leccyflyer Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Another example of over-thinking. If you've used a screwdriver to fit your hatch then clearly that isn't a special tool. If it's a TORX or star driver, or similar then it probably is a special tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The CAA are the ones over thinking it by mentioning special tools in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by cymaz on 18/11/2019 06:22:50: If the CAA could define what a special tool is or isn’t , that might clear up some confusion They have clarified. They now state it should be removable without ANY tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by leccyflyer on 18/11/2019 06:40:13: Another example of over-thinking. If you've used a screwdriver to fit your hatch then clearly that isn't a special tool. If it's a TORX or star driver, or similar then it probably is a special tool. Screwdrivers have been classed as 'special tools" by the CAA and are not permitted. Hatches should be removable without any tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 If that's the case then it's a great example of what happens when someone tries to be too clever for their own good and seeks to have things spelled out which should be self-evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Thanks for the replies re my query. This issue is getting to be as complicated as Brexit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHN MOSLEY 2 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Its just so easy to register and take the simple CAA test you get the numbers by email immediately. You still have to pay the same amount however you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Magnet fixed to inside the model skin somewhere Magnetic label with number on That way you can have it outside, have it easily removable not spoil your scale model it's just an idea, haven't tried it Edited By will -0 on 18/11/2019 08:49:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 08:31:23: No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside. Do you have a reference for that? If that is the case it would mean having to put some battery hatches retained by magnets on half a dozen models, which would be a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by leccyflyer on 18/11/2019 09:07:24: Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 08:31:23: No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside. Do you have a reference for that? If that is the case it would mean having to put some battery hatches retained by magnets on half a dozen models, which would be a pain. No link as yet. Had feedback from the LMA AGM that I couldn't attend. However, is a wing just a glorified hatch covering a cavity in the fuselage and by using finger tightening bolts you're not using a specialist tool? Just a thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 As has already been said by others, aren’t we in danger of overthinking this? My thoughts are that I will comply with the spirit of the law which may actually not be the letter of the law. In other words, my ID will be in the ‘plane but a screwdriver may be required to get to it. Personally, as long as my ID is in place then I don’t think that a prosecution would be brought to bear on the basis that it needed a screwdriver to get to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 09:16:45: Posted by leccyflyer on 18/11/2019 09:07:24: Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 08:31:23: No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside. Do you have a reference for that? If that is the case it would mean having to put some battery hatches retained by magnets on half a dozen models, which would be a pain. No link as yet. Had feedback from the LMA AGM that I couldn't attend. However, is a wing just a glorified hatch covering a cavity in the fuselage and by using finger tightening bolts you're not using a specialist tool? Just a thought? I've always said that a wing is a glorified dual purpose battery hatch when asked about the lack of a hatch on the Balsacraft funfighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Ron Gray on 18/11/2019 09:24:52: As has already been said by others, aren’t we in danger of overthinking this? My thoughts are that I will comply with the spirit of the law which may actually not be the letter of the law. In other words, my ID will be in the ‘plane but a screwdriver may be required to get to it. Personally, as long as my ID is in place then I don’t think that a prosecution would be brought to bear on the basis that it needed a screwdriver to get to it! That would seem to be the position that a reasonable person would adopt on reading the text stating that a hatch which does not require the use of a special tool to access the number is permitted. However when some "special tool" seeks clarification of such a term then the outcome may not be what is desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 not been cheeky to everyone---But a lot of song and dance about putting a set of numbers on a model aircraft---I believe the numbers have to be 4mm high?... probably not much bigger smaller than what i'm typing in front of me ….. fair enough the scale model lads wont be 100% happy- but I think we can all live with the fact....whether they are in the model or outside I don't think will be any big deal long term- as long as the owner can be id'd should the occasion arise which I don't think will be very often - if at all.. so back to more important things(Santa) is on his way... ken anderson...ne..1..important things dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 