The big question, WHEN

[Richard Ashworth]

I don’t fully understand the 2 people different households limit as it seems to be being applied to both golf and tennis recreational activities.

No doubt we will get another version tomorrow.

The good news is that those policing it probably won’t either!

[Doctor Chinnery]

Well, weather permitting a few of us will be going up to the field on Thursday morning - don't worry - with the usual gloves, sanitiser etc. And all of us old enough and ugly enough to be trusted to stand 2m apart at all times and comply with all the recommendations we've had from Head Office. Let's face it - we're trying NOT to catch that evil virus, not the opposite. The only downside of the easing of restrictions: from now on the garden will only be getting 1/3 of my free time as from mid-week 1/3 will be spent on flying and related matters - the residual 1/3 (after tea 'till dark) will involve a fly rod and until now, some very neglected rainbow trout. Thanks Boris & Co..

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Mr Chinnery on 12/05/2020 01:03:17:

Well, weather permitting a few of us will be going up to the field on Thursday morning - don't worry - with the usual gloves, sanitiser etc. And all of us old enough and ugly enough to be trusted to stand 2m apart at all times and comply with all the recommendations we've had from Head Office. Let's face it - we're trying NOT to catch that evil virus, not the opposite. The only downside of the easing of restrictions: from now on the garden will only be getting 1/3 of my free time as from mid-week 1/3 will be spent on flying and related matters - the residual 1/3 (after tea 'till dark) will involve a fly rod and until now, some very neglected rainbow trout. Thanks Boris & Co..

Same for me. My runner bean sticks are in and the beans are in a cold frame ready to be planted, there's a new toy plane to fly, and our local river, full of in our case brownies, is opening tomorrow. So the beans have to be planted today or they won't get planted at all

[andyh]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 11/05/2020 20:23:22:

Here's a half serious question regarding "meeting up" with only one person at the flying field.

Does this effectively limit the FLIGHT LINE and therefore the number of models in the air to 2? There might be many more members at the field, but is the flight line the real area where we need to control things?

we are viewing the flightline/pilot box as the "public gathering" & limiting that to two pilots at a time. the rest of the field will just be people doing some socially-distanced sunbathing/picnicking/etc. :D

I think the police are going to have better things to do than worry about a bunch of model flyers in a field, so long as we're being sensible, & the worst they can do (the first time at least) is ask people to go home.

the rules are pretty confusing - as best I can make out, you can meet other people, so long as only one is a family member, & you've brought the fox & the grain, but left the chicken at home.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We're going with "Stay Alert" good enough for the workforce, good enough for us.

[Peter Christy]

With the prolonged wet winter, followed by the lockdown, our field has not been mown since October last year. By now it probably looks like the Amazon jungle, and is unlikely to be flyable. I expect it to take at least two long mowing sessions to make it usable again.

This field is in the middle of nowhere. When a medical emergency arose a year ago, even the ambulance couldn't find it despite being given co-ordinates! (They had to be met at the nearest main road and escorted!) In short, it is as isolated as you can get.

Later this week two of us will travel there - in separate cars - to get the mower re-started and start mowing. In the big outdoors, and with us both being sensible, I see any danger of infection to either of us as trivial. Certainly far less than simply walking to the corner shop.

We are all grown-ups, and whilst I understand the authorities (and my!) concerns about this infection spreading, it is simply not possible to create a "one size fits all" set of rules for every area of the country. At the end of the day, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions. In my case, I regard any risk of going to the field to prepare it for future use as virtually non-existent.

By the time we have knocked it into shape, no doubt the advice from government will have changed again. But please, let's not leap into angry criticism of those who have taken a measured look at the risks involved in our activities, and come to a reasonable decision - in either direction. The risks in my rural location will be very different from those near a major conurbation and cannot be judged by the same criteria.

--

Pete

[Peter Miller]

Well we only have 12 members and only about half are likely to come.

WE have traffic cones used to mark the pilot area so they can be spaced at over 2 meters and with a 100 yard square field there is plenty of room to keep apart.

Put it this way, we will be far safer flying there than if we are in a Supermarket.

[Eric Robson]

If you are a Lert. you can have more freedom, so let us all be Lerts. but if you are a Fraid then stay at home.

[Dai Fledermaus]

There been a similar conversation on the BMFA Facebook page with members pontificating endlessly to the point where admin ended it.

As I see it, if you're happy to used your club field under the Government guidelines, go fly. If not stay home. Simple.

[Peter Christy]

"Be alert! Your country needs lerts!"

[Peter Jenkins]

Peter - it's "Keep a lert. The country needs lerts."

[Peter Miller]

From what I can see some peoples lerts have died.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by john stones 1 on 12/05/2020 08:13:43:

We're going with "Stay Alert" good enough for the workforce, good enough for us.

"Stay Alert" is essentially meaningless, it will lead to another spike in infections, and it is the government abrogating blame because of the inevitable public enquiry.

 

We have had a fake lock down where everyone still goes out and half the country are still going to work.

We had a silent triage where they let the vulnerable die without taking them to hospitals.

They are letting people back to work on the basis of negative test results, even though the tests have a 30% false negative rate.

They are only testing symptomatic cases even though pre-symptomatic people are the most infectious.

Approx 700 people die each day according to government statistics, which have been proven to under report by 50-100%.

They keep going on about keeping the R below 1, even though R needs to fall significantly below 1 for the sickness and death rate to decline any time soon.

There is zero advice about how to quarantine within a home, or how to treat people at home.

Yet despite having the HIGHEST NUMBER OF DEATHS IN EUROPE as a result of the most lax lockdown (and no shutdown of all non-essential business) everyone is behaving like we have the most hardcore lockdown.

Nobody understands why there are so many deaths, and an awful lot of people think the government is doing an amazing job because positive thoughts and the blitz spirit will solve everything.

