and circumvent the definition of a scale model Im not sure it would be a bad thing to accept that this hobby will get some form of regulation as it would also bring some form of legal recognition and protection. Club sites and pilots that are registered can easily be differentiated from those who are not. The big , big problem we have now though is now the CAA act in light of brexit and potentially loosing the connection with EASA. The EASA definition of model aircraft did at least recognise us and give us some airspace. What if the CAA decided to go the way of Ireland. No, a model aircraft is a UAV until you fit a camera to it, when it becomes a SUSA. So your scale model, whether it is a Predator drone or a Tiger Moth (or a MR for that matter) is a UAV - until you fit a camera to it. Not much confusion there and on that basis we are not all in the same basket. I don't know why you say you don't think it would be a bad thing for this hobby to accept some form of regulation. It is already regulated by the ANO, as explained in CAP 658 and very sensible it is too. So you think that the EASA regulations will give us legal recognition and protection? Words fail me! If the prototype document becomes law we can all throw our RC equipment away as the replacement will require GPS so that we can be subject to geo-fencing. Before every flight we will need to initialise the equipment so it knows where it is. You will also need to ensure that the software is up to date as airspace boundaries frequently change. That will be a legal requirement and the updates won't be free. Every model you own will need to be registered, you will probably have to wait weeks for the paperwork to come back with the registration number, which you will be required to clearly display on the model. The fees may be small to begin with but the scheme will be expensive to administer, so that cost will ultimately get passed on to us. I have seen the complication, bureaucracy and escalating cost created by EASA (formally JAR-Ops) to professional and sport aviation over the last few years. Lets just hope that our CAA are still allowed to recognise model flying as a separate entity to 'camera flying' and the separate requirements and risks associated with each hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The real Ron Truth Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Sounds like a good idea from EASA. Anyone who flies within controlled airspace should accept some form of restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 You already do, you need permission from the ATC unit concerned. Anything below 400ft is not a threat to full sized aircraft unless they are taking off or landing in which case you shouldn't be there with your model in any event. That is, unless of course you are a club operating from an full sized airstrip with the operators permission and everyone is briefed; full sized and model pilots. I can't see that registering every model you fly and geofencing is going to improve things for the average model flyer or improve safety for the public in general. It is a paperwork exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 That's only partially correct, Piers - other than complying with the legal requirement not to endanger other aircraft (e.g. flight under approach paths), sub 7kg models can be flown in controlled airspace without any legal restrictions. It seems fairly usual for ATC to grant permission for larger models up to 400' AGL within controlled airspace for the reason you quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I know a lot of clubs that fly in an ATZ, and all function perfectly safely and well will a range of models, large and small. My club has been flying at a full size strip in uncontrolled airspace for 10years. Absolutely no issues or conflicts at all. Set protocol and rules and all works swimmingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolstonFlyer Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On the other side of the coin I was talking to a local estate agents yesterday who where thinking of getting a 'drone' to take commercial photographs of houses and land ect "because all of their competitors are doing it". He had no idea about any regulations / insurance / caa or anything. They were quite prepared to go online and buy a DJI Phantom 4 and fly it over peoples houses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 With respect to commercial operations such as Estate Agents and the sort of thing that BEB does, any financial implications tend to be of much lower priority, in that some one else will often foot the bill. What ever the regs tun out to be, this group will flourish. Us as hobbyist could well be priced out of our hobby. Another aspect is that initially any new scheme will often be bearable for the commercial world. However over time the regs tend to drift to capture many more groups that start ot with exceptions.This is where my youngster with a chuck glider or kite comes in. Although I can moan about this drift, there is nothing I can do to resist. This is where the BMFA comes in, as long as it recognises it represents us FF and RC hobbyist and can resist the desire to represent all of the small aerial vehicle operators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Posted by WolstonFlyer on 16/09/2016 15:05:59: On the other side of the coin I was talking to a local estate agents yesterday who where thinking of getting a 'drone' to take commercial photographs of houses and land ect "because all of their competitors are doing it". He had no idea about any regulations / insurance / caa or anything. They were quite prepared to go online and buy a DJI Phantom 4 and fly it over peoples houses! And herein lies the crux of the problem. While we fight a rearguard action to preserve our credibility these idiots are still undermining us in complete ignorance of the law. They genuinely haven't even stopped to consider that there may be any relevant law because "Everone else is doing it". Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Good development - and as predicted common sense will prevail. We hope BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Phew, at least it proves that they are listening to feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 All is not lost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 It shows that across Europe and the world we can be influential. The response I got from EASA told me that they had underestimated us and the hobby as a whole. I suspect all will be well, with perhaps a few minor changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 What it appears to show is that collective pressure, from many countries and , by discussion and all other means of coordinated and ad-hoc efforts can at least initiate a pause, hopefully for real reconsideration. I hope for the best, what ever that is for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Looks like the EMFU has now officially been formed with the BMFA and LMA both actively involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Of all the initials they could have chosen and they chose those! Perhaps a quick rethink is due. Edited By kc on 20/11/2016 08:47:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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