Electric Cars.

[Learner]

No need to rush now!  Maybe new prices may drop to a sensible level (but I doubt it)

Edited September 21, 2023 by Learner

[Brian Cooper]

The thing which truly concerns me about 100% electric cars is their vulnerability to a lack of electricity. 

 

As the numbers of electric vehicles increases, the demands on the power stations will become untenable. 

We already have the ludicrous situation where the underground cabling cannot cope with more than three cars being fast-charged in a street if charging at home. 

 

And it is clearly evident that the infrastructure is not yet established away from home. . . I have witnessed long queues of cars waiting for their turn at recharging stations, and they can be waiting for hours. 

 

As stated at the start, they are vulnerable.  Any power cut, for whatever reason, leaves the car devoid of power.  

[Eric Robson]

Just completed a 750ml round trip to South Wales in my 2ltr automatic on a tank of diesel 80 mpg. 

I looked at an electric option when I bought it 2 years ago but my son and other family members lived 235 miles away. He lived in a village where his house had no vehicle access and at the time there was no charging points available there is 7 houses in the cu de sac only the first 2 are near enough to the road to get a lead out to charge a car. The parking area is very limited and often people have to park way down the road,  not the best option if you have an electric car. There must be many villages like this and a lot of people who can't afford an ev, with no bus services they will be cut off.

It may not matter much to me as I will soon be 88 and getting insurance is becoming more expensive, this year the company I had my house Insurance through said the were not taking anyone of my age on. I have a clean licence and no accidents, I said it was age discrimination but they said it was company policy. My insurance through the current provider had risen by £200.

[Zflyer]

Eric, I assume you the house insurance company were the one you were looking to insure your car with. I would hate to think you couldnt get house insurance because of your age.

As an aside I dont think company policies over ride legislation. 

[John Lee]

Under the 2010 Equality Act Insurance Companies can age discriminate if they base it on a reliable risk assessment. See this Citizens Advice page. 

[Eric Robson]

My home insurance was through a different company at renewal times they would advertise their car policies claiming to offer good deals due to being an existing customer. 

Thanks John, there is always a get out clause, the annoying thing is I am in good health, apart from some aches and pains, can still drive long periods and fly fast model aeroplanes for long flights without loosing concentration so I feel hard done by . There was talk some time ago about restricting older drivers to a 30 mile radius of their home , i would consider an electric car then if i coul get insurance 😀

[Tim Kearsley]

I just hope I'm as good as you when I reach 87 Eric!

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

On 03/09/2023 at 21:42, MattyB said:

Waiting a bit should also give us a few additional options used at a similar £15k price point (eg the MG4).

Where do you get £15.000 from over here it's,

 

Commercialisation et prix de la MG4 ; Standard, 29 990 € ; Comfort, 33 990 € ; Luxury, 35 990 € ; Luxury étendue, 39 490 € ; XPOWER, 40 490 € .

[Ron Gray]

I think Matty is thinking ahead to when the second hand prices for the MG4 will have dropped to £15K - 4 years?

[Ron Gray]

I have been watching the development of the re-charge infrastructure for the last couple of years and have just made the EV plunge as it is now much better than when I was first interested. 2 years ago my local town, Diss, had none now it has 2 supercharges at Morrisons and the council have installed 6 chargers in a public car park. There are also chargers at a BP station just outside Diss. I have had a look at these, both on the various apps I am ‘testing’ and physically and on each occasion all were working and there has only been 1 car using the in town ones when I was there (the BP ones had 2 cars using them). I am fortunate enough to be able to charge from home but even if I couldn’t then I can go into town to do it. 
 

Unlike my previous car (petrol hybrid) I now make sure that I have a minimum of circa 150 miles range ‘in the tank’ and top up each day (making use of the off peak cheap electric). Based on the 600 miles I have driven to date, I’m getting 4.1 miles per kWh, which when converted (44kWh per gallon of petrol) gives me 180mpg.

 

I no longer have to travel long distances, in fact the longest in the foreseeable future is down to Sussex, and will require a top up. When I was last down that way I stopped off at a service station (Pease Pottage) and was pleasantly surprised by the number of charges they had and was even more surprised by the lack of vehicles using them! On the basis of that I don’t think I’ll have a problem, but even if they are not working / busy there are a few other locations that I could go to.

