How bad can things get

[Sam Longley]

I expect that this will break forum rules but I do feel that experiences with suppliers should be aired if true & fair

Following 3 unexplained crashes in different planes , one just after take off when I was hardly touching the sticks, my Jive went from a gentle glide into a sudden uncontrollable spin. The clubs senior instructor, having watched it, suggested that my Futaba 14SG was almost cetainly the problem.

So on the 16 June I sent it to Ripmax.

Now I understand that until the beginning of July they were on Furlough, but at least a nice lady (working from home) did return a call to confirm that they have received it.

Since then I have had only one reply to a request to information,(from the same nice lady) confirming that they did return to work end of June. However, now the phone is constantly on answerphone. I understand model shops find Ripmax a pretty difficult company to deal with, but this is just  frustrating & as a private user I have no leverage.

Surely they can tell me if/when they intend to look at my transmitter. At least give me a contact so that I can open a dialogue with someone about progress.

I cannot afford a new transmitter just yet. That means that my flying has come to a halt. If it means a new transmitter, it will be one bought from outside the UK & not from this company.

Edited By Sam Longley on 28/07/2020 18:48:30

[Stephen Smith 14]

Ripmax, another 5 or 6 months at least.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Ripmax was never an impressive company and seems to have been in slow decline for the last few years.

It's a bit late now obviously but ideally you should have returned it to the shop you purchased it from (which was  your 'supplier' in UK law)  and tell (NOT ask) them to sort it out. If they fail or attempt to 'pass the buck' it's them you sue or take other action against. First 'other action' should be mention of UK consumer protection laws. And 'face to face' in the shop is better than phone calls, emails etc.

If you 'personally' buy from abroad UK laws don't apply of course. And EU laws will cease to apply soon.

My personal choice is call Mike Ridley of 'Model Radio Workshop' (with whom I have no connection) and if he is not an official service agent for whatever make of radio you have in mind buy something else. (Though he MAY be able fix other makes if he has, or can get, the parts.).

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 28/07/2020 19:52:48

[Ray Wood 4]

Hi Sam,

I'd buy a cheap set to keep flying 😀

Regards Ray

[Jon H]

While i completely understand your annoyance and frustration try to consider things from the other side.

We (laser) sent components for hardening about 2 days after your tranny went in and we still dont have them back.Its a right pain as i cant finish anything. I have an engine in for repair waiting for one of those parts.

I cant speak for Ripmax directly, but if they only have a skeleton crew on hand they cant spend all day on the phone as they wouldnt get any work done. This could be why the phone is being ignored and i really struggle with people who request constant updates as i can only do one thing at a time. Do you want me to call everyone with updates on work, or would you rather i just got on with it and finished it quicker? I know your answer will be 'but it only takes 5 minutes to call me' and that might be true, but what if there are 50 5 minute calls to make to angry customers wanting their stuff fixed? its not like yours is the only radio in for repair or only thing that needs to be sorted out as i think rmx are still the futaba agent for the whole of europe? and i doubt more than 2 blokes are doing all the work.

As for returning it to a shop and threatening them...grow up mate. The shop will do nothing other than send it to ripmax as they are entitled to return it to the uk service agent for diagnosis and fault finding. You might be able to go and yell at them, but yelling at people when you want them to help you is not likely to work out too well. 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 28/07/2020 19:58:15

[Chris Walby]

+1 For Ray's comment, its Murphy's law when you want to use your TX, it will be the time it plays up and has to go for repair.

IMHO see if you can get through and ask when they think it will be ready, then wait until its overdue and chase again if it hasn't turned up. Contact Mike Ridley of 'Model Radio Workshop' and see if he can repair it then ask them to post it back and send it on to him.

PS - speaks the man with three glow sticks, but only ever uses one!

[Paul Marsh]

Why don't you buy another TX anyway, say you can't afford one, but they are fairly cheap, now and just put it on credit card. You are not flying because of it, and not put all your eggs in one basket. I have several tx's of many makes, and if one goes down, I have another. For example, have a spare DX6 just in case the main one goes down.

As for Ripmax, can't say, but seems they are a shadow of their former self. (Spektrum had problems until fairly recently), but seems to be sorted out.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 28/07/2020 19:53:06:

While i completely understand your annoyance and frustration try to consider things from the other side.

We (laser) sent components for hardening about 2 days after your tranny went in and we still dont have them back.Its a right pain as i cant finish anything. I have an engine in for repair waiting for one of those parts.

