My current dilemma ( probably one of many ).

[PDB]

As others have mentioned when I started RC flying last year I had an idea of what direction I would like to go which was large scale.

 

That has now completely changed having since developed an interest in aerobatics and I'm now finding limitations with my Boomerang when practicing B cert manoeuvres. As a result I've purchased my follow on model which is more suitable for learning aerobatics with and my Boomerang will be retired to a winter/bad weather hack.

 

I won't get rid of the Boomerang as it is great fun to chuck around the sky and handles high winds well, but I wouldn't buy another high wing trainer.

 

Be interesting to see where your interest eventually develops in our very wide ranging hobby. 👍

[toto]

Sounds like you have purchased wisely then.

 

I must admit aerobatics dont do it for me at all. I can watch others do this but my heart ( at the moment ) is more ordinary everyday flying. The most ambitious ideas in my mind is being able to do loops and rolls. I'd be quite happy with that.

 

Most of my purchases to date would support that function. The only purchase that I've made that , in my mind, was a little out of the ordinary for me is the edge 540. I just loved the look and colour scheme of it. My thought was whilst it's more for aerobatic flying, there is nothing wrong with " soft tuning " it for everyday tamer duties .... it just looks good in the air.

 

Otherwise .... trainers, 2 x bi planes a couple of twins and some very ordinary others .... Cessna turbo skylane ..... space Walker. ..... I dont see any jets or jumbos in there, neither is there warbirds etc. I thought I was being reasonably sensible .... .... obviously not.

 

 

And ..... as I keep trying to stress .... they will all have their place when I am suitably competent to fly them.

 

Toto

Edited July 12, 2023 by toto

[Nigel Heather]

Must admit I don't really understand why you have two high wing trainers - other than having a spare if you total the first one.

 

I'd fly the death out of the Arising Star and if you don't crash it I reckon you could skip the Phoenix and go to the Tiger 60.

 

BTW based on Real Flight only, the Tiger 60 seems to be a really nice aircraft - flies really nicely - would like one myself.

 

Not sure about electric power - what batteries would it need - guessing it will need quite a powