Mode 1 or Mode 2

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Stuart Z]

Posted by Percy Verance on 02/01/2017 10:31:39:

I'm a little unclear as to why mode 1 may be considered a drawback?

It's done me ok for 45+ years. Worked ok for Hanno Prettner too.........

Hear Hear!

I fly Mode 1 as well. The only disadvantage I see is not being able to let someone try my planes and equally I cannot try theirs. Somehow or other Mode 2 has become the norm, sometimes think the manufacturers are happy with that.

Other than that, I'm happy with my Mode 1 trannies.

S

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:39:09

[pete taylor]

Mode 1 all the way for me too!

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:38:41

[John Stainforth]

Mode 2 is more like a full-size plane in that the right-hand TX stick mimics the control column. In the US, Mode 2 dominates probably because there is more interaction between full-size and model aviation - for example, a much higher proportion of RC flyers in the US also flies full-size planes.

 

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:38:13

[pete taylor]

Probably best not to reignite the whole mode 1/mode 2 debate in this thread, but the "...more like a real plane..." theory has been debunked many times over and dismissed as the codswallop it is 😉

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:37:12

[Peter Miller]

I remember a friend who flew mode 2 and the decided that maybe Mode 1 was better.

On his firs flight he was coming in to land and realised that he was well short of the strip so he aplied full power quickly.

He then went back to model 2 and built a new model

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:36:32

[pete taylor]

I remember well doing exactly the same thing, but the other way around.
I can't for the life of me recall why I thought it was a good idea, but the result was the same.... Whack - the ground did rise up and smote my model - verily!!

The moral of these tales:
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!
If you start flying on one mode, stick with it.

Edited By pete taylor on 02/01/2017 14:35:49

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:36:04

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin McIntosh]

This was like a `red rag` to me when I read the first `pop` at mode 1 but I managed to bite my lip at the time, it being the season for good will to all men.

However, this has now ended!

I was surprised that a guy from Coventry flies mode 2 since when I lived in the Midlands it was unheard of.

We regard it as Ripmax Mode since they seemed to start importing gear like this, predominantly in the south.

The reason that the Americans fly M2 is, I believe, rather more complex than flitting around in their Cessnas.

The yanks originally had `cuddle boxes` which were cradled in the left hand with a throttle slider on the right hand side and a single central stick controlling aileron and elevator with a twistable pot on the end for rudder.

The mind boggles. This of course led to two sticks, retaining the aileron/elevator on one of them.

 

However, another side to the story is that many of us of a certain age graduated from reeds, where only a channel on the right could be used with one on the left, so aileron/rudder right, elevator left. Rudder migrated to the left with propo and throttle on the aileron stick.

 

I can just about steer round a model on M2 but it feels wrong and I have to really concentrate. Many years ago I flew F3A. All the main continentals flew M1 (Matt, Prettner, etc). It is much better for this style of flying since stuff like eight point rolls are very easy. I can usually spot a M2 flyer trying one of these because the model wavers up and down while they try to find the right elevator setting whilst moving the aileron stick from centre to side.

The modern 3D approach is probably easier on M2. Just really what your style is and which you are happiest with/brought up on.

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:35:17

[pete taylor]

Hear, hear Martin!

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:34:53

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Muscle memory can be a powerful friend - or a deadly enemy!

I suspect that an experienced pilot would relate to having the primary controls on a single stick, translating that muscle memory to a single combined control must be more natural. However, when learning from scratch, I doubt that it makes very much difference, if any. I believe that many model pilots from the earlier era learnt on reeds/galloping ghost type switch control radios which lent themselves to a separate hand layout for primary control and transferred this to digital proportional control sticks.

A former CO of Boscombe Down / RAF Chief Test Pilot had a go on the buddy lead at our club one afternoon. He found it quite challenging although by the end of the session he was certainly starting to get the idea. His difficulties only related to orientation though - is it co-incidence that we are a mode 2 club where I assume your airline pilot was attempting to fly mode 1?

