What makes a good kit ?

[Ron Gray]

For the Hurri undercart I would prefer electric retracts but am more than happy to provide my own oleos as I prefer them to wire legs.

[Alan Hilton]

I would prefer electric retracts for the la7 and olios if available 

 

[Silver Wolf]

Plan to have a laser 80 in the Hurri, never fitted retracts before. Will be a bit of learning for me. Have plenty to do so unlikely to start until retracts available waiting for suitable retracts electrical or mechanical not a problem.

Regards

SW

[David Davis]

I'm in exactly the same situation as Silver Wolf except that I may fit an OS 61FS instead of a Laser 80.

 

I watch with interest.

[Ron Gray]

Oh dear, @David Davis, de facto standard I/C for the Hurri is the ubiquitous Laser 80!

 

Only joshin’ but don’t forget what @RICHARD WILLSsaid about making the nose slightly longer.

[Jon H]

2 hours ago, Silver Wolf said:

Plan to have a laser 80 in the Hurri, never fitted retracts before. Will be a bit of learning for me. Have plenty to do so unlikely to start until retracts available waiting for suitable retracts electrical or mechanical not a problem.

Regards

SW

 

IS this any help?

 

[Silver Wolf]

Certainly a good starting point. Will need to get my head around the various angles, but that’s what makes this hobby so interesting.  Thank you. 
SW

[Ron Gray]

This has been published several times before but well worth showing again

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

I will do a little A4 layout with the retract packs when Ive sorted them . But the basic principal for keeping retracts in foam wings is pretty straightforward and surprisingly forgiving compared to a built up structure . 

Generally I draw round the marine ply retract plate onto the bottom wing skin . Then draw a second square , 3mm further out .

I cut into the skin to a depth of about 25mm . and then sink in vertical grain balsa all round the square , a bit like shoring up a grave !

The ply plate should be a snug fit into the balsa box . If you can keep as much if the foam base to glue to as well , it will help spread the load . 

Mick Reeves used a slight variation , He simply glued the plates onto the bare foam then drilled through each corner and epoxied pointed dowels in like underpins .. All worked rather well . 

[Jon H]

I used 3mm ply but did the same as Richard other than that. My braces also extend a fair way in either direction. 

 

It works well and my Hurricane had a bit of an arrival a few months back and it tore the gear out. As i didnt put triangles under the retract plates they came out pretty clean and left the ply boxes more or less completely undamaged. New plates knocked up we were all fixed. 

 

 

[Victor Arcudi]

I can also vouch for Ron's retract recipe, used it on my old Pilot Spit and it worked great.

[Alan Hilton]

6 hours ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

I will do a little A4 layout with the retract packs when Ive sorted them . But the basic principal for keeping retracts in foam wings is pretty straightforward and surprisingly forgiving compared to a built up structure . 

Generally I draw round the marine ply retract plate onto the bottom wing skin . Then draw a second square , 3mm further out .

I cut into the skin to a depth of about 25mm . and then sink in vertical grain balsa all round the square , a bit like shoring up a grave !

The ply plate should be a snug fit into the balsa box . If you can keep as much if the foam base to glue to as well , it will help spread the load . 

Mick Reeves used a slight variation , He simply glued the plates onto the bare foam then drilled through each corner and epoxied pointed dowels in like underpins .. All worked rather well . 

I have tried both methods and found Richards way the best .On larger models I used 3 mm ply in place of the balsa 

[RICHARD WILLS]

All of the above are variations on the same theme ,so I guess they all work . Foam veneered wings seem far more tolerant to retracts than built up wings . This can only be due to impact absorption of the foam . In contrast , I'm sure we have all flown well designed and built ARTFs like those from Kyosho , that have demolished the retract bearers or simply ripped them out . Certainly my own Spitfire can have trouble keeping its gear in if we dont pay enough detailed attention to installing the plates . 

I know that Paul Johnson experimented with a small rubber shock absorber under the retract unit with some success . 

 

This brings me on to a further thought on "Kits " in general .   

When we started out in modelling , we all assumed that the kit , if built as per the instructions would come out the best way it could.

However , I would encourage those with a few under their belt to consider this . 

The kit is designed so that a wide variety of people's skills can cope with it . Hence items like the self aligning crutch and formers with little tabs . Also , for practical production , some items (like the crutch) are often made of lite ply or similar simply because the material comes in sheets wide enough . 

