Am I getting old, or are things changing ?

[KenC]

Back in the early century, if I had suggested I was looking at even the chance of using those CA hinges on a small model, those that I flew with would have turned their backs  or begun to curse and rant. I now open a seven foot near scale model kit and there they are, suggested and supplied for elevator and ailerons !    I look in amazement , not even Kavan hinged flats , just little strips of milk carton with an almost hairy texture.    I am now looking at the wood used on the trailing edges to see what I can get away with, I would almost always gravitate to Robarts...... am I old or have things changed ?

[Andy48]

Undoubtedly you are getting old. I use those CA hinges on all my models, and never had a problem.

[Wookman]

Things always change otherwise we would still all be flying single channel with a button and sewn hinges. Embrace the change you like, ignore the change you don't.

[Brian Cooper]

Yes, things change.  But they don't necessarily change for the better.

 

There now seems to be an expectation of a short life for most products. . . And employing vague,  flimsy hinges on a large model is one way to ensure it. . Lol. 

 

Sometimes the old ways are the best. 

[KenC]

Rock on Tommy !     Messrs Cooper and Wookman see you down the pub , we can put these kids to right !  Bit like the everlasting light bulb and why that was never created !

Seriously Andy48 what is the largest model where you are flying with a CA hinged elevator ? I am interested in the relationship and suitability of small robarts in standard 5mm trailing edge.   Interestingly in my day, even if you used Kavan pinned flat hinges, you would drill through the plastic on both sides of the hinge and glue a cocktail stick in the hole to lock it in there.

 

[Andy48]

2 hours ago, KenC said:

Rock on Tommy !     Messrs Cooper and Wookman see you down the pub , we can put these kids to right !  Bit like the everlasting light bulb and why that was never created !

Seriously Andy48 what is the largest model where you are flying with a CA hinged elevator ? I am interested in the relationship and suitability of small robarts in standard 5mm trailing edge.   Interestingly in my day, even if you used Kavan pinned flat hinges, you would drill through the plastic on both sides of the hinge and glue a cocktail stick in the hole to lock it in there.

 

Most of mine are not all that big, in the 4' to 5' range. Larger models just use more hinges, simple. My Wot4 running with a 5S 4000mAh battery works perfectly well with CA hinged elevators. Practice fitting some on scrap material and check how far the CA wicks into the hinge and the wood.

 

The reason for pinning flat hinges was because the plastic used in them was very difficult to glue well. CA hinges are different, and provided you use thin slow drying CA glue, and plenty of it they work very well. (Screwfix cheap and cheerful CA glue works well.)

Edited April 14, 2023 by Andy48

[Chris Walby]

Its a competitive industry for manufacturers in the hobby plus perhaps they are responding to changes with the model owners.

Firstly they have to build to a cost/performance formula and with the advent of electric the stress and strain of being shaken apart by IC is not necessarily a consideration. I have seen some models where the manufacturer does not specify an IC set-up and when you look at the construction its clear it would not withstand the rigors of IC installation. My point is it allows the manufacturer to select materials that save them cost and still allows perfectly adequate resilience. The problem you might find is that there is not enough wood for pin type hinges and fitting them might weaken the wing structure.

 

The other thing might be the general skill level of modellers has reduced over the years as less and less people build and just assemble ARTF. How difficult is it to screw up a CA hinge compared with a pin hinge by joe public?

 

[SIMON CRAGG]

Yep, we are all getting old and the hobby is changing in a big way.

 

I personally think that the hobby is / will be going down hill progressively in the future. 

 

Dunno about other clubs, but our membership is at best static, year on year the trends are downwards.

 

Why?

 

The prices of ARTF's that we know and love are now astronomic, certainly enough to put your average learner off.

 

Various (well discussed) "on" costs.

 

Ok, build something from a plan? Err probably not. Balsa sheet at £5 a shot and covering?......... say no more!.

 

Lipos? There are a few reasonably priced batteries about, but with the demise of HK and CNHL can get very expensive.

 

Not all doom and gloom though.

 

Bring on the Foamboard, second hand via e.bay and marketplace.

 

Pretty bleak outlook I'm afraid.

 

 

[KenC]

Yes profit margins might have a lot to do with it. This Top Flite kit has a sheet of the hinge material for you to cut to size !  Interestingly  with a pinned Kavan  pinned hinge, the option to pull the pin and change the control surface is a little more doable.   Still tempted to head for the Kavan and epoxy , I guess  the weight stress and forces on the elevator are a little more serious moving for a four foot Wot 4 wing with a 4 inch fuse width,  up to a seven foot  with a fuse width of nearly ten inches.   I have a feeling there are not a lot of CA hinges in the LMA.

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

4 minutes ago, KenC said:

Yes profit margins might have a lot to do with it.

 

Not really, electricity, heating and lighting, rent, rates, insurance, wages and the 'states' part, bank charges, taxes, rules and regulations, it just goes on and on,,

 

years ago a family with a couple of kids could live on one wage, not today.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

You'll have to break the wood to remove a furry CA'd hinge. I would fit the old category.

[Cuban8]

3 hours ago, SIMON CRAGG said:

Yep, we are all getting old and the hobby is changing in a big way.