Edited By Martin Harris on 02/01/2017 15:47:00

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:34:29

[John Stainforth]

I apologise for offending several people on this forum, so early in the New Year, with my "theory" - which has now been debunked as "codswallop" - that the right hand controls the elevator and ailerons of a full-size plane with a single control column, like Mode 2, whilst the left-hand controls the throttle, also like Mode 2. I have not got the nerve to tell my American friends, who all told me this theory, that they have been talking codswallop. Anyway, in this post-truth world, their opinions can probably be ignored because they just "experts": expert pilots of both full-size and model planes!

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:43:16

[cymaz]

John, I remember seeing a cockpit head cam film of a chap flying a Mustang....throttle on left.

BTW, prepare for a slapping from a Mod for language

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/01/2017 16:33:29

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Now see what you've done, Chris! It was hidden away out of view - wait for the flame war to start!

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

That is a risk Martin, but I think that because it's been done to death so many times before, that most folk will be sensible here.

My take on it comes from personal experience only.
I moved on from a single channel Macgregor push button Tx to the very exotic (at the time) Waltron 4-5 propo set.
That arrived from it's UK manufacturer set to mode 2 and I never gave it a second thought.

Around the same time I had just gone solo in a full size glider so Ail and Ele on the same stick was just natural.

I've certainly thought since, that elevator and rudder compensation in roll manoeuvres might be easier in mode one, but mode two also has it's own advantages.

It's a bit of a non-argument to be honest. Whatever you learn with remains best for most people.

[Colin Leighfield]

I started flying propo in 1976 and everyone around here, Birmingham, Sutton Coldfield, Walsall etc. seemed to fly mode1, so I did as well and have ever since. I don't think there's any chance of me changing over to mode 2 now.

As for the comparison with the full size. I've also got a Group A private pilot's licence, not current any more, but I never found any relationship between the stick layout on a transmitter and full size controls. I never found any real similarity between flying a model and flying full-size, they are totally different things and I don't think the commonality between the left stick on a mode 2 transmitter and the column on a full size plane makes the slightest difference. I certainly wouldn't say that familiarity with flying models made learning to fly full-size any easier. They are not the same. The most popular light aircraft tend to have yokes rather than columns anyway and although the control outputs are the same, they feel different again.

It just depends on what you started with and that was simply a function of what everybody else did in the locality. Whatever you got used to is what works for you and you stick with it. I certainly will.

[kc]

For any newcomers ...... it is highly desirable to fly the same Mode as your fellow club members. 3 main reasons

1 if you get into any trouble - something as simple as eyes watering or just any problem - then you could just hand over to any competent fellow member for a moment.

2. you may well be offered a chance to fly someone elses model when your ability merits it. This is particularly important because just a few moments on an entirely different sort of plane may give you increased confidence and/or suggest what model you might want next.

3. safety- especially with electric. Another pilot might well not realise your model is on another mode and just touch the wrong stick and have the motor start up unexpectedly.

 

So learn on your ( local or intended) club's Mode if at all possible, but don't change once you have started.

 

kc - Mode 1 pilot in a Mode 2 club!

Edited By kc on 02/01/2017 17:02:00

[Denis Watkins]

Can I just back Chris Bott up with a true story of whatever you learn you go with. A guy joined my club having learned to fly himself for over 12 months, but came to me to further his tuition, whereby my discovery that he could fly neither mode 1 nor mode 2, but he had learned to fly very well straight from the box with throttle on left, but idle was up and full throttle was down stick. Right stick aileron was OK but elevator down was to pull back, and elevator up was a push forward. He fly's this way still and maintains that this is how his gear was set up from the shop.

Edited By Denis Watkins on 02/01/2017 17:06:34

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I believe there is no mode that is "best" or "more natural" or "easier".

I know fantastic pilots that I really admire that fly mode 1. I also know several stunningly good pilots that fly mode 2. I even know one excellent pilot who flys mode 4! It really makes no difference.

I did a survey on here some years ago which asked three questions I seem to remeber:

1. What mode do you fly

2. What region of the country did you learn in

3. How old were old

If I remember correctly it showed that while there was a small influence due to age - with younger flyers slightly more likely to be mode 2, probably because og the effect of games consoles - the dominant factor in determining what mode you flew was where you learnt. As Martin says its a largely geographic thing. This isn't surprising really if you stop to think about it. If Mode X is popular in an area, then most of the instructors in that area will fly mode X - so they teach mode X - naturally. Of course now that more sophisticated Tx's don't need the buddy to be in the same mode as the master might that change? Probably not. The Midlands will I think always be a hot bed of Mode 1 flyers!