Light models usually fly better so it is worth adding a bit of your own innovation here particularly if you know the design has a short nose and ballast may be required .  We also tend to spend a lot of time looking at the airframe and chopping out wood wherever we can , but not considering the substantial hardware that each model carries . Think about the pushrods for example . Would we save weight and ballast by running small servos under a hatch in the tail for the rudder and elevator ?

Do servos need to be in a central "traditional " position above the wing ? 

Obviously as "scale buffs " we want a fully sheeted model that looks realistic , but have a look at some of Ivan Pettigrew's designs as they are a fine example of what a minimal structure can look like , 

After all , its fine adding more power to make our models fly , but that comes with a weight penalty unless ballast was required anyway.

That increase then leads to more reinforcement and heavy duty items that will keep the model together during its , now , high speed landings . 

[Ron Gray]

Good points Richard. I can certainly vouch for the rear mounted micro servo approach as I used that in my 110 build. I used servos primarily designed for DLG and F5J gliders so small, light and powerful and these gave me a weight saving over pushrods or snakes and have proved to be more that adequate for that model. The only disadvantage is the cost as they can be quite a bit more expensive.

[Ron Gray]

Referring to the UC, the biggest improvement I made to my warbirds to ‘help’ the mechanism was to use the low bounce wheels as sold by SLEC (Radio Active?). Not only do they absorb a lot of landing shocks they look good and are cheap to boot!

[Bucksboy]

Here’s mine, it’s taken me ages to build it but I flew it yesterday for the first time.  It’s the 63” version with a Laser 80 for power.  I’ll dirty it up a bit but it’s hard to see anything as it screams past.  I explained a while ago, the colours are a bit awry.  A friend painted it for me and I wasn't going to ask him to repaint it.  As I said, when it’s hurtling past it’s hard to see the red cowl!

[Trevor]

Kudos to Richard for actively encouraging builders to adapt and vary his designs in the light of their experience. Interestingly two of my other favourite designers (the aforementioned Ivan Pettigrew and scale glider supremo Chris Williams) are also very open in this respect. Come to think of it, maybe that’s why their designs are so good in the first place!

[Graham Davies 3]

43 minutes ago, Trevor said:

Kudos to Richard for actively encouraging builders to adapt and vary his designs in the light of their experience. Interestingly two of my other favourite designers (the aforementioned Ivan Pettigrew and scale glider supremo Chris Williams) are also very open in this respect. Come to think of it, maybe that’s why their designs are so good in the first place!

Double that. With Richard and Peter Miller's guidance and advice, I am now on the path to my own designs to suit my own needs, After building Richard's Tempest and Yak3, which both fly brilliantly, I am now putting the finishing touches to my own FVVS J-22. If it flies anything like as well as any of Richard's or Peter's designs, I'll be very happy...

 

[Glynn]

Looks good Graham, it's an unusual model and I like the unusual.

[Graham Davies 3]

13 minutes ago, Glynn said:

Looks good Graham, it's an unusual model and I like the unusual.

Thanks Glynn. 

 

Great stickers! 

 

Yes, I'm on a mission to raise awareness of the obscure, odd, and probably unsuccessful! I'm spreading the word to our 10 club members. As a missionary mission, it might take a while...

[RICHARD WILLS]

12 hours ago, Bucksboy said:

Here’s mine, it’s taken me ages to build it but I flew it yesterday for the first time.  It’s the 63” version with a Laser 80 for power.  I’ll dirty it up a bit but it’s hard to see anything as it screams past.  I explained a while ago, the colours are a bit awry.  A friend painted it for me and I wasn't going to ask him to repaint it.  As I said, when it’s hurtling past it’s hard to see the red cowl!

The colours look great to me .  Cracking looking model and you can see why the La7 has become so popular. 

[David Davis]

Richard, put me down for a set of retracts for the Hurricane when they become available.

[RICHARD WILLS]

On 26/09/2021 at 21:34, Graham Davies 3 said:

Thanks Glynn. 

 

Great stickers! 

 

Yes, I'm on a mission to raise awareness of the obscure, odd, and probably unsuccessful! I'm spreading the word to our 10 club members. As a missionary mission, it might take a while...

My Wife said that I'm all of those ........

[RICHARD WILLS]

Anyone ready to start their La7 ? If so , let me know and I will prioritise the retract packs . 

Here is a picture of my second La7 which is still flying with a 52FS (but no longer on 35meg !)  She's a hack but in cracking condition considering the age and number of flights . Vice free and very nimble for an old lady . 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

And very nice the old girl is. ?