Electric Cars.

[Nigel R]

On 16/10/2022 at 08:02, Piers Bowlan said:

bourgeoning population growth is probably the biggest threat with the strain on resources, loss of habitat and diversity too. EVs  are not much help with that, never mind global warning

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

 

7 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Gone are days of British glory, German mechanics etc, the EU ( geographically ) is well on it's way to a third world area,,,

 

We got second world status to breeze through before that happens.

[Trevor Crook]

Sad, but not surprising I suppose as all of BMW other electric models are already built in China.

[john davidson 1]

Just had a test drive of the electric Qashqui, petrol motor drives a generator , one electric motor drives the front wheels , full of tech like head up display but the price  is £37,000, no way would I pay that for a car 

[Rich Griff]

Interesting snippet on the Welsh news...

 

It rains a lot in Snowdonia, the wind blows and we even get some sunshine...

 

Anyways in 2015 a "hydro club" was set up in Bethesda/ogwen valley by 150 local people to produce hydro electricity. The project was/is successfully with profits reinvested in a second scheme selling hydo electricity to the grid.

 

Those profits were reinvested into local rugby club ( fields looks like would be a great flying site ) roof solar panels.

 

Profits further reinvested in a small fleet of electric cars/vans ( e vans, Evans 😁 ) for the local community. Profits also reinvested for community projects and even a food bank !

 

The nantlle valley were I live has orchards and vineyards as half the valley is south facing, and a small modern hydro scheme is in operation. In peny the old slate board works had a water wheel.

 

Some more research needed on the Bethesda scheme which could be applied to the Nantlle valley and similar areas.

 

So, local community owned community electric cars all powered by community owned hydro/solar electricity.

 

No wind turbines in our valley but there are wind turbines near the TV mast area....

[Gary Manuel]

Just an update on my complaint to Nissan about the reversing alarm.

So far, it has just bounced back and forth between customer service "experts" and myself to establish which standards / legislation is applicable.

Now it has been escalated to their Technical Department for further clarification.

They have not acknowledged that there is anything wrong with their reversing sound, but I have repeatedly called it an "illegal reversing alarm".

 

Thank you for raising my concerns with your Technical Department. Could you please confirm that the further clarification you are seeking is with regards to finding a mechanism for silencing the illegal reversing alarm rather than just providing further information about the AVAS system which I don't need?

 

I am 100% clear on the requirements of AVAS and I perfectly understand how Nissan have got themselves into this UK specific situation. As I understand it, in simple terms;

1. The Nissan Leaf type approval is based upon AVAS being implemented in accordance with EU540/2014 as amended by EU 2019/839.
2. The sound generated by the AVAS system must be a continuous sound which is similar to the sound of a vehicle of the same category equipped with an internal combustion engine (EU540/2014 Annex VIII III.3.(a) refers).
3. The sound of the Nissan reversing alarm is an intermittent metallic noise which is not permitted by EU540/2014 as amended by EU 2019/839 as a specific form of AVAS compliant sound.
4. Where a reversing alarm is fitted to a vehicle however, it is not necessary for the AVAS to generate an additional sound whilst reversing (EU540/2014 Annex VIII II.3.(a) refers).
5. In countries where reversing alarms are legal, Nissan appear to have a legal working solution.
6. Reversing alarms are illegal on non-commercial vehicles under 2000kg at any time within the UK and on all vehicles between the hours of 23:30 and 07:00. The illegal reversing alarm cannot therefore be used as an alternative to AVAS within the UK.
7. If the reversing alarm is silenced on UK based vehicles as I am requesting, another problem will be created. There will be no sound produced whilst reversing and a suitable AVAS compatible sound will be required whilst reversing, and this will need to be tested.