I cant speak for Ripmax directly, but if they only have a skeleton crew on hand they cant spend all day on the phone as they wouldnt get any work done. This could be why the phone is being ignored and i really struggle with people who request constant updates as i can only do one thing at a time. Do you want me to call everyone with updates on work, or would you rather i just got on with it and finished it quicker? I know your answer will be 'but it only takes 5 minutes to call me' and that might be true, but what if there are 50 5 minute calls to make to angry customers wanting their stuff fixed? its not like yours is the only radio in for repair or only thing that needs to be sorted out as i think rmx are still the futaba agent for the whole of europe? and i doubt more than 2 blokes are doing all the work.

As for returning it to a shop and threatening them...grow up mate. The shop will do nothing other than send it to ripmax as they are entitled to return it to the uk service agent for diagnosis and fault finding. You might be able to go and yell at them, but yelling at people when you want them to help you is not likely to work out too well.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 28/07/2020 19:58:15

All very true. But if they try to slime their way out of it, as some often do, you don't have to yell, just be quietly firm and if they argue mention consumer protection law and the local 'weights and measures' people or whatever they are called these days.

Personally I give everyone two chances and if they fail both times that's it. But I don't buy in the first place if I see a number of bad reports. We always have other choices. .

For example there are two 'fly fishing' shops near me. One I would never use as they invariably (and illegally) try to pass the buck to the distributor or manufacturer. The other, American owned and established for over 150 years, gives you a replacement instantly, if you find whatever they have sold you unsatisfactory. Their own brand products have a 'no question' 25 year warranty, instantly performed by replacement or if obsolete a new equivalent. They are of course my 'go to' shop.

From the customer's position you are a good choice, being all of manufacturer, UK distributor, and legal 'supplier'. and also have an excellent reputation. And in the present situation 99% of people will make allowances.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Has anyone actually stated that the transmitter in question is under warranty?

[Martin McIntosh]

About three years ago I sent a Tx and 3 Rx`s back to HK UK branch because they had the wrong s/w; not a major problem. I would still be waiting if I had not demanded it all back after three months of inactivity and got my Rx`s plus a complete new 10ch set.

Also trying to buy a Doblo from a friend today but the DVLA site the insurers use rejects the vehicle since it is an MPV, not a van or a car. Needless to say that the DVLA email, on line chat and phones are out of use `due to Covid`. If I got a parking ticket tomorrow they would no doubt be available to give my details and it would be on the doormat before I got home.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Martin Harris on 28/07/2020 21:21:48:

Has anyone actually stated that the transmitter in question is under warranty?

Under UK law 'satisfactory performance' and 'good service/repair' last WAY longer than the 'free' warranty period.

[Paul C.]

Are you sure the problem is in the tx and not the rx, always best to send both back for testing. I assume the servos ,leads etc have been checked by the club expert .

l

[Callsign Tarnish]

To add some balance here they've serviced / repaired / mode swapped a few tx's for me over the years, the most recent was earlier this year just before COVID hit. Phoned on day one to arrange, dropped off day 2 lunchtime, got the call to say it was done at 4pm, collected on day three.

Sorry you're having a bad experience but let's be cautious of trial by Internet.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 28/07/2020 21:49:39:

Posted by Martin Harris on 28/07/2020 21:21:48:

Has anyone actually stated that the transmitter in question is under warranty?

Under UK law 'satisfactory performance' and 'good service/repair' last WAY longer than the 'free' warranty period.

Absolutely agree - and have argued similar cases with good results - but damage or fair wear and tear isn't covered and there's no real indication that the transmitter is faulty other than someone's probably unqualified opinion. It may not have been appropriate to flex legal responsibility muscles so sending it to the agent for testing for an unconfirmed and possibly intermittent fault may have been the appropriate action, especially if the transmitter is several years old.

I haven't had any cause to deal with Ripmax for a few years but I got excellent response by contacting one of the directors by email and they readily agreed to honour their legal responsibilities on a manufacturing fault on an unused but (openly disclosed) second hand OS engine which was several years old.

Sam, I would continue to try to contact them and if no reply, send a registered letter to their office asking for your property back if they are unable to respond in a timely manner. You could try an email to [email protected] first if you haven't already done so.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Martin Harris on 28/07/2020 23:22:27:

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 28/07/2020 21:49:39:

Posted by Martin Harris on 28/07/2020 21:21:48:

Has anyone actually stated that the transmitter in question is under warranty?

Under UK law 'satisfactory performance' and 'good service/repair' last WAY longer than the 'free' warranty period.

Absolutely agree - and have argued similar cases with good results - but damage or fair wear and tear isn't covered and there's no real indication that the transmitter is faulty other than someone's probably unqualified opinion. It may not have been appropriate to flex legal responsibility muscles so sending it to the agent for testing for an unconfirmed and possibly intermittent fault may have been the appropriate action, especially if the transmitter is several years old.

I haven't had any cause to deal with Ripmax for a few years but I got excellent response by contacting one of the directors by email and they readily agreed to honour their legal responsibilities on a manufacturing fault on an unused but (openly disclosed) second hand OS engine which was several years old.

