Give a thought to practical colour schemes for trainers

[toto]

 

I'd like to share an idea that came over me today when on my first flying lesson.

 

One of my main concerns / apprehensions prior to taking to the air was being able to identify the attitude /. It also helped you to de ide orientation of the model from a distance. Now .... the trainer that I was allocated, whilst perfectly fit and safe for purpose had taken it's fair share of knocks. The overall covering had been patched on a few occasions and some of the more recent substantial patches areas had been decorated in a florescent hi viz orange on thr top side of the wing.

 

Whilst not maybe the most aesthetically flattering choice, one advantage it had was visability. ....... but how could you see it if it was on the top of the high wing section I here you say ........ well ...... that's my very point, if you could see it, you knew you were either flying upside down ( which I didn't ) or you could gauge to what degree you were banking into a bend. It also aided in levelling out.

 

Now ..... I am not suggesting that you all go out and cover your babies in florescent orange film but for beginners and especially shared club trainers who's purpose is more functional, perhaps " livery " should be considered more. 

 

 

Just a thought

 

Toto

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

A thinking modelflyer, you've a good chance of making it.

Plenty discussions been had on here Toto, on how to do a colour scheme that helps see what's happening in the blue yonder. 👍

[Simon Chaddock]

toto

There are two issues once distance becomes an issue.

1. Can you see the plane?

2. Can you unravel what you see to ascertain its orientation.

 

Obviously lots of dayglow would help with 1. but would make 2. rather more difficult. So they are contradicting features.

The sky, even clouds, are bright so an apparently strong colours like red can get 'lost' at distance.

I have found that large area of a dark colour stand out best, at least to me.

I have a plane that has black wing, tail plane undersides as well as the fin. Everything else is white. Viewed from beneath the black wing and tail make 'direction' orientation fairly easy and if you can see white on the wings you know it is banked at a steeper angle than your eye line.

Somewhat surprisingly I find having plenty of white gives a strong contrast with the grass making the final touch down judgment a bit easier, rather important with a belly lander.😉        

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Keep it simple, over here in the blue sky,  a white bottom with a big wide contrasting stripe on the bottom of one of the wings is enough,

 the light won't be on it, so a good red, dark blue or black will do.

 

 

 Ps, the front of the wing wouldn't go a miss with some dayglo red for landing.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Paul De Tourtoulon
ps

[Jon H]

Ultimately orientation is something you need to learn and it takes practice. When it comes to colour, much has been said over the years but if you look at full size practice the RAF worked out that black was the easiest to see, but then again they were not so worried about orientation from the ground. 

 

All i can say for sure is that warbirds can be a problem especially if nicely painted with a matt finish. Simply put, camouflage works! The flat blue/grey that my La7 is painted, melts into nothing against a summer sky. My Seafury and Hurricane do the same from time to time as well. On more than one occasion per circuit flying the La7 i end up flying just a red cowl and spinner as the rest of the model just melts away. With the sea fury, i get to fly two red dots on the wings from the roundels and the yellow spinner. The first time it happened it caught me off guard. ow i dont worry as i know its coming and just keep flying, although it takes substantial concentration during those seconds of invisibility. 

 

Although clear enough in this photo, that colour at a distance is not my friend! 

 

[Phil Green]

[Cuban8]

Some modellers are better at 'seeing' than others. Nothing to do with visual acuity, 20:20 vision and all that but some are just better at orientation than others, so I've found over the years.

A few beginners that I've taught in the past seemed to have a natural gift regarding orientation/disorientation and never had to give that much concentration to it compared to others. A few never really got the hang of it and while being safe flyers, had their scope for advancement held back. I remember one particular chap who was a very senior software engineer in his day job, telling me that he couldn't quickly differentiate between his left and right hands! Made things interesting I can tell you.

Obviously, practice helps - a bit like parallel parking or reversing a car - most of us manage ok, some are very accurate and a few never really master it at all, hence the sight of vehicles left at crazy angles and jammed up next to others in public carparks😠

Equally, the divots and wreckage to be found on our flying fields............

Just my opinion, but for sports aircraft a relatively simple scheme with well contrasting upper and lower colours on the wing works well when trying to get to grips with orientation. I found that bright red on the top and black on the bottom was good. Colour choice on the fuz and other surfaces is less important. A high viz chevron is a good idea on the top of the wing no matter what.  Multi colours, randomly scattered over the airframe aren't too helpful if one is struggling - think dazzle camouflage on ships!

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cuban8

[Neil James]

I’ve found the addition of some fluorescent trim extremely useful. All my gliders now carry orange wing tips on the upper surface for general orientation, and a strip wrapped around the leading edge which helps a lot when the model is nose on, especially during landings. light on top and dark underneath with some contrasting stripes seems to be a good general style.

BTW the RAF did trials for a colour scheme to improve visibility of their training aircraft which is why they are now painted all black!