I am sympathetic to the situation that I am putting Nissan into, but I believe that I am correct that Nissan are producing an illegal vehicle within the UK. As the number of Nissan electric vehicles of this vintage increases, the noise nuisance will become more apparent and the number of complains and possible legal actions will rise. Imagine a blind person in a supermarket car park with multiple Nissan Leafs reversing and the confusing / hazardous noise this would create. This situation will require correcting at some point in time and surely it is better to address it sooner rather than later in order to minimise the number of vehicles which will require recalling for retrospective firmware alterations.

 

Could you please confirm your plan for making my Nissan Leaf legal for use within the UK.

 

Regards,

Gary Manuel

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Quote from Gary " Imagine a blind person in a supermarket car park with multiple Nissan Leafs reversing and the confusing / hazardous noise "

 

 Put the charging points as far as possible in the car park ie ; in an Essex shop put the charging points in Kent.😅

[Ron Gray]

Keep going Gary 👍

[Gary Manuel]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

Keep going Gary 👍

It's a 3 year lease, so I've got plenty of time.

[Philip Lewis 3]

If it's a lease car then you could also get the leasing copmpany involved, after all they have leased you a vehicle that is not road legal?

Edited October 23, 2022 by Philip Lewis 3

[Gary Manuel]

8 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

If it's a lease car then you could also get the leasing copmpany involved, after all they have leased you a vehicle that is not road legal?

Yes, I've thought of that. There's also the motor ombudsman and the press. I haven't made a formal complaint yet either. Plenty of options but that means letting someone else of unknown competence take over control of the situation, which will slow things down and won't be as focussed as my efforts. At the moment, I think I'm best trying to convince the people at Nissan that they have a problem. I think they are in denial - or more likely not admitting the problem due to the work / cost involved. They should have just fitted my car with a switch to silence the alarm like I asked for in the first place.

[Gary Manuel]

Progress? It's the first time they've referred to the reversing alarm as a separate entity to the AVAS system.  Not holding my breath.

 

*****************************

Dear Gary Manuel,

Thank you for your question. 

We can confirm that we are seeking clarification on the question of the reversing alarm which you raised. This has had to be raised with a different team but we will be in contact with you as soon as we have further information. 

Thank you for your patience while we work on the matter. 

Sincerely,
 

Jeet Customer Services Nissan Motor (GB) Limited Opening Hours Mon-Fri: 08:00 to 20:00, Sat: 08:00 to 14:00

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

27 minutes ago, Gary Manuel said:

Progress? It's the first time they've referred to the reversing alarm as a separate entity to the AVAS system.  Not holding my breath.

 

*****************************

Dear Gary Manuel,

Thank you for your question. 

We can confirm that we are seeking clarification on the question of the reversing alarm which you raised. This has had to be raised with a different team but we will be in contact with you as soon as we have further information. 

Thank you for your patience while we work on the matter. 

Sincerely,
 

Jeet Customer Services Nissan Motor (GB) Limited Opening Hours Mon-Fri: 08:00 to 20:00, Sat: 08:00 to 14:00

 

 

You'll get Asda'd. 😉

[Gary Manuel]

19 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

 

You'll get Asda'd. 😉

?

[Trevor Crook]

Some very interesting battery information in this video. If you aren't interested in the Leaf specific bits, a proper battery specialist is on from about 4 minutes in. Certainly explains why EV batteries last so much better than our LiPos.

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I’m sure our charging/storage regimes are less than ideal but I suspect that  our typical discharge rates of 5 - 15 C have a lot more to do with shorter battery life!

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Interesting, It looks like I will get my wife one of the Fiat 500 EV's when her Fiat goes bang,,,

[Trevor Crook]

I'm sure you are correct Martin, we do hammer them in our models. Mind you, as alluded to in the video, phone, tablet and laptop batteries don't tend to last too well, either, and they have a pretty gentle life. The LFP cells used in the latest Teslas and the MG4 sound very impressive, but I bet they aren't suited to our aggressive discharge rate.

