Fenced Pilot Boxes - Good or Bad

[Neil67]

A general question.

 

I am a member of three clubs two of which have open pilot 'boxes' i.e. designated by shorter grass cut to the required size. The other has fixed fence style pilot boxes made from robust fence posts and chicken wire.  They are three sided and take two pilots at most.  There has been a discussion about how safe these are as there isn't much room to move around if you lose sight of your model etc. and it's too easy to inadvertently be obstructed by the fence as your eyes are trained on the model.  Myself and other prefer not to use them but certian committee members are not happy.

 

Any comments.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We have none, between pilots and the pits we have a barrier to stop models running in, however there are plusses and minuses to any method. Trick is to agree to one and abide by it.

[Denis Watkins]

Swings and roundabouts Neil.

We have no barrier at my place as there is livestock, and there are regulations that apply to placement of any barriers in fields with livestock, But

With some flyers at my place, I would welcome a fixed fence to protect me from some of the unpredictable landings towards my legs.

[J D 8]

 Just some plastic strips in the ground to mark the box for us, nothing sticking up because of livestock. On a club open day temporary plastic mesh put up.

[leccyflyer]

Personally I like a pilot's box, in preference to folks being dotted about all over the field -since you know where everybody is and it aids inter-pilot communications. One of my clubs has the perfect arrangement, which is a reasonable size, demarked by longer grass, which separates it from the runway by a few metres. For the style of small electric models flown, on a small field it's perfectly fine.

 

For a larger field, with larger models,  I'd expect to see a bigger separation, but still like the pilots box defined by soft landscaping, rather than rigid fences, but can see how those might give a perception of greater safety, if a model should run on, beyond the runway, whilst on the ground. They offer little protection from an errant model in the air.

[Nigel R]

Just a box denoted by short grass at our patch.

 

Like Denis site, we share with livestock.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Scattered pilots are not a good idea at all and a pilot box is, in my opinion, a major contribution to safe operation. 
 

But does it need a physical barrier?

 

While typical barriers I’ve seen on the internet may give a measure of protection, I think they may present more of a problem in providing trip hazards and assistance restrictions.  To hope that an errant model would be stopped by plastic mesh is optimistic - I’ve witnessed a reasonable sized model penetrating the wire link safety fence which we use to protect the pits and car park area at our site. 
 

I would hope that a runaway model would at least be throttled back if running towards the pilot box - self preservation being a great prompt even to a panicking pilot - leading to more confirmation of the value of pilots operating in close proximity.  

 

Should the worst happen, the human body, at the level potentially protected, is probably at its least vulnerable to major consequences and a well placed boot can prevent significant injury. In this respect, although likely to be at tickover, an IC engine, which will probably stall on impact, is less hazardous than EP if the number of times I’ve had to prompt users to cut their throttles after an unfortunate arrival (not always novices!) is anything to go by. 
 

On balance, I think our arrangement of sunken paving slabs and a white line painted around the pilot box (conditions permitting) is conducive to good operating practice. 

[EarlyBird]

We have two cones which define the pilot box. All pilots fly between the cones, it's the rule. Our field is all cut short and the advantage of the cones is they can easily be moved so that the flight line is into wind. The first few pilots to arrive negotiate the flight line direction between themselves. As I am usually first, being an early bird by nature, I move the cones to suit the wind and take the blame from later arrivals who don't like the line. Water off a ducks back to me ?

 

Moveable cones are really handy as they can easily be moved as the wind changes, the sun causes a problem with my chosen line, or the late arrivals make a song and dance about it.

 

On show days and event days we have plastic fencing to define the pilot box, pits areas and the line beyond which the non involved should go. Unfortunately some members see the fencing as a hazard that they can't cope with so they avoid the event weekends.☹️ 

 

A defined pilot box is good and physical barriers can be an issue for some.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

We eliminated the pilot boxes long ago, as said, people trip up on them and a decent fence it like a magnet to big planes, we fly electrics together, internal combustions on there own, and of course only one helicopter at a time and on it's own, with meetings or a lot of members flying, we appoint a 'runway safety officer ' it's best if the pilots stick together on the open field ( in my opinion ) within earshot and at least a couple of metres from the runway, so when you call 'piste' ( runway /landing in French ) all the pilots can take a step back and are warned of the danger, also with no fence they can run, or jump freely over the runaway meat mincer,,,

[John Stainforth]

5 minutes ago, EarlyBird said:

We have two cones which define the pilot box. All pilots fly between the cones, it's the rule. Our field is all cut short and the advantage of the cones is they can easily be moved so that the flight line is into wind. The first few pilots to arrive negotiate the flight line direction between themselves. As I am usually first, being an early bird by nature, I move the cones to suit the wind and take the blame from later arrivals who don't like the line. Water off a ducks back to me ?

