The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by john stones 1 on 24/10/2019 22:02:43:

Ah I see, committee already polices stuff, they enforce BMFA membership for one thing, and rightly so, can't see what Richard said wrong ?

 

What Richard said is in direct conflict with what the BMFA advice says regarding club responsibility (see item 11).

Checking BMFA membership is a once a year thing. Checking compliance with these new regulations would be ongoing thing.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 24/10/2019 22:13:42

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Still don't see the issue sorry, you/we don't check everything on a daily basis now, but the club is more than the BMFA says, we have a lease/club to protect as well.

I'll leave it be.

[Chris Berry]

It comes down to what is reasonable. Is it reasonable to ask the member for proof if BMFA membership, as most clubs do......Yes

Is it reasonable to ask for proof of registration and where appropriate completion of an online test? Therefore compliance with the law and therefore flying lawfully at a club...... Probably/maybe.

Is it reasonable to check every model has a number displayed on each visit to the field, after crash and repair etc etc....No.

Is it reasonable to require the member to sign each year a renewal form, membership card etc etc agreeing to abide by the club rules and the law governing model aircraft? Therefore the member has signed to say they will abide by the law, be that their own fitness to fly, registration etc etc....Yes.

 

Edited By Chris Berry on 24/10/2019 23:25:30

[Jason-I]

Posted by Steve J on 24/10/2019 21:37:59:

Posted by CARPERFECT on 24/10/2019 20:19:00:

DOES that all sound correct ?

Can you come up with a plausible argument that either you or your son 'have management of' all 15 planes? Does one of you determine when, where and by whom the models are flown?

Nonsense.

Dad is the operator and a pilot. The son is just a remote pilot. All planes carry an operator number.

This fully complies with the letter and spirit of the law.

How complicated do you want to make it?

Edited By Jason-I on 24/10/2019 23:42:32

[Richard Acland]

Posted by Chris Berry on 24/10/2019 23:24:35:

It comes down to what is reasonable. Is it reasonable to ask the member for proof if BMFA membership, as most clubs do......Yes

Is it reasonable to ask for proof of registration and where appropriate completion of an online test? Therefore compliance with the law and therefore flying lawfully at a club...... Probably/maybe.

Is it reasonable to check every model has a number displayed on each visit to the field, after crash and repair etc etc....No.

Is it reasonable to require the member to sign each year a renewal form, membership card etc etc agreeing to abide by the club rules and the law governing model aircraft? Therefore the member has signed to say they will abide by the law, be that their own fitness to fly, registration etc etc....Yes.

Edited By Chris Berry on 24/10/2019 23:25:30

If the insurers make it a stipulation that to be covered you need to complete registration, then clubs will need to check everyone has done so. If not then it will be up to each individual to register themselves. In which case some might not bother. To me that will render the whole thing pointless

[cymaz]

I think I’ve got this correct...

• all operators/owners of aircraft over 250g must register and pay £9
• If you fly and have no A test, £9 fee and pass the free online test every 3 years. Place your operating number on the plane
• If you fly and have an A,B, LMA SAA proficiency then you just pay the £9 every year. The bmfa will pass on your details to the CAA who will issue you a number. As you have a recognised achievement you are exempt from the online test.

Assuming you are a member of said organisations

[Chris Berry]

Posted by cymaz on 25/10/2019 06:42:36:

I think I’ve got this correct...

• all operators/owners of aircraft over 250g must register and pay £9
• If you fly and have no A test, £9 fee and pass the free online test every 3 years. Place your operating number on the plane
• If you fly and have an A,B, LMA SAA proficiency then you just pay the £9 every year. The bmfa will pass on your details to the CAA who will issue you a number. As you have a recognised achievement you are exempt from the online test.

Assuming you are a member of said organisations

Correct. That’s all there is to it. No more, no less!

[Ron Gray]

The operating number can go inside the ‘plane in an ‘easily accessible place’.

The BMFA will only forward your details if you opt in for registration through the BMFA.

You do not have to be registered to belong to the BMFA (insurance position should be clarified this week?).

This is only applicable up to June next year when it will all probably change and whilst the BMFA have asked us all to abide by the law and register, some may / have argued that it may be prudent to wait and see.

In the meantime we can all buy a DLG, 1500mm WS, less than 250g and have lots of fun.

[J D 8]

Last year on a nice clear day I spotted a glint from aircraft high overhead, nothing unusual in that but when I saw it again in the same place a couple of mins later I got the binoculars out. It was a Reaper that was circling above.

I also happen to live directly under the main air corridor for airliners departing/arriving over the Atlantic so I guess it was above or below them.

[Former Member]

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[MattyB]

Posted by Jeremy Wilkins on 28/10/2019 10:58:23:

Hi all.

Latest BMFA 'News Flash' (seems to be that the two posts dated 28 October 2019 on the BMFA website are identical). Link

Cheers,

Jeremy Wilkins

No doubt Bruce will be along within 48hrs to explain to them why they are wrong... (having said that it looks like he has rather rowed back on his previous video on the topic).