 

I know that there are issues in some locations but the infrastructure is improving at a fast rate, take a look at Gridserve

[Zflyer]

Thanks for that tit bit John, now all they have to do is provide the reliable risk assessment criteria so the subject of the assessment can judge it applies and maybe contest it.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Eric, there have been massive premium hikes in the last year so your age may not have been the significant factor. 

[Eric Robson]

39 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Eric, there have been massive premium hikes in the last year so your age may not have been the significant factor. 

It is when a company turns you down because of it Martin. How much longer before others follow? Some of the quotes I had would price many of my age off the road.

[Learner]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

I have been watching the development of the re-charge infrastructure for the last couple of years and have just made the EV plunge as it is now much better than when I was first interested. 2 years ago my local town, Diss, had none now it has 2 supercharges at Morrisons and the council have installed 6 chargers in a public car park. There are also chargers at a BP station just outside Diss. I have had a look at these, both on the various apps I am ‘testing’ and physically and on each occasion all were working and there has only been 1 car using the in town ones when I was there (the BP ones had 2 cars using them). I am fortunate enough to be able to charge from home but even if I couldn’t then I can go into town to do it. 
 

Unlike my previous car (petrol hybrid) I now make sure that I have a minimum of circa 150 miles range ‘in the tank’ and top up each day (making use of the off peak cheap electric). Based on the 600 miles I have driven to date, I’m getting 4.1 miles per kWh, which when converted (44kWh per gallon of petrol) gives me 180mpg.

 

I no longer have to travel long distances, in fact the longest in the foreseeable future is down to Sussex, and will require a top up. When I was last down that way I stopped off at a service station (Pease Pottage) and was pleasantly surprised by the number of charges they had and was even more surprised by the lack of vehicles using them! On the basis of that I don’t think I’ll have a problem, but even if they are not working / busy there are a few other locations that I could go to.

 

I know that there are issues in some locations but the infrastructure is improving at a fast rate, take a look at Gridserve

Why would you need a top up are you not getting 300 miles range? What you need is a nice 5yr old economical toyota sport touring with 5yrs warranty left. It might cost you £40 in fuel but you'd have saved £55k😉

Edited September 21, 2023 by Learner

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

I think Matty is thinking ahead to when the second hand prices for the MG4 will have dropped to £15K - 4 years?

 

Correct. It should be a bit sooner than that though I would think; there are already used ones appearing at just over £20k now. Given the fact that new EVs are depreciating a bit more than ICE in their initial years, I would say it will be between 2-3 years old for the standard range MG4.

 

We might leap sooner than that with a gen 2 Leaf, Corsa-e or e-208 though, as those have been out longer so are already much more affordable already, if not quite so accomplished cars. That doesn't matter much to us though as we only need the pure EV to be a local runabout 99% of the time.

Edited September 21, 2023 by MattyB

[Tim Kearsley]

42 minutes ago, Learner said:

Why would you need a top up are you not getting 300 miles range? What you need is a nice 5yr old economical toyota sport touring with 5yrs warranty left. It might cost you £40 in fuel but you'd have saved £55k😉

Some of us have more ambition though!

[Ron Gray]

46 minutes ago, Learner said:

Why would you need a top up are you not getting 300 miles range?

No I’m not, I’m getting more than that, but it’s more economical to top up with cheap electricity!

 

48 minutes ago, Learner said:

What you need is a nice 5yr old economical toyota sport touring with 5yrs warranty left

Mine was 4 years old and averaged 60 mpg if you were careful.

 

49 minutes ago, Learner said:

but you'd have saved £55k

Did I want to save it or get a new car? 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Learner said:

Why would you need a top up are you not getting 300 miles range? What you need is a nice 5yr old economical toyota sport touring with 5yrs warranty left. It might cost you £40 in fuel but you'd have saved £55k😉

 

Hmmm, it seems like there is a bit of grumpyness and dare I say envy creeping into this thread.

 

I don't see anyone here disputing that this generation of EVs are expensive new. However, just because they aren't yet a comparable price to ICE cars (which remember have had 100+ years of development and manufacturing scale to reduce their prices to current levels), doesn't mean we should criticise people for buying one. Ron has earned that money, and it's his to spend on whatever means of transport (or indeed anything else) that he likes. Do you also look down your nose at someone who arrives at the patch with an expensive model that you may not be able to afford, or do you just watch and enjoy the spectacle?

 

At the end of the day some people want the very cheapest way to transport their family and stuff around, and that's absolutely fine. Others want a vehicle that does more than that, or dare I say it just one that makes them smile when they look at it or drive it. Last time I looked, neither of those was illegal...