[IDD15]

MG5 looks as if it will hold up well across wear & tear, mechanics/electrics, and drive battery metrics… Efficiency is looking good too.

 

Cleveley MG5 report

With its recent facelift think it’s going to be more popular. Certainly these Cleveley mobile workshops dispel the myth that EVs are only good for shopping imho. And you can do a Frunk conversion too!😀

 

idd

[Trevor Crook]

Yes, it's just a shame the seats don't fold flat.

[Gary Manuel]

1 hour ago, Trevor Crook said:

Yes, it's just a shame the seats don't fold flat.

Ah yes. That's the second thing I don't like about the otherwise great car. 

[Ron Gray]

Well nearly a year later and all has been quiet on this thread (apart from the sound of EVs reversing!). 

 

I have just purchased an EV, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 Nasman RWD! So what made me go for this car? I had certain criteria that any EV would have to have, realistic 300 mile range (ignoring factors such as very cold, dark days!), load space would have to be not less than that provided by my Toyota Corolla Sports Touring Hybrid, towbar nose weight limit would have to be sufficient to carry our 2 eBikes on their carrier and the drive would have to give us very little road noise on even the worst (concrete) A roads!

 

Last year, as I reported at the time, I test drove the then new MG4 a car that has been specifically designed from the outset as an EV and I was impressed. But the killer was that the tower limit was 50Kg which was 25Kg under what I required. Also the interior load space was a bit less than my Toyota and fitting the 1 piece wing of my Hurricane (83") would be difficult. Roll on a year and we made the decision that as the Toyota will be 5 years old next year (albeit it currently only has 30K miles on the clock) and as lead times for our choice of new EVs are in the region of 9 - 12 months now is the time to get looking. Our top 3 cars to look at were the Ioniq 5, the Kia EV6 and the Volvo XC40 (EV). So I went ahead and booked the Ioniq for a 2 hour (well it was actually bring it back when you've done!) drive and then approached my local Kia dealer who said it would be a 15 minute accompanied test drive. When I explained that I wanted to test fit some of my model aircraft in it I was told that wasn't allowed. On the basis of that I told the salesman that he had just lost a potential deal! As it happened I was able to have a good look around an EV6 and found that the load space was less than that of the Ioniq and the ride was both harsher and noisier too. the Volvo is a nice car but despite feeling bigger didn't seem to offer as much interior space as the Ioniq but it was quiet. Once agin I was able to get feedback from some owners who said that the claimed range was a bit optimistic. Anyway to cut a long story short, after test driving the Ioniq (AWD version) the salesman confirmed that my choice of vehicle would take up to 12 months to deliver but I had noticed that they had the Nasman in the showroom (more expensive but it was RWD) and was told that I could have that immediately, which is why I now have it!

 

It's only been a week but boy am I impressed with it. The load carrying capacity is greater than my Toyota which makes trips to the flying field a lot easier, it is very quiet and there is next to no road noise and so far, 200 miles, it is achieving  just over 4 miles / kWh, which when I eventually have to charge it using Octopus Go that works out at 2.4p / mile and gives me a real world mileage of over 300 miles. Are there any negatives well yes there are a couple, the original spec for the Nasman says that there is a rear view camera which works with the interior 'mirror', there isn't, seemingly they dropped that idea at the end of last year which means that as the rear screen hasn't got a wiper (self cleans with the airstream!!) in wet weather the conventional rear view mirror gets obscured with rainwater at low speeds. It has door cameras, not mirrors and these relay to small screens fitted to the inside of the doors, they are superb apart from in warm damp weather (last couple of days) condensation occurs on the inside of the lens making the rear view misty. It's going back to the garage for them to look at. Oh and yes, it does have a reversing beep but it isn't too annoying and the low speed forward motion noise sounds like an electric train pulling in at the station!