18/11/2019 09:42:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterF Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by leccyflyer on 18/11/2019 09:30:15: Posted by Ron Gray on 18/11/2019 09:24:52: As has already been said by others, aren’t we in danger of overthinking this? My thoughts are that I will comply with the spirit of the law which may actually not be the letter of the law. In other words, my ID will be in the ‘plane but a screwdriver may be required to get to it. Personally, as long as my ID is in place then I don’t think that a prosecution would be brought to bear on the basis that it needed a screwdriver to get to it! That would seem to be the position that a reasonable person would adopt on reading the text stating that a hatch which does not require the use of a special tool to access the number is permitted. However when some "special tool" seeks clarification of such a term then the outcome may not be what is desired. From an earlier post within this topic, page 18. This is me copying the text from the previous topic which was not mine, I am quoting someone else's conversation with CAA. I have had an email exchange with the CAA in which I asked for a definition of 'special tool'. Their response - "... we will be updating the service with the following: Where it is not possible to display your operator number on the outside of your drone or model aircraft, you may instead attach it on the inside- within a compartment that can easily be accessed by anyone, without the need for ANY tools or specialist equipment." Edited By PeterF on 18/11/2019 10:13:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 This is all so unintentionally funny it would've made a great piece for the old TV series 'That's Life' that only a few of us oldies will remember. To be more practical - in the case of a lovely competition scale model, what about having the operator number attached to a suitable part of the airframe only when flying? A small and unobtrusive clip on type widget with the regulation sticker, that can be easily removed for judging and simply attached before flying i.e clipped in position by hand. Just check it's in place as part of preflight checks. Don't think that falls foul of any rules, but you never know............. Edited By Cuban8 on 18/11/2019 10:39:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Cuban8 on 18/11/2019 10:35:54: This is all so unintentionally funny it would've made a great piece for the old TV series 'That's Life' that only a few of us oldies will remember. To be more practical - in the case of a lovely competition scale model, what about having the operator number attached to a suitable part of the airframe only when flying? A small and unobtrusive clip on type widget with the regulation sticker, that can be easily removed for judging and simply attached before flying i.e clipped in position by hand. Just check it's in place as part of preflight checks. Don't think that falls foul of any rules, but you never know............. Edited By Cuban8 on 18/11/2019 10:38:09 Cuban, see my suggestion above. Don't see why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Will-O Didn't see that, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Steve J on 18/11/2019 10:32:13: BMFA online test is now available. I've just done the test, although i don't need to and its very straightforward. Easier than A or B questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by ken anderson. on 18/11/2019 09:42:19: not been cheeky to everyone---But a lot of song and dance about putting a set of numbers on a model aircraft---I believe the numbers have to be 4mm high?... probably not much bigger smaller than what i'm typing in front of me ….. fair enough the scale model lads wont be 100% happy- but I think we can all live with the fact....whether they are in the model or outside I don't think will be any big deal long term- as long as the owner can be id'd should the occasion arise which I don't think will be very often - if at all.. so back to more important things(Santa) is on his way... ken anderson...ne..1..important things dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 18/11/2019 09:42:53 My issue is that when you fly a normal IC aircraft, say a WOT4 or Acrowot or Bullet type sports model that's 10 years old, well flown and oil covered. It has no hatches or canopies etc, then how long will a label last?. Its flown all year, winter and summer, is sprayed with cleaner and wiped down at the end of every session. I can't see it lasting long and will probably change every year or in a few months time. Edited By Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 11:01:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Burn it on with a soldering iron, on a 10 year old WOT4 it would blend in quite nicely. Edited By Ron Gray on 18/11/2019 10:57:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 10:47:01: My issue is that when you fly a normal IC aircraft, say a WOT4 or Acrowot or Bullet type sports model that's 10 years old, well flown and oil covered. It has no hatches or canopies etc, then how long will a label last?. Its flown all year, winter and summer, is sprayed with cleaner and wiped down at the end of every session. I can't see it lasting long. Apparently in Germany the number has to be on a stamped metal plate fixed to the model, that would be fuel proof. But in reality you could always just stick the number on this type of model and replace as required, or even stamp /engrave it on the undercarriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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