Beware Ebay Global Shipping Scam

[Frank Day]

I sold a barely used RCV90SP via the above to a guy in the USA, I've sold there before but used Ebay global shipping this time. Its run by Pitney Bowes in the UK.

 

Motor was unused for a couple of years completely cleaned, prepped and packaged, its not on any prohibited list of items.

 

Long and short, some numpty at Pitney Bowes has the power to decide if an item is now a danger as and when it suits them. The motor was deemed to be a danger as it "may contain fuel residue" although they don't test it!

 

The item is then "liquidated" I thought this meant destroyed but after persisting with it I was informed that this means selling on but they refuse to return or sell it back to the seller. I got to keep the money and the buyer got refunded! sounds like an insurance scam but what do I know.

 

It seems these items now reappear for sale again through these sites and ebay, in some cases using the original sellers photographs and description.

 

Everyone makes their own choices but don't use Ebay Global, they can simply decide there is a problem with an item and essentially  steal it , I suspect staff there have a "shopping list".

 

Keeping an eye for my motor to reappear.

[Andy Stephenson]

I've heard of this problem before where the shippers decide there is a safety problem where there is none and "destroy" the item. If in any doubt, simply describe the item in as harmless terms as possible. There is an excellent engineer in Australia who makes replacement pistons and liners for popular engines. I ordered a set but I warned him this may be a problem, however, I and many others received their parts without any problems.

[Denis Watkins]

1 hour ago, Frank Day said:

Long and short, some numpty at Pitney Bowes has the power to decide if an item is now a danger as and when it suits them. The motor was deemed to be a danger as it "may contain fuel residue" although they don't test it!

 

For International and especially Air Freight, Frank, Customs do have an electronic combustibles " sniffer " device in operation. Glow fuel and nitro will just not get through.

I don't know the answer to this, but personally I sell UK only by carrier.

 

[Engine Doctor]

Its happened to me . As in the OP the engine had been cleaned and packed well. It had no residual fuel and only contained a very light application of machine oil.

Fortunately it wasnt an old rare engine . I was payed and the buyer refunded . 

I smell a rat here and think it had gone missing or stolen at the depot ? And they are covering themselves. Ebay when i contacted them refused to give me any criteria why it had been declared unsafe and justcsaid it had been destroyed. Something isnt right but both parties were not out of pocket. I did sell quite a few through the Global shipping program as it takes the worry out of items that " go missing in the post" abroard. 

I rarely sell any engines on ebay now due to this and dodgy buyers taking the mickey. 

Its been ruined by those in our society with little or no morals.

[Frank Day]

I questioned how they identified  fuel residue,  i suspect they base this on whether the item is used or new and thats it as they couldnt say if there was a test.

 

It hadnt been used  for a while, couple of years but was completely clean with just some protective lube and all parts some of which were  new were all in sealed bags.

 

The refund and payment is odd which seems to indicate that there was nothing wrong in sending it and they make decisions as it pleases, Im convinced its legal theft and a con. keeping an eye out to see where it pops up

[FlyinFlynn]

As a seller I don't think I would be that bothered by these antics, after all, I have received my money for the item and I could not be held responsible by any reasonable standard, but as the buyer I would be miffed to say the least. Perhaps the disappointed buyer might feel like having a go at suing eBay as per the German gentleman did when an item he was bidding on in an eBay auction was withdrawn....he apparently won.

[Nigel Heather]

Going to play devil's advocate here.

 

Imagine you are responsible for the shipment and you determine that the item 'may' contain fuel.  You do not have the means or the time to test, you just know that from the description that it may contain fuel.  If they asked any expert if a used model engine could contain glow fuel the answer would be a risk.

 

Okay the seller has said that it has been thoroughly cleaned but you hold the risk of millions of dollars shod a fire break out on a plane or ship because of this motor.

 

So as someone responsible for the safety of the shipment, at risk of huge penalties should something go wrong, would you ship an item that you have been advised may be a risk - I wouldn't.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Nigel Heather

[Don Fry]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Heather said:

Going to play devil's advocate here.

 

Imagine you are responsible for the shipment and you determine that the item 'may' contain fuel.  You do not have the means or the time to test, you just know that from the description that it may contain fuel.  If they asked any expert if a used model engine could contain glow fuel the answer would be a risk.

 

Okay the seller has said that it has been thoroughly cleaned but you hold the risk of millions of dollars shod a fire break out on a plane or ship because of this motor.

 

So as someone responsible for the safety of the shipment, at risk of huge penalties should something go wrong, would you ship an item that you have been advised may be a risk - I wouldn't.

So return it to seller.

[Christopher Wolfe]

PB open themselves to a potential scam.

 

If I list a Cox Babe Bee .049 on fleabay for $500 and somebody (an international friend) purchases it.

 

So then I Ioad the Babe Bee with it's favourite 25% nitromethane fuel diet, post it and P.B. confiscates it when the nitro is detected.

 

End result, I get $500 for a Cox Babe Bee .049 and my friend gets his $500 back.