Sam, I would continue to try to contact them and if no reply, send a registered letter to their office asking for your property back if they are unable to respond in a timely manner. You could try an email to [email protected] first if you haven't already done so.

And I agree with you. Especially so in this case where there is no solid evidence of a fault. But is is not the quality or lack thereof of Ripmax's fixes that is the issue here, it is the time it is taking.

And you shouldn't need to call a Ripmax 'high up' to get a response that satisfied you.

As for me I use Multiplex radio as it one of the only three (the others being Spektrum's DSMX and Futaba's FASST) that use 'true' spread spectrum, making its radio link extremely robust. Though Multiplex build quality is no better than 'average'.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 29/07/2020 09:40:17

[Sam Longley]

For the record- 3 different planes with 3 different sets of gear. Transmitter is out of warranty, I assume, as it is over 2 years old.

If I buy another tranny it will mean another load of receivers if they do not match the transmitter. I bought the 14SG for backward compatibility & now have about 10 receivers, so cost is not inconsiderable.

I do not think that a 6EX would work on the higher spec receivers (forget the numbers) only on a 617 receiver. I think that is correct although I have not checked. So it is not the case of just buying a new tranny. A new 14SG is £ 379-00 on its own

I did not know about the service chap mentioned above & if I get the tranny back I will follow the lead, so thanks for that one.

 

Edited By Sam Longley on 29/07/2020 10:01:42

[kc]

Personally i believe that it's better to dump any Tx or Rx that shows the slightest glitch. Therefore better to buy a basic Tx rather than an expensive one that you cannot afford to scrap! The first crash would have been enough for me to scrap the gear if no definite problem was solved. After 3 crashes the gear damage probably exceeds the cost of a Tx........

However before dumping the Tx it would be wise to make sure there was no other common item in the 3 crashes - I would have looked carefully at the battery charging system if that was common to all 3 crashes. Possibly all 3 Rx batteries were charged on the same charger? The Tx too.

Finally it would be a pretty poor club that didn't have someone to lend you a Tx for a few flights. Bet there is someone with a spare 35mhz at least!

[Denis Watkins]

Great advice on here Sam,

Get your gear back, and get it checked by Mike Ridley.

Or do as I do, as I regard Futaba gear bullet proof.I

Using normal power, not reduced range

I drive to the gate on our field, which is 800 feet away, while a colleague holds the model down at the pilots box

I operate the surfaces whilst he twist and turns the model signalling ok that all surfaces are moving.

I fly I/C, so can have the receiver in the shadow of servos, a lump of motor metal and a flight battery.

Momentarily, your rx will be in shadow, but 2.4ghz is designed to reaquire and does.

Receivers are so small now that their is no need to bury then behind servos

I have receivers in the cockpit of 2 models disguised as radio

Get your gear back, and test it yourself

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Sam Longley on 29/07/2020 10:01:15:

For the record- 3 different planes with 3 different sets of gear. Transmitter is out of warranty, I assume, as it is over 2 years old.

If I buy another tranny it will mean another load of receivers if they do not match the transmitter. I bought the 14SG for backward compatibility & now have about 10 receivers, so cost is not inconsiderable.

I do not think that a 6EX would work on the higher spec receivers (forget the numbers) only on a 617 receiver. I think that is correct although I have not checked. So it is not the case of just buying a new tranny. A new 14SG is £ 379-00 on its own

I did not know about the service chap mentioned above & if I get the tranny back I will follow the lead, so thanks for that one.

Edited By Sam Longley on 29/07/2020 10:01:42

I didn't know that but three different setups is good evidence.

Mike Ridley is excellent but even he couldn't reproduce an intermittent transmitter fault I had - intermittent faults are always difficult to detect unless it's something 'semi-obvious' like a doubtful looking solder joint and even then it's impossible to be certain it was the cause.

I bought a new transmitter and kept the old one for spare knobs, case, display, etc. not that I have needed to use any.

[David Hall 9]

When you get it back, you will inevitably be in the position where you will have to "try it again". Goodness knows if or how many crashes you could have just to confirm a fix. I'd run very extensive tests without flying and then some in a very basic airframe.

In the meantime, I'd be tempted to buy one of the multi protocol transmitters or a Taranis with plug in multimodule, then you can run all your old RXs.

[Dickw]

Posted by David Hall 9 on 29/07/2020 10:53:04:

............................

In the meantime, I'd be tempted to buy one of the multi protocol transmitters or a Taranis with plug in multimodule, then you can run all your old RXs.

Unfortunately the multi protocol modules don't support every Rx and are very limited in their support of Futaba.