[David Davis]

I used to have a Flair Hooligan pictured below. The underside was in Flourescent Red and the top was finished in orange, white and yellow spanwise stripes. For me it was the white stripe which showed up well against most skies.

 

The reason I'm holding some twigs is because the model had hit the upper branches of the trees in the background but the trusty Irvine 46 just kept on going and I executed a good landing trailing the twigs from the undercarriage! Depth perception is not my strong suit!

 

It's one model I regret selling.        

[Geoff S]

I remember being in the LMS where I bought the kit to build my trainer (a box of balsa and a plan - no ARTFs then!) and asking Wayland, the helpful shopkeeper, what colour covering was likely to be the most distinctive in the air.  Another customer (a flyer I got to know later) chipped in. "It don't matter, youth (I was 50+). They all look black in the sky."  Whilst that's not entirely true, it is to some extent, though perhaps some fluorescent patches can help.

[Andy Stephenson]

The scheme I find easiest to see is to have longitudinal stripes on the top of the wing and for and aft stripes on the bottom. They have to be bold and wide enough so they don't blur into one colour at distance.

[Allan Bennett]

I can relate to the suggestion that black is the most visible, having used that colour for my Flair Pulsar many many years ago, with silver sunburst on the top of the upper wing.  But it doesn't really help with orientation and, in my view, once the model is far enough away that orientation is an issue, contrasting colour patches or stripes don't help much either because they can't be seen in most weather conditons.  So keeping it close enough to see is the first thing then, if orientation is lost, watching its reaction to control inputs should indicate which way round or up it is. 

[Cuban8]

1 hour ago, Allan Bennett said:

I can relate to the suggestion that black is the most visible, having used that colour for my Flair Pulsar many many years ago, with silver sunburst on the top of the upper wing.  But it doesn't really help with orientation and, in my view, once the model is far enough away that orientation is an issue, contrasting colour patches or stripes don't help much either because they can't be seen in most weather conditons.  So keeping it close enough to see is the first thing then, if orientation is lost, watching its reaction to control inputs should indicate which way round or up it is. 

So important to drum into new flyers to not allow the model to get too far away, particlarly a steady drift down wind. I think that as a model gets further away from the beginner it appears to them to react more slowly due to the increased distance, they feel more comfortable until it all of a sudden it's too far away to see and then big trouble. Flying tighter circuits does have the pilot 'on the sticks more' and increases workload but better that than trying to fly a dot in the distance.

A big reason I'm not in favour of trying to teach oneself if one doesn't really have to........... as an experiment when on a buddy box, I've allowed a trainee to fly more or less where they want rather than giving a constant reminder to stick in a circuit of sorts. Inevitably, the model will drift away unnoticed by the beginner who hasn't fully developed the ability to keep stock of the model's position in relation to landmarks - a sort of tunnel vision. Something that old hands take for granted by using periferal vision and awareness of their surroundings without really thinking about it.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cuban8

[Phil Green]

One tip is not to panic if you fly across the sun or realise you're disoriented, its most unlikely that in that very moment the model has flipped inverted or pulled a 180. Chances are if you give it a second or two it will reappear on the same trajectory and you'll lock on again.  Avoiding the sun is obvious advice but when slope soaring in a westerly it can happen several times in one flight, if its unavoidable it helps to close one eye until the other one decides the model is in the clear.  If there are others standing close by, tell them, quickly but not in panic tones,  just to borrow another pair of eyes. 

An eye test is a good idea too, its most unusual for our demographic not to need spex or lasering  🧐

/2p

Cheers

Phil

 

 

 

[Cuban8]

16 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

One tip is not to panic if you fly across the sun or realise you're disoriented, its most unlikely that in that very moment the model has flipped inverted or pulled a 180. Chances are if you give it a second or two it will reappear on the same trajectory and you'll lock on again.  Avoiding the sun is obvious advice but when slope soaring in a westerly it can happen several times in one flight, if its unavoidable it helps to close one eye until the other one decides the model is in the clear.  If there are others standing close by, tell them, quickly but not in panic tones,  just to borrow another pair of eyes. 

An eye test is a good idea too, its most unusual for our demographic not to need spex or lasering  🧐

/2p

Cheers

Phil

 

 

 

Good points Phil.

No excuse for having poor uncorrected vision these days with on-line opticians charging a fraction of the high street ones, although to be fair they have pulled their socks up recently and have become a bit more reasonable on price.

I have a simple prescription for short sight and the last pair of specs I had on-line came with all the goodies for thirty quid delivered.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cuban8

[Christopher Wolfe]

44 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

One tip is not to panic if you fly across the sun or realise you're disoriented, its most unlikely that in that very moment the model has flipped inverted or pulled a 180. Chances are if you give it a second or two it will reappear on the same trajectory and you'll lock on again.  Avoiding the sun is obvious advice but when slope soaring in a westerly it can happen several times in one flight, if its unavoidable it helps to close one eye until the other one decides the model is in the clear.  If there are others standing close by, tell them, quickly but not in panic tones,  just to borrow another pair of eyes. 