 

I personally think that the hobby is / will be going down hill progressively in the future. 

 

Dunno about other clubs, but our membership is at best static, year on year the trends are downwards.

 

Why?

 

The prices of ARTF's that we know and love are now astronomic, certainly enough to put your average learner off.

 

Various (well discussed) "on" costs.

 

Ok, build something from a plan? Err probably not. Balsa sheet at £5 a shot and covering?......... say no more!.

 

Lipos? There are a few reasonably priced batteries about, but with the demise of HK and CNHL can get very expensive.

 

Not all doom and gloom though.

 

Bring on the Foamboard, second hand via e.bay and marketplace.

 

Pretty bleak outlook I'm afraid.

 

 

I guess we'll weather the storm.  The cost of radio gear has fallen considerably with the advent of the new open source based equipment and has given the big names a well needed wake up. Models will continue to be built and assembled but maybe not quite so regularly as we've been used to. Why not refurbish an otherwise perfectly sound model with a recover or repaint or gear upgrade rather than starting from scratch? At a fraction of the cost of a new project it can be just as satisfying.

Smaller 3S electrics remain  very attractive, and although doubled or more in price to what they were, still represent an affordable solution without breaking the bank. 

Nobody is twisting our arms to get us to spend hundreds or often thousands of pounds on the hobby annually; cut your covering to suit your airframe, as you might say.

[KenC]

So John Stones , you would be quite happy using the furry CA hinge on a 1/4 scale elevator ... and have no worry or urge to head for the old standards. ?

 

[kevin b]

To answer the opening question in its simplest form.

Yes and yes.

 

It applies to me too.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

9 minutes ago, KenC said:

So John Stones , you would be quite happy using the furry CA hinge on a 1/4 scale elevator ... and have no worry or urge to head for the old standards. ?

 

 

I have them  on 30cc aerobats, they're sized to suit and common place in these models, no issues to report Ken.

[PatMc]

Re the spiralling costs - some {many ?} of us still have a kit "mountain" to use up (or sell on) & maybe also a stash of raw material to scratch build from without dipping too much into our pockets. 😊

Edited April 14, 2023 by PatMc

[Philip Lewis 3]

I agree I've used these on planes up to 60 CC size, installed correctly the wood will break well before the hinge does, these furry hinges aren't so much glued TO the wood but the glue permeates the hinge and the wood and it all becomes "as one".

 

Likewise never had an issue and don't expect to either, just try getting onr out!.

 

Phil

[KenC]

3 hours ago, PatMc said:

Re the spiralling costs - some {many ?} of us still have a kit "mountain" to use up (or sell on) & maybe also a stash of raw material to scratch build from without dipping too much into our pockets. 😊

That's great Pat, what was your address again ?  lol 

[KenC]

Thanks John and Philip,  so it seems they do have a following  among the harder hitters .

[J D 8]

          I have used the actual milk bottle plastic on a couple of models, tough as old boots. Have to be pinned though.

When out beyond the sticks. make and mend s often the way.

[Nigel Heather]

14 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Not really, electricity, heating and lighting, rent, rates, insurance, wages and the 'states' part, bank charges, taxes, rules and regulations, it just goes on and on,,

 

years ago a family with a couple of kids could live on one wage, not today.

I think one of the biggest influences on our hobby is the rising cost of transportation.  That kicked in over a year before the inflation and energy crisis issues.  Practically all of our models and building materials comes from the far east so are mostly shipped by sea in containers.  The cost of that shipping increased around 6x after the COVID breakout.  Models are light but weight isn’t the driver, it’s volume, and our foamy ARTF models come in big boxes. I have seen foamy ARTFs nearly double in price after COVID and I believe the majority of that increase is down to shipping costs.  Of course energy and inflation play there part too, compounding the problem even further.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Nigel Heather

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Don't forget that Graupner was the biggest supplier of Balsa with his own forest to feed us, and the wind generators eating up our balsa for it's 'non-recyclable' blades now being buried RIP,,,

[Piers Bowlan]

Fortunately I have a substantial kit mountain in my loft and a pile of virgin balsa too. (Eat your hearts out!) For those not so blessed, depron sheet and hot-wire cut polystyrene are a cheap and often quick alternative to traditional modelling. It might not suit everyone but it has its advantages besides cost. For instance light models fly better and their their relative short life means you will build more models! 😁

[Piers Bowlan]

When I first really got into aeromodelling back in the 1970s models were generally smaller and people had fewer of them. RC was expensive and unreliable. The Super 60, for example, was a ‘large model’ as I recall. Models and their engines and now motors, have grown bigger and ever more powerful with the advent of reliable multi-model memory radios.🤑

 

Perhaps smaller simpler models will predominate in future as modellers tighten their belts, and have just as much fun to boot. 😃

[Christopher Wolfe]

20 hours ago, KenC said:

Rock on Tommy !     Messrs Cooper and Wookman see you down the pub , we can put these kids to right !  Bit like the everlasting light bulb and why that was never created !

 

Actually, this one is still working after 122 years Centennial Light which is pretty impressive IMHO

 

Chris