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by MattyB

[MattyB]

PS... On writing the above, I remembered this post from @Tim Kearsley in the low carbon life thread. It very much sums up my experience every time I have driven an EV - it's just so much quieter and more relaxing to travel in, then on top of that there is the performance...

 

On 04/09/2023 at 18:09, Tim Kearsley said:

In all the talk of the planet-saving (or not) people are forgetting another reason for buying an electric vehicle - they are so much better to drive and so much cheaper to run.

- instant response

- stupendous acceleration

- no annoying exhaust noise

- no horrible stink of fuel or exhaust fumes

- cheap as chips to run

 

I love the way the dedicated EV-bashers never have any other solution to offer.  It's child's play to criticise, much harder to offer an alternative. It makes me laugh how they always point out to me the disadvantages too - having to wait 20 minutes to charge, range anxiety etc - as though I'm not aware of all that!  I know I'll never buy another ICE car.

 

Does an EV have the "soul" when compared against some exotic fire-breathing ICE supercar? Maybe not, but frankly all of the previous ICE cars I've owned have just been 4 cylinder family machines, so none of them did either. I know which type of powertrain I prefer to drive day in and day out, and even if the infrastructure isn't quite there yet for long drives, I don't do enough of those these days for that to worry me.

 

YMMV (literally! 😄).

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by MattyB

[Tim Kearsley]

Spot on Matty.  I paid £57k for my Tesla Model 3 Performance in September, 2020.  I never dreamed I would spend that much on a car.  But the money was losing value in a savings account and I'm 68 years old, so why not spend it?  Similarly, we bought solar panels and battery 18 months ago with another £10k of money that was likewise just losing value in real terms.  We earn it, we do what we like with it - each to their own. 

[Frank Skilbeck]

1 hour ago, MattyB said:

 

 

We might leap sooner than that with a gen 2 Leaf, Corsa-e or e-208 though, as those have been out longer so are already much more affordable already, if not quite so accomplished cars. That doesn't matter much to us though as we only need the pure EV to be a local runabout 99% of the time.

Daughter recently got a 12 month old Corsa E, very pleased with it. After riding in that decide to get a 2nd hand electric Mini to replace our old Colt, what a hoot and currently averaging 4.8 miles per kwh, when we get our smart meter we'll be able to charge up overnight at 7.5p per kwh.

 

 

[Tim Kearsley]

We charge the Tesla and my partner's Seat Mii with a Pod Point charger (7kW) using the Octopus Go tariff.  For the last 12 months that was 7.5p/kWh for four hours per night but is going up to 9.5p/kWh in October.  Even at that, as I get, on average, about 3.5 miles/kWh it represents less than 3p/mile.  In the four hour window I get about 40% added to the car's state of charge.

When we do longer journeys, I plan where I'll stop and have a break and charge.  Usually its a Tesla supercharger and usually I'm there about 30 minutes, but I've used Instavolt, public Pod Point and Genie.  I don't personally find the range thing to be the problem that the anti-EV brigade like to drone on about.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Tim Kearsley

[GrumpyGnome]

15 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

........ the problem that the anti-EV brigade like to drone on about.

That's a bit harsh....

Edited September 21, 2023 by GrumpyGnome

[Learner]

 

1 hour ago, MattyB said:

 

Hmmm, it seems like there is a bit of grumpyness and dare I say envy creeping into this thread.

 

I don't see anyone here disputing that this generation of EVs are expensive new. However, just because they aren't yet a comparable price to ICE cars (which remember have had 100+ years of development and manufacturing scale to reduce their prices to current levels), doesn't mean we should criticise people for buying one. Ron has earned that money, and it's his to spend on whatever means of transport (or indeed anything else) that he likes. Do you also look down your nose at someone who arrives at the patch with an expensive model that you may not be able to afford, or do you just watch and enjoy the spectacle?

 

At the end of the day some people want the very cheapest way to transport their family and stuff around, and that's absolutely fine. Others want a vehicle that does more than that, or dare I say it just one that makes them smile when they look at it or drive it. Last time I looked, neither of those was illegal...

 

No your right I do get envious and grumpy when people spend their money on nice cars and expensive models that I cant afford.

Fortunately it very rarely happens!

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Learner

[Learner]

6 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

That's a bit harsh....

Not a suprise from the anti i.c brigade