Ultimately we can rant and rave about the BMFA and other national associations if we like, but it won't make any difference - they were essentially negotiating with a wall until Mr Shapps came along at the eleventh hour, so it is no wonder the concessions gained have been very limited. We are a small sport in terms of participation, far too small to be electorally significant, so the government were always going to do pretty much whatever they wanted to go after the £s and jobs they believe are available from commercial use of the low level airspace.

[Trevor Crook]

I think the scheme we have ended up with is much better than feared, so hats off to the BMFA for their negotiation and for taking on most of the admin.

When I started rc flying, I had to obtain a transmitting licence and specify which post office was closest to my flying site - so much for the good old days!

[Cuban8]

Bad law is bad law, whether it affects millions of people or just a few tens of thousands or just half a dozen. The financial boom that is expected from the so called exploitation of low level airspace still remains nebulous and open to all manner of PR waffle and down right fantasy from several sources. A degree of 'normalisation ' in terms of what we'll see to be truly practical will eventual take hold and a more sensible approach to our use of the air above our flying fields will eventually be forthcoming in time. Just because a lobby group says that something will come about doesn't mean that it'll fulfil all the expectations. I remind everyone of nuclear power that was going to be so efficient, electricity would be too cheap to meter. Where did that end up?

Time will tell, in the mean time, enjoy the hobby.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Chairmans comments...I had a club mate on phone tother day, he's jacking it in, Why ? because of xyz, really you'll have to pay £9 same time as your BMFA, you have an A cert already so what's your problem ? err well, uhm but.

Fetch your stuff to the field, I'll give you a £1 for it, can't pay you more as we're doomed, we're doomed I tell you.

[leccyflyer]

Anyone seriously considering giving up the hobby over a £9 registration fee + or - having to take an online test really needs to get a grip.

[cymaz]

I can’t see what there is to fuss over. Anyone with an A or equivalent just pays £9 to have the registration done through the BMFA....easy.

[Cuban8]

Regular flyers who are fully engaged with the hobby, will I'm sure, simply grit their teeth and carry on. An unknown is how many who pay their subs year after year but never seem to actually do any flying (about a quarter of the membership of most clubs, I suppose) will react. I suspect that a significant number will not bother to carry on , because of the extra faff and expense, maybe just putting off rejoining clubs and Bmfa 'until they get around to it'.....so possibly never.

I expect quite a drop in the number of my club's armchair flyers next year who have been subsidising the regulars for years. Can't say I blame them for packing it in, but it'll have its effect on club finances. The perfect storm given the increasing age of those that tend to fall into the 'armchair flyer ' category more so than others and keep rejoining out of habit and good intentions in my experience

Perhaps a poll of club membership numbers and subsequent changes would be interesting. My own club for which I manage the membership renewals currently has 107.

Edited By Cuban8 on 28/10/2019 18:31:49

[Don Fry]

So, a list. The BMFA has achieved, from the admittedly stupid Government proposals.

Control line fliers don't register.

Six quid off the original demand.

Dont have to do the CAA idiot test.

Government does not re-embourse the BFMA for its new duties as a collector for the Government. (User pays?)

Anything else?

I am not knocking the BMFA. Shifting polititions when the get in their trench is between difficult and impossible. But that is the list. Subject to advise from those better informed than me.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Never had an issue with our armchair flyers ? they've subsidised us for years, never grumble when BMFA fee goes up, never grumble when club fee goes up, in fact they grumble at nowt.

We have a grumbler or two who fly regular mind, more they get, more they grumble.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Common sense would suggest that a copy on the club notice board should suffice in the case of members flying at our club.

I do see why it's worded that way in the case of lone flyers though.

I know, I know...when has common sense ever been applied by officialdom...lets hope the CAA will be more pragmatic than the average...

 

On the subject of armchair flyers - and yes, we're grateful for their financial contributions - there's no compulsion for the truly dedicated ones to register as either pilots or operators unless they are of the "get someone else to fly it for me" persuasion.

Edited By Martin Harris on 28/10/2019 19:00:57

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by Steve J on 28/10/2019 18:42:41:

The CAA published exemptions to ANO articles 94D and 94F earlier today. The ones of interest to BMFA members are 1324 and 1326.

It is worth noting that people making use of these exemptions are supposed to carry copies of them.

Steve

Will it be a criminal offence not to carry a copy - even if you are competent / registered and labelled up in accordance with the legislation? Or can you produce your documents at a later date, in a similar way to HORT/1 when asked to show your driving documents.

This is getting really silly now. This is a hobby!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Documents, I carry my club card, my BMFA, need proof to collect a missed parcel from the P.O depot, my flight box is stuffed with instructions for stuff, car gets used to drag trailers and field work equipment, open weekend paraphernalia , shan't be fretting myself.