Erfolg Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I have acquired an IC model. This has posed a number of issue. The first is, what voltage is this starter, 6 0r 12 Volts. Could I use a Lipo to power it, for a limited number of starts per flying session. I have not a clue as to the brand, as it seems unmarked. The second is I will need a glow plug starter, I was thinking of one of the plug on glow type? The third is a electric fuel pump seems overly complex, in needing a power supply and a switch to reverse direction. I was thinking perhaps a mechanical pump, which I could fasten to the neck of the Glow fuel container. I want to keep things simple, minimum amount of junk that IC flyers seem to see as normal. As I have no intention of going mainstream IC, much preferring to stay electric, although I have time issues with electric, just about 6 minimum , seems a tad short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12v, and a 3cell lipo will run it fine, 4 cell may burn switch out, hand pump is fine, clip on glow unit, spare plug and spanner, spare fuel tube. I.C flyers don't carry lots of stuff, flyers who carry lots of stuff will do the same with whatevers the power source. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12v and a 3s (maybe 4s if you need more spice) lipo would work fine. I use a 6s on my beefy 24v starter and while i do occasionally weld the switch on, its rare. The trick is to make sure the engine is wound back to compression so you do not stall the starter. Stalling the starter will weld the switch together if you have the high current capability of a lipo. A small motorbike starter battery can also work well but is obviously heavier. If all else fails a well set up engine will hand start with ease and all you need is a foot long offcut from a broom handle. Beyond that a manual fuel pump is fine. I have used a prolux fast fueller hand pump for the last 10 years or so here at work and its not dead yet. For glow one of those battery on a stick types is recommended assuming the glow plug is easy to access. This is similar to the ones i use here at work and will probably be man enough for 100 starts or more. https://nexusmodels.co.uk/collections/glow-starters-clips/products/j-perkins-glo-start-clip-l-2500mah-nimh-charger-3pin-5508216 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I think there is an echo in here John 😉 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I've used a 3S 2200 mAH LiPo to power my electric starter with no problems. They're designed for 12v lead acid batteries so that's more or less a 3S LiPo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 A lead acid 12v 7/8 ampere battery will do it, I wouldn't go with a 3s 2200mah battery, they do accept 4s for short periods. As a beginner in winter you will probably flatten it before your first flight, go for at least a 35000 mah lipo, Especially if you have a 10cc two-stroke, even worse a 4 stroke unless you turn the prop backwards to start. As said above a broom handle is fine if you are going for a 100cc motor, if not a wooden kitchen spoon is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3S2200 lipo on my starter, works ok. On a 10cc 2 stroke and upwards, you need the prop turned back as Paul says, but is otherwise perfectly ok, and I'd rather not hit the engine with a starter that has "way too much" TBH. I like an electric fuel pump, I'm lazy. Mine's on a 3s1000. My glow driver is a home made widget that runs from the same 3s lipo. Manual pumps also work. Plugs fail with age - take a spare, and a plug spanner to change it with. You don't need heaps of kit. A well adjusted engine starts quite easily, or, there is something wrong that probably needs a workshop/bench/kitchen-table environment to investigate and fix. That said, don't forget something to clean your toy with after you finish playing with it. Lastly, castor oil, if you say the word three times, Jon of Laser Engines will appear in your workshop and remove all your fuel. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 If not (evidently) familiar with operating IC engines, a tip I found very helpful; if you need to change a plug, use a short length of fuel tubing to start the threads. That way you can’t cross thread it. Spare my blushes and don’t ask how I know. BTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Your answers have given me thoughts how the implementation of hand pump and Lipos has been achieved. I wondered with respect to a hand pump have they been attached to the neck of the fuel bottle, or maybe a simple frame holding the pump, that the fuel container is held in something like a framework. In the case of the starter Lipo, are they commonly held in a container, perhaps wood or metal, perhaps with the starter mounted on the lid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I have 3 different starters, the lipos are strapped directly to the starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 My old starter works fine on a 2200 3s, starting engines up to 90 4stroke. Its lipo just tails on the cable, the clips were cut off and replaced with a plug for the lipo. .Lipo used just one past its best for model use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I use 3s or 4s batteries. Don’t really care. But I do make sure it has a maximum prop swing to get up some speed before it gets loaded against compression. With either I’ve not yet welded anything up, except on one occasion, I had a 24v Dynatron unit, and a 4s battery, almost flat, and I welded the switch when it stalled. I think, willing to be disproved, ( not my game) that the amps max out at stall, and that’s the heat peak that causes an arc weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The last time I flew a liquid fuel powered model was my Maher's Thunderbird with a Zenoah 26, magneto sparked petrol engine and the 2200 3s LiPo coped easily. I always turn