Nobody seems to understand that the reason lockdown is lifting elsewhere is because other places have the disease under control, with fewer new infections, while we still have huge community spread and effectively no knowledge of where the virus is spreading to and how.

 

Unfortunately, as club chairman, I have to herd a bunch of stroppy, geriatric cats so emphasising the BMFA advice is the best I can offer to them. A rota for going to the field? Partitioning the pits and flightline? HA! Unworkable.

Edited By Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 12/05/2020 10:42:01

[Doctor Chinnery]

Peter - I wanna be a Lert as well - where do you apply for membership? Will they send me a badge and membership card - might save an awful lot of time when challenged by the authorities you when going about your lawful (SWMBO might regard them as awful but that's bye the bye) occasions, if you can reassure them that you are an actual card carrying Lert.

( If they supply badges, I can pin it to my hat with the tinfoil lining.) 🤔

[Dwain Dibley.]

I got my own Badge on my Work fleece.

Keeps things Normal.

D.D.

[Maurice Dyer]

AAhhh,,,,,,,,stroppy geriatric cats, That SO rings a bell with this Chairman.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Odd. Hopefully not tempting fate but we must be doing something wrong as our membership seems largely supportive of the committee and willing to listen to reasoned argument. There's no lack of grey hair though.

[Gary52]

Rather than follow the lead of the rabid media, perhaps we should look at things coolly and with a view to re-instating flying safely at club level.

If we can go to a shop and socially distance, helped by the shop, we can surely put together a plan, as individual clubs, to recreate this on an open field. Sensible advise has been passed on by the BMFA and with a little bit of thought, I am sure that clubs can come up with something, as I am sure our club will. Common sense is something we use every time we go flying and doesn't need a government order for us to use it.

It is easy for some people to use the forum for politically motivated (often ill informed and conspiracy based) rants, but this does little to move us forward.

If we are to make comparisons, we would need to have 48,000 dead to get anywhere near the death rate of Belgium, the home of the EU. Trying to mislead with false comparisons is self-serving at the very least.

Let's work on getting flying models, rather than off the handle.

[andyh]

Posted by Gary52 on 12/05/2020 13:17:46:

It is easy for some people to use the forum for politically motivated (often ill informed and conspiracy based) rants ...

... 48,000 dead to get anywhere near the death rate of Belgium , the home of the EU. Trying to mislead with false comparisons is self-serving at the very least.

we're at 40k dead now (latest ONS figures inc. care home deaths). Belgium is well-known to count differently leading to artificially high numbers, & hence, false comparisons.

[Nigel R]

andyh, Belgium counts the same as the UK now. i.e. all C19 related deaths, care homes, hospital and community. I believe (happy to be corrected). UK historic numbers were also all adjusted recently; websites showing statistics or graphs tend to have this updated UK data.

Other EU countries reporting only hospital deaths, e.g. Spain and Italy. Their true numbers likely exceed the UK.

In terms of daily deaths per million head of population, Belgium peaked at about double what the UK appears to have done.

Comparisons are very difficult. Italy's Lombardy region was like a separate epidemic to the rest of the country; the regional death rate was horrendous, presumably owing to the hospitals being totally overwhelmed. vs, for instance, UK having a more evenly spread infection and hospitalisation just about seemed to squeak through this initial peak without going far over capacity in any one area.

We'll only know what the true human cost of this thing is when it is either vaccinated and effectively stopped, or in many years it becomes endemic like other endemic flu / coronavirus type infections.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by andyh on 12/05/2020 13:29:33:

Posted by Gary52 on 12/05/2020 13:17:46:

It is easy for some people to use the forum for politically motivated (often ill informed and conspiracy based) rants ...

... 48,000 dead to get anywhere near the death rate of Belgium , the home of the EU. Trying to mislead with false comparisons is self-serving at the very least.

we're at 40k dead now (latest ONS figures inc. care home deaths). Belgium is well-known to count differently leading to artificially high numbers, & hence, false comparisons.

As a matter of fact, the Covid-19 excess death rate (the true death rate) in the UK currently stands at 50,979.

Source

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjHtffQsq7pAhWORxUIHeSaBfkQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F40fc8904-febf-4a66-8d1c-ea3e48bbc034&usg=AOvVaw0UWf_QESbRssbM7hH76Rst

 

Edited By Gary Manuel on 12/05/2020 14:14:45

[Erfolg]

The two sets of figures that are indicative of extent of the consequences of the virus, according to experts.

1. Deaths per 100k
2. normal (historic) for the time period deaths and those actually recorded.

Those who know, then point to other factors, which will have affected the figures, the age profile of a population, population density. Both Italy and Spain have a proportion of their population which are older, than Eire.

The assessment is full of caveats.

At present the UK appears to be about average on these measures. In the case of the USA, they appear then to be amongst the best.

Yes, there are some who will not let reality get in the way of their political ethos.

[Tim Kearsley]

If this topic goes much further off course and into politics again, hopefully the mods will close it.

Tim.

[i12fly]

I don't care what anybody says, too much mud being thrown, lots of biased half truths. We're all grown up, should respect other people's views even if they are wrong and decide for ourselves. My decision is I'm staying on lockdown (as much as that is possible) until the mud clears and see how big the next wave is. I might get it, I might not, I might have had it but don't know. But it is my decision.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by i12fly on 12/05/2020 15:40:42:

I don't care what anybody says, too much mud being thrown, lots of biased half truths. We're all grown up, should respect other people's views even if they are wrong and decide for ourselves. My decision is I'm staying on lockdown (as much as that is possible) until the mud clears and see how big the next wave is. I might get it, I might not, I might have had it but don't know. But it is my decision.

Bang on i12fly!

Make your own mind up based on the facts.