 

Sweet 🙃

 

Chris

 

 

 

[Frank Day]

Hi Chris,

 

Lets start up a business, its all legal as long as the the buyer pays.  I have some US and EU addresses available we could alternate buying and selling.

 

The item must be Used, New  will get delivered - probably!.  I checked before offering international postage,  IC model engines aren't on any prohibited list.

I have a terrible but "highly desirable" OS40 going at a very reasonable £299.00.  No careful owners etc no service history, although a Priest was the first owner.

 

The strange issue is that they wont send it back because of the imaginary danger and they wont let the seller personally go and collect it.  

 

Of course there's nothing else that could possibly catch alight on a ship or plane, like someones cigarette lighter! 

 

This is an official item:

Absorbed liquid and butane lighters are limited to one lighter per passenger in carry-on or on one's person. When a carry-on bag is checked at the gate or at planeside, any lighter in the carry-on must be removed from the bag and kept with the passenger in the aircraft cabin.!!!!!!!!!

 

Confirmed,  they don't carry out any test

[Flying Squirrel]

4 hours ago, Don Fry said:

So return it to seller.

If they've identified it as a fire risk they couldn't as that would be putting others at risk I guess. 

[Flying Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Christopher Wolfe said:

PB open themselves to a potential scam.

 

If I list a Cox Babe Bee .049 on fleabay for $500 and somebody (an international friend) purchases it.

 

So then I Ioad the Babe Bee with it's favourite 25% nitromethane fuel diet, post it and P.B. confiscates it when the nitro is detected.

 

End result, I get $500 for a Cox Babe Bee .049 and my friend gets his $500 back.

 

Sweet 🙃

 

Chris

 

 

 

🤣 Love the way you don't even cut your 'international friend' in on the deal, he just gets his/her money back🤣

[Nigel Heather]

7 hours ago, Don Fry said:

So return it to seller.

They can't because they can't knowingly send something that they believe is a risk.

 

As I understand it the seller got to keep the money and the buyer was refunded.

 

So the seller got the money he was expecting and buyer was not out of pocket.

[Don Fry]

Yea, get it. 
A person of challenged IQ, a manager therefore, if he got promotion to moron, might get better. 
On a lighter note, am amusing to find I am in a nest of wily and sly criminals. Flying Squirrel, all criminals cut their mates throat. Badge of honour Guv. 

[John Stainforth]

7 hours ago, Frank Day said:

Hi Chris,

 

Lets start up a business, its all legal as long as the the buyer pays.  I have some US and EU addresses available we could alternate buying and selling.

 

The item must be Used, New  will get delivered - probably!.  I checked before offering international postage,  IC model engines aren't on any prohibited list.

I have a terrible but "highly desirable" OS40 going at a very reasonable £299.00.  No careful owners etc no service history, although a Priest was the first owner.

 

The strange issue is that they wont send it back because of the imaginary danger and they wont let the seller personally go and collect it.  

 

Of course there's nothing else that could possibly catch alight on a ship or plane, like someones cigarette lighter! 

 

This is an official item:

Absorbed liquid and butane lighters are limited to one lighter per passenger in carry-on or on one's person. When a carry-on bag is checked at the gate or at planeside, any lighter in the carry-on must be removed from the bag and kept with the passenger in the aircraft cabin.!!!!!!!!!

 

Confirmed,  they don't carry out any test

Ha! £300 for an OS40. I see that Leeds Model Shop is selling both the OS46AX and OS55AX for £128 pounds, which I think is a real bargain given the brecciated pound etc. That must be about the greatest bangs for the buck in UK aeromodelling at the moment (and way better than the cost of batteries for leccy models, IMHO).

[Nigel Heather]

On 28/03/2023 at 21:42, Frank Day said:

I questioned how they identified  fuel residue,  i suspect they base this on whether the item is used or new and thats it as they couldnt say if there was a test.

 

It hadnt been used  for a while, couple of years but was completely clean with just some protective lube and all parts some of which were  new were all in sealed bags.

 

The refund and payment is odd which seems to indicate that there was nothing wrong in sending it and they make decisions as it pleases, Im convinced its legal theft and a con. keeping an eye out to see where it pops up

Remember we are talking about shipping experts - they know lots about shipping but very little about Radio Control models.

 

I doubt they did any testing at all, they simply have a list of items that have a potential risk - a model engine might have fuel residue and therefore is a risk.  They are not going to test whether there is any residue, they wouldn’t have the time or the know-how, they simply work on it being a potential risk.

 

As for them stealing it for selling on.  I very much doubt it, this will be a multi-million pound business they really wouldn’t be concerned about making a few bob on a model engine - it is peanuts in the grand scheme and it is not worth the reputational risk should they be discovered.

 

I am confident that it will have been destroyed/disposed.

[Frank Day]

I spoke to them,  none of it is destroyed unless its an illegal item, its all sold on to "secret" 3rd parties to profit from.

 

International friend is also me!

 

IC model engines are not on the prohibited list.

 

Yes, buyer who keeps bugging me as ebay told them nothing had been searching for ages for the motor got their money back and I got to keep the proceeds of the sale and ebay took their 12.8% ransom which makes me smell a rat.