An eye test is a good idea too, its most unusual for our demographic not to need spex or lasering  🧐

/2p

Cheers

Phil

When I was a young buck and flying pylon racers it was not unusual to attach a sunscreen/visor to one's tx aerial to mitigate the glare of the sun.

Maybe not so easy nowadays with the tiny 2.4 GHz tx antennae.

 

Regarding spectacles, this is an insightful read Spectacle Lens's

 

Chris

 

44 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

 

 

 

[Chris Walby]

Some say something like sunrise or this helps  on the upper wing as it orientates and shows the sense of direction. 

 

I like a very "fat" version of invasion stripes, say 3 black max to keep them nice and wide.

 

I had a TN Ta154 with this sort of colour scheme and all I can say is that with a winter sky and a backdrop of trees is was very effective..even at high bank angles as you end up looking at most of the wing, but its outline is disrupted by the pattern...funny that!

 

Worth pointing out that sometimes you might think models are easy to see when in fact they turn out to be the complete opposite. Take the Extra Slim Twin...should be real easy and a I had not covered with translucent and I like yellow so why not.

 

Just taking off, landing and flying around its great, but start doing what its designed to do (nice in flying field, low altitude aerobatics) on a nice sunny day and its an absolute pig. As I pitch up to vertical, stick a roll in and stall turn I get to see through various translucent panels that are symmetrical with other parts and no major single visual keys to work out orientation. In short it should be nice to fly, but the reality is the opposite. I'll recover the wings one day (yellow top and black/white stripes underside) and that will sort the problem!   

 

 

 

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Contrast that with the colour scheme I designed for good orientation on the same model:

 

 

 

Video here.

 

I've always found a good splash of white on the top surface shows up better than "high vis" colours in indifferent light.  As we normally see the underside in shadow, dark colours seem to enhance the outline - of course,the exact opposite of WW2 camouflage colour schemes...

[toto]

Many thanks for all the responses. I'm having to read through them again as there is such a varied approach. Not a bad thing as the opinions are given within different contexts and good food for thought.

 

I think I will think of the various conditions suggested above when using my club trainer next and try and pay particular attention to the various scenarios I find myself in with particular reference to distance, light and weather. I think they seem to be the main drivers that make the biggest step changes.

 

I'm sure the topic will be one which is healthily debated for some time to come.

 

Many thanks

 

Toto

[Peter Jenkins]

The greatest aid to orientation is to stay ahead of the aircraft - difficult when you are new to it I know but thinking about what you want to fly before you get airborne is also very helpful in avoiding disorientation.  

 

Take a look at the colour of some aerobatic aircraft and you will see that there is some pretty contrasting patterns so you can distinguish between top and bottom very quickly!  If you click on this link and then click on some of the thumbnails, you'll see what I mean.  

 

Interestingly, a blue sky is often the worst as regards not being able to see the aircraft as well as when there are nice fluffy cumulus clouds.  I had a student who always lost sight of the aircraft when it was in the blue bit of the sky!

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That's very true Peter.  I've often witnessed a group of experienced pilots watching another flying a feisty looking model and saying that they don't know how the pilot can keep oriented...and the next conversation involves the same comments about one of the original group flying their own model...

 

While you're the one inputting the control inputs your connection with the model is immediate and a massive aid to orientation.

[Jon H]

On 26/03/2023 at 13:19, Cuban8 said:

So important to drum into new flyers to not allow the model to get too far away

 

I always found there were two types to students. Type 1 wanted to do circuits barely twice the length of the model with 90 degree turns while g testing the main spar, all while flat out. Type 2 was happy to fly to narnia and do nothing about it! There's a nice middle ground of far enough away to not rush the circuit and close enough to be able to see it. 

[toto]

Must admit, I'm happy to keep it quite close to enable me to see it better whilst I get the confidence that what I am trying to transmit through the sticks is whats actuall reaching the receiver.

 

I think for newbies, once they get to the stage where they are a bit more at home with their transmitter to recover commands then distance will follow having the confidence that they are actually in control and can recognise the models behaviour from a distance. ...... if that makes sense. 

 

I do like to see the action closer at hand generally as you can appreciate every twist and turn made. Just looks great.

 

Toto

[Jon H]

If you ever decide to fly WWII fighters they need lots of sky. Bank and yank looks all wrong so let them run 🙂 Admittedly, flying them so far away contributes to the camouflage issue but still. Cant have it both ways!

[Simon Chaddock]

toto

Whilst you are learning plane speed is your prime enemy, it just does not give you time to think what to do. Eventually you will develop the necessary eye/hand reaction memory so you don't have to think at all.

By the same token avoid flying low for effect until you are truly experienced. Much better to get used to 'seeing' your plane at distance by using altitude. It will give you far longer to sort things out if anything does go wrong.