 

Moveable cones are really handy as they can easily be moved as the wind changes, the sun causes a problem with my chosen line, or the late arrivals make a song and dance about it.

 

On show days and event days we have plastic fencing to define the pilot box, pits areas and the line beyond which the non involved should go. Unfortunately some members see the fencing as a hazard that they can't cope with so they avoid the event weekends.☹️ 

 

A defined pilot box is good and physical barriers can be an issue for some.

The best and safest set-up I have seen was at the club I belonged to in TX. This used to have a series of protective fences on either side to the pilot stations, which were spread along the one side of the runway:

These stations were designed for one or two people each, although others could stand behind. These provided very good protection from the side and there was easy access to the front and rear, so there was nothing to trip over. Then the club decided they wanted some bigger pilot stations for groups, so some of the lateral fences taken out, so to leave some of the pilot stations as they were but with bigger spaces in between for groups:

[Geoff S]

The pilots seem to be a long way apart for easy communication with each other.  On the rare occasions when I've flown with several other pilots (often strangers as at Buckminster) all the pilots stood together almost shoulder to shoulder - say a 1 to 2 metres apart.

[GrumpyGnome]

We have a defined pilots box - one side is part of the safety fence that demarcates the pits/pilots area from the runway and pits. Two sunken white markers create the rest of the box, which is open to the pits area, the car park/no fly zone and then to our runway at 90 degrees to the main runway (I, as safety officer wanted the safety fence to dog leg and provide a barrier between the pilots and al runways but was voted down ....... I'll try again next year ? as it'll stop the occasional 'wanderer')

 

Good communication re landings/take offs, retrievals, and issues is essential and, last year, the fence 'caught' 2 models - an errant Apprentice that a new flier struggled to land, and a much larger petrol powered spitfire. Both were travelling quite slowly.

 

All pilots fly from the box, although we occasionally have to remind people.  All planes with ic engines are tethered for starting, and point directly at the safety fence and the runway beyond.  They taxi/get carried to the main runway away from the pilots box.

 

We have two members that regularly fly in the summer evenings; as the sun would be in their eyes for the majority of the time they were flying, we have agreed secondary parking and pilots areas on the other side of the runway to the main area.  Only one area is ever in use at any time. There is no safety fence in this instance.  This is under review and it is probable that we will sink some more pipes into the ground so the safety fence can be used.

 

We have no restrictions on what can be flown together - we are a very small club so it's never been an issue.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Nice set up John.

 

[kevin b]

21 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Nice set up John.

 

Somehow I don't think it is in the U.K.

 

Kevinb   In our dreams dept.

[kevin b]

If we had a pilots box, it would probably end up full of sheep (or if not you could tell they had been there). 

[Steven S]

Here's one of our pilot boxes right now.  We just taxi out on pontoons or skies from the sun shade.

 

There are five of them, each roomy enough for a pilot and a spotter [for when times are busy]. 

 

 

[John Stainforth]

59 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

The pilots seem to be a long way apart for easy communication with each other.  On the rare occasions when I've flown with several other pilots (often strangers as at Buckminster) all the pilots stood together almost shoulder to shoulder - say a 1 to 2 metres apart.

The distance between the pilot stations in the original layout was quite small, and when the changes were discussed one of the issues that came up was indeed the communication between the more spaced out individual pilot stations of the revised layout. A few trials showed that this was not a problem between individual pilots. The big advantage of the new arrangement was allowing for pilots who are all flying to together (e.g. formation flying or pseudo-combat) to be huddled in the larger stations, as shown in the following picture. I notice in this photo that the club has now added protective fences in front of the wider pilot stations.

[kevin b]

Gosh!
They even have platforms, so they don’t have to stand on the grass.

?

[John Stainforth]

41 minutes ago, kevin b said:

Gosh!
They even have platforms, so they don’t have to stand on the grass.

?

Actually, its to keep out of water after heavy rain.

[John Stainforth]

1 hour ago, Steven S said:

Here's one of our pilot boxes right now.  We just taxi out on pontoons or skies from the sun shade.

 

There are five of them, each roomy enough for a pilot and a spotter [for when times are busy]. 

 

 

Where is this?

[Allan Bennett]

Our club is small, and doesn't use fences.  Our pilot box is the touchline between the two posts of the rugby goal.  I prefer one of the end positions so I can lean on a post ?

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I like Geoff s fences with the concrete floor, to me it looks like the safest solution.?

[Steven S]

John - it's in the centre of Canada, Winnipeg, Manitoba  At the moment it's snowing and the winds are at 29, gusting to 38 kph.  No flying today.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

2 hours ago, Steven S said:

John - it's in the centre of Canada, Winnipeg, Manitoba  At the moment it's snowing and the winds are at 29, gusting to 38 kph.  No flying today.

14°c here and no wind at all,, 9 on the field and no crashes,,

[GrumpyGnome]

3 degrees, 20 mph winds here ? lots of pottering time.