Dick

[kc]

Futaba users have a dilemma - if the FASST Tx becomes faulty then it s very expensive to buy another Tx to suit them. So if my 6EX expires it seems it would be cheaper to 'dump' the Rx too and switch to another system! That's why I didn't buy any extra FASST Rx but bought a Spektrum TX and extra Rx to instead.

Also a bit similar with S-FHSS which is not compatible with all the cheaper Tx -some are only T-FHSS.

The only Futaba worthwhile buy Tx at a reasonable price would seem the 6K which does the S-FHSS and the T-FHSS Rx but not the FASST.

So my advice is if most of the Rx you have are S-FHSS or T-FHSS then don't bother to repair the 14SG unless the cost is quite low but instead consider the 6K at about 162 pounds with Rx. It would get you flying and radio gear won't get any cheaper in future. ( actually 162 pounds is about 1980 price for TX & Rx)

My conclusion is that FASST Rx are not going to be worth much s/h - anyone who spends 400 or 500 pounds on a FASST Tx is not going to want s/h Rx. So once the Tx goes wrong they are going to be worth the same as 35 Mhz stuff - useful but little monetary value.

Futaba compatibility chart

Edited By kc on 29/07/2020 17:55:46

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by kc on 29/07/2020 17:51:10:

Futaba users have a dilemma - if the FASST Tx becomes faulty then it s very expensive to buy another Tx to suit them. So if my 6EX expires it seems it would be cheaper to 'dump' the Rx too and switch to another system! That's why I didn't buy any extra FASST Rx but bought a Spektrum TX and extra Rx to instead.

Also a bit similar with S-FHSS which is not compatible with all the cheaper Tx -some are only T-FHSS.

The only Futaba worthwhile buy Tx at a reasonable price would seem the 6K which does the S-FHSS and the T-FHSS Rx but not the FASST.

So my advice is if most of the Rx you have are S-FHSS or T-FHSS then don't bother to repair the 14SG unless the cost is quite low but instead consider the 6K at about 162 pounds with Rx. It would get you flying and radio gear won't get any cheaper in future. ( actually 162 pounds is about 1980 price for TX & Rx)

My conclusion is that FASST Rx are not going to be worth much s/h - anyone who spends 400 or 500 pounds on a FASST Tx is not going to want s/h Rx. So once the Tx goes wrong they are going to be worth the same as 35 Mhz stuff - useful but little monetary value.

Futaba compatibility chart

Edited By kc on 29/07/2020 17:55:46

I think Futaba have completely lost the plot.

They have six different protocols for 'air' and three more for 'surface'. Do they think that an 'air' protocol won't work on the ground and a 'surface' one won't work in the air? How about on the kitchen table? Which protocol should I use for that?

And then there is S-bus and S-bus 2 receivers Not only are there two different sorts but if you use more than 8 channels and don't want to pay the quite high prices for S-bus bits and pieces the only receiver that supports more than 8 'regular' channel costs nearly 200 quid.

I have been looking for a different make than my present transmitter/receivers made by a 'well-known and 75 years established' manufacturer. Not because they are in any way unsatisfactory but because I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket.

The £350 transmitter has 16 channels and a 16 channel receiver cost 130 quid. The smaller ones cost much less.. And all the receivers not only work in the regular way but except for the very cheapest ones support Futaba S-bus and S-bus 2 as well. And together with Futaba FASST and Spektrum DSMX it has the 'equal first' protocol robustness on the market and has stayed with  that protocol from day one, unlike those two.

The cheapest Futaba that even comes close to its functionality is the 18SZ at about a 1000 quid.

So with that faffing about with protocol and busses, and the high price of a half-decent transmitter my 'alternative' won't be Futaba.

Nevertheless I think there is a ready market for used Futaba 2.4 stuff.. There are people who appear to put up with all Futaba's nonsense. Possibly because their actual quality is excellent. Even with my thoughts above I recently came close  to buying their 18 channel FX36. But they have just discontinued it so I'm glad I didn't.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 30/07/2020 05:03:53

[Tim Flyer]

I have Happily used my14sg Futaba radio for the last few years . The 8ch telemetry equipped 7008sb receiver is £84:00 so not that bad . I do have some models where I use more than 8 channels and the use the 14channel 7014sb receiver for those. The price is £164:00 currently.

Given the high overall cost of complex over 8ch models I don’t think £164 for a 14 regular channel receiver is that silly. Some engines and retracts cost five times as much. The whole point for me in choosing Futaba is that I trust their sets to be reliable and very high quality . I am sure other systems might be more sophisticated and have many added features and also be reliable.

I have never had problems with any of my Futaba radios over many years. The only big weakness for me on the high end Futaba radios is their flimsy transmitter antennae which often break.

 

Edited By Tim Flyer on 31/07/2020 10:41:14

Edited By Tim Flyer on 31/07/2020 10:41:33