 

Posting of the item in a cleaned state, bagged,  boxed securely wrapped is permitted  but someone without testing confiscates it and the company sell it on without allowing any of the original parties to buy it back etc.

 

As in my earlier post, I cannot see how  this is any greater risk that a cigarette lighter on a person or in the hold of a plane in checked baggage which is allowed!

Edited March 30, 2023 by Frank Day
missed something

[Zflyer]

Frank who did you speak to and how, telephone call, in person, e mail. Is it buried somewhere in the x amount of pages of gobbledekook that are Terms and Conditions.

I wonder what if any Customs laws are applied

 

[Engine Doctor]

23 hours ago, Nigel Heather said:

Going to play devil's advocate here.

 

Imagine you are responsible for the shipment and you determine that the item 'may' contain fuel.  You do not have the means or the time to test, you just know that from the description that it may contain fuel.  If they asked any expert if a used model engine could contain glow fuel the answer would be a risk.

 

Okay the seller has said that it has been thoroughly cleaned but you hold the risk of millions of dollars shod a fire break out on a plane or ship because of this motor.

 

So as someone responsible for the safety of the shipment, at risk of huge penalties should something go wrong, would you ship an item that you have been advised may be a risk - I wouldn't.

I see where your coming from but lets think about it . A quick "X" ray would determine  that it is an engine with no tank or meaningful amount of fuel or ignition device .

Its well packed and when shipped in a hold, is at very low temp, low enough to inhibit combustion of methanol and at cruising height has virtually no oxygen . 

Their expert fit the description of of expert or Xspert  completely . 

An Xspert: X is a mystery or an unknown quantity. Spert is a drip of water under pressure . So we have a unknown drip under pressure to make  decision . 😉

[Frank Day]

Zflyer,

 

I made a nuisance of myself,  calls,  messages  etc to ebay, they claimed they didn't know fully how decisions were made and reluctantly contacted Pitney Bowes, all by email. I stated that I wanted the item back and was prepared then and there to do the eight hour round trip to collect it with any evidence they required. Next day I had a reply stating that confiscated items were  "Liquidated" as they refer to it and that the public were not permitted at the facility and the item would not be returned. It took a few more messages despite them declaring the matter closed to finally squeeze out of them that liquidated means sold on/auctioned off in batches.

 

No customs laws involved I've sold/posted IC motors to the USA before new and used. I had subsequently signed up to global shipping and sent items around the world so didn't think about it beyond that but am 100% certain no items listed were banned.

 

Its a nonsense as someone can put a cigarette lighter full of fuel in a checked in suitcase or carry (one) on their person on a plane.  Piney Bowes seems to be a law unto itself and ebay still get their 12.8%!

 

This was £350 worth of RCV90SP engine, including new items such  as a Genesis in cowl muffler never opened, new mounting plate, hex starter etc from Westons

[Zflyer]

I think there should be something in the T & C's about this, its pretty shameful. I would like to have more information from P & B via their customer Service Department. |They get a bit fractious  when they now they are likely to get their rear exposed to public gaze.

[David Davis]

Slightly off topic. I was in England last year to visit my sister who had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I took the opportunity to buy a Laser 100 for one of my French clubmates because Laser were not exporting to the EU at the time. I put it into my bag and when I got to Manchester Airport I put it through the scanner. I noticed that my bag was held back while the property of other people behind me in the queue was allowed through. I went up to the young man behind the desk and asked whether there was a problem with my bag.

 

"I'll just contact my supervisor," he said.

 

His supervisor was a woman in her fifties who seemed to be rather angry. "WHAT IS IN THE BOX IN YOUR BAG?" she asked. "It's a model aeroplane engine," I replied. "WHAT IS A MODEL AEROPLANE ENGINE?" "It's an engine for an aeroplane which is too small to accomodate a human pilot." "OPEN IT!" she said to one of her subordinates. The box was opened. The engine was wrapped in bubble wrap but a small amount of oil had leaked onto the wrapping. "WHAT IS THIS?" she demanded. "I believe that it's oil" I said. "LET HIM HAVE IT" she said to her junior colleague.

 

So I was anle to take it onto the aircraft and back home.

 

Guess I was lucky.

[Frank Day]

On the off topic I had a air powered saw confiscated at an airport, works only off an external compressor, no blades no oil/lube etc visually dry as a bone in original unopened package with receipt. Fits into palm of hand.

 

Reason, No power tools allowed in passenger compartment, despite informing them it had no power source it was gone, one of the security guys also said it can cause no harm jobsworth took it.

[kc]

I suggest putting the matter in writing and sending to the CEO saying you will be taking legal action  demanding the item back. This might achieve something.    Also keep an eye on auction sites to see if your item comes up!

Of course it could have been worse  - imagine someone spending a few thousand hours making a superb model engine which is then 'destroyed' .........

[Andy J]

Once had an an aneroid barometer stopped for air transport in the late 90's as it contained mercury. Tried to tell them at an aneroid barometer works using an evacuated capsule but was unable to convince those that knew better.