A quick story. A few years ago I was flying at Greenacres - near Walsall . I'd just landed, when the guy next to me on the flight line said "Oh I have something in my eye - I can't see - can you take my model for a moment while I sort it?" I was just about to say "yes of course" when I thought on,..."Er, what mode are you", he replied "Mode 1" Your on your own mate! (I did call someone else over of course) - but having experimented with Mode 1 on a simulator for fun there was no way I wanted to try it for real. As I say - there's nothing wrong with it but all my neurons are wired up the other way round!

BEB

[iqon]

Whats it matter what mode you fly.....none.......does not make the slightest bit of difference....as long as you are flying your own plane

[gangster]

Ah I am pleased to see this perenial debate has been got out the cupboard and dusted down again for the new yeae. .

We all know that is does not make a scrap of difference.

However I did try to put that old rubbish about the real plane business to the test, but crashed straight away on both modes, nothing to do with the merit of either mode but I found sitting on the transmitter made control difficult, and that is wher the real plane analogy falls flat.

Edited By gangster on 02/01/2017 17:15:22

[Cuban8]

My first set of proportional radio was a twin stick, 27 MHz AM Futaba two-channel outfit that I treated myself to shortly after starting work in 1973 (cost about sixty quid IIRC,or about a months wages for a sixteen year old trainee at the time) Steering on the right and elevator on the left, meant it was fixed as mode 1, and I've stuck with mode 1 ever since. If I'd had the cash to buy a four channel outfit at the time, chances are It'd probably have been mode 2. Nothing was said in the shop about modes, and it just so happened that the club I was in at the time also flew with throttle right, so I was unaware of any difference anyway.

[David Holland 2]

Goddness, I reckon you are going to regret letting this one out of the box. I fly Mode 1 and also fly full-size though I flew R/C before PPL. My first club was almost exclusively Mode 1 whereas I am the only Mode 1 in my current club. Certainly couldn't change now (old dog..new tricks?) Funny old world, innit?

David

[Tony Cook]

As a kid in the 70 s I struggled with mode 2 for over 6 months.. A club member altered my radio (manually in those days) to mode 1 and I was flying within 2 weekends!! So, I stayed with mode 1. Personally, I feel aerobatics are smoother ..but that's what I'm used to!! Surprisingly, I can fly mode 2 when a club member gets into trouble, save the plane and land without issue..still prefer mode 1 though!! I've only seen 1 person in my life fly mode 3

[Peter Christy]

Before proportional control came along, there was a system generally referred to as "reeds" or "bang-bang". The transmitters looked like this:

The switches on the right hand side moved sideways, and operated aileron and rudder respectively. The switches on the left had side moved fore and aft and operated (from top to bottom) throttle, elevator and elevator trim. When you pressed the aileron, rudder or elevator switches, the control would move fully over, and when the switch was released, they would center. The throttle and trim controls were "progressive", and would move in the desired direction until they reached their end stop, or the control was released, when they would stay put.

Any left hand switch could be operated with any right hand switch. So, for example, you could operate aileron and elevator simultaneously, or rudder and elevator, but not aileron and rudder. The transmitter was laid out to stop you trying an "illegal" command!

The system was surprisingly reliable, and for many years was the only way of flying models with more than one basic control.

When proportional control came along, many of the pilots who had become expert on "reed" sets had got so used to having the elevator under their left thumb that they found it hard to adapt to having aileron and elevator on a stick on the right. They moved the elevator to the left hand stick, and "Mode 1" was born. Naturally, new pilots that these experts taught also tended to be taught mode 1 for obvious reasons. This is why mode 1 is popular around regions where the old experts tended to congregate.

Novices teaching themselves tended to go for mode 2, as being closer to the full size experience. Both have advantages and disadvantages, but neither one nor the other can really be considered the better. It just depends on how you were taught and personal preference!

But that's the reason for the two modes! Here endeth the lesson!

--

Pete