an engine back on compression, much like bump starting a single cylinder motorcycle engine (as used to be the case for racing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Starter? Let the printer take the strain: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2884920 I made a simple frame from cheap b&q ply but I didn't have a printer at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Nigel, wooer, that seems to be the dogs dodahs, I will be onto it tomorrow. Looks like the same starter unit. Just need something for the pump, now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I take it you guys carry everything from the back of your car to the pits area ? Sometimes the pits area are some distance from the car, or even home... Think old oap shopping trolley with half gallon fuel resevoir, hand pump, 12v 12 ah motorcycle battery ( the same one as the bikes ) to power electric starter, power panel to regulate 12v down to glow clip, clothes peg type, room for all of this topped off by box for tools and tx. . One hand free for model, the other used to pull trolley along. Trolley fits in the back of the car. Or Get a slave/assistant to carry all the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 hours ago, Bruce Collinson said: If not (evidently) familiar with operating IC engines, a tip I found very helpful; if you need to change a plug, use a short length of fuel tubing to start the threads. That way you can’t cross thread it. Spare my blushes and don’t ask how I know. BTC Same with something similar for car sparkplugs that all seem to be buried deep inside cylinder heads these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 27 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: I take it you guys carry everything from the back of your car to the pits area ? Sometimes the pits area are some distance from the car, or even home... Think old oap shopping trolley with half gallon fuel resevoir, hand pump, 12v 12 ah motorcycle battery ( the same one as the bikes ) to power electric starter, power panel to regulate 12v down to glow clip, clothes peg type, room for all of this topped off by box for tools and tx. . One hand free for model, the other used to pull trolley along. Trolley fits in the back of the car. Or Get a slave/assistant to carry all the stuff. I used a foldable festival trolley I got from Aldi, had it for 3 years, been brilliant. (My flight box is around 45 years old!) 4s Life powered starter Hand pump Standard glow stick Make sure you include a fuel filter in the pump discharge to filter the fuel as you fill the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 11 hours ago, Geoff S said: Zenoah 26, magneto sparked petrol engine and the 2200 3s LiPo coped easily. My starters stall on all my engines over 15cc on 3S I use 4s for my 10cc methanol helicopter, no way will it start it if it's under 20°C. I use the big one with the reduction on it in the photo for my over 15cc and all my petrol engines, as you can see just a strap for the battery. 9 hours ago, Rich Griff said: I take it you guys carry everything from the back of your car to the pits area Oh, come on it's a sport, If I can't carry my toys then I shouldn't be flying😄. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 9 hours ago, Frank Skilbeck said: Make sure you include a fuel filter in the pump discharge to filter the fuel as you fill the plane This is a good shout. I use a course filter as the pickup to strain out big bits like grass which may fall in the bottle. I then use a fine filter at the other end and plug that into the model for filling. The model has no filters on it as the fuel has already been double filtered before making it to the tank. By the way, which engine have you actually got in the model? Edited February 1 by Jon - Laser Engines 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Ditto Jon......one of those screw apart coarse metal filters as a clunk in the fuel bottle and a Sullivan Craptrap dual filter in the feed to the model. Nothing else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 minutes ago, Cuban8 said: Sullivan Craptrap dual filter in the feed to the model. I use one of these (or similar) https://sussex-model-centre.co.uk/products/maxi-fuel-filter but its a 6 of one half dozen of another debate which specific filter is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Golf caddy ? One with wheels ? Wonderfull things are wheels, you can even put them on your plane. Anyways, stuff can get heavy. Try taking a gallon of water for a walk if your in doubt. Yes, water can't walk but if it's in a can, carry it in that, and be responsible. 😁 Fuel filters, yes, great idea. The sintered ones ? A word of caution, glow fuel and brass... Ever seen green glow fuel or a green coating inside a glow fuel tank ? Why does that happen ? Longish storage of glow fuel with a brass fuel pick up "dangling" in the glow fuel.... Is it true that burning a glow fuel produces water ? I like the "rubber tube" idea for deeply recessed or difficult to reach glow plugs. Modern cars seem to have deeply recessed spark plugs like a citroen ds21, that space age looking car of the 50's... Japanese bikes ( and other flavours ) have difficult to reach spark plugs also. Have a great day out there, happy landings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Isn't a golf caddy without wheels........a bag? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 16 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: Is it true that burning a glow fuel produces water ? Certainly is and google provided this handy equation showing water as the largest exhaust product. Methanol Oxygen Carbon dioxide Water 2CH3OH(l) + 3O2(g) --> 2CO2(g) + 4H2O(g) This does assume perfect combustion though, and we arent going to achieve that very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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