 

[Don Fry]

That thing sounds good. 
I am in no rush to change motors. I am  still waiting for for a eureka moment, like when Ford suddenly chucked out the Cortina, Escort, Transit, Fiesta, and the rest were playing catch-up. 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Clubmates just bought an MG (sorry don't know the model) nice looking vehicle.

[DaveB1]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

Well nearly a year later and all has been quiet on this thread (apart from the sound of EVs reversing!). 

 

I have just purchased an EV, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 Nasman RWD! So what made me go for this car? I had certain criteria that any EV would have to have, realistic 300 mile range (ignoring factors such as very cold, dark days!), load space would have to be not less than that provided by my Toyota Corolla Sports Touring Hybrid, towbar nose weight limit would have to be sufficient to carry our 2 eBikes on their carrier and the drive would have to give us very little road noise on even the worst (concrete) A roads!

 

Last year, as I reported at the time, I test drove the then new MG4 a car that has been specifically designed from the outset as an EV and I was impressed. But the killer was that the tower limit was 50Kg which was 25Kg under what I required. Also the interior load space was a bit less than my Toyota and fitting the 1 piece wing of my Hurricane (83") would be difficult. Roll on a year and we made the decision that as the Toyota will be 5 years old next year (albeit it currently only has 30K miles on the clock) and as lead times for our choice of new EVs are in the region of 9 - 12 months now is the time to get looking. Our top 3 cars to look at were the Ioniq 5, the Kia EV6 and the Volvo XC40 (EV). So I went ahead and booked the Ioniq for a 2 hour (well it was actually bring it back when you've done!) drive and then approached my local Kia dealer who said it would be a 15 minute accompanied test drive. When I explained that I wanted to test fit some of my model aircraft in it I was told that wasn't allowed. On the basis of that I told the salesman that he had just lost a potential deal! As it happened I was able to have a good look around an EV6 and found that the load space was less than that of the Ioniq and the ride was both harsher and noisier too. the Volvo is a nice car but despite feeling bigger didn't seem to offer as much interior space as the Ioniq but it was quiet. Once agin I was able to get feedback from some owners who said that the claimed range was a bit optimistic. Anyway to cut a long story short, after test driving the Ioniq (AWD version) the salesman confirmed that my choice of vehicle would take up to 12 months to deliver but I had noticed that they had the Nasman in the showroom (more expensive but it was RWD) and was told that I could have that immediately, which is why I now have it!

 

It's only been a week but boy am I impressed with it. The load carrying capacity is greater than my Toyota which makes trips to the flying field a lot easier, it is very quiet and there is next to no road noise and so far, 200 miles, it is achieving  just over 4 miles / kWh, which when I eventually have to charge it using Octopus Go that works out at 2.4p / mile and gives me a real world mileage of over 300 miles. Are there any negatives well yes there are a couple, the original spec for the Nasman says that there is a rear view camera which works with the interior 'mirror', there isn't, seemingly they dropped that idea at the end of last year which means that as the rear screen hasn't got a wiper (self cleans with the airstream!!) in wet weather the conventional rear view mirror gets obscured with rainwater at low speeds. It has door cameras, not mirrors and these relay to small screens fitted to the inside of the doors, they are superb apart from in warm damp weather (last couple of days) condensation occurs on the inside of the lens making the rear view misty. It's going back to the garage for them to look at. Oh and yes, it does have a reversing beep but it isn't too annoying and the low speed forward motion noise sounds like an electric train pulling in at the station!

 

Nice one Ron. I had a Jag iPace EV for 3 years as a company car and it was fabulous - such a great car to drive, but when it was due for replacement I also chose the Ioniq 5 Namsan. The additional range and quicker charging help negate the real issues I had with the infrequent long journey charging I struggled with. Expected to trial the 240V power source for field Lipo charging too, but all became academic when I took VR / early retirement before taking delivery, so someone else will get to enjoy it 🙂

[Ron Gray]

I haven't yet tried the V2L facility, maybe I'll take my coffee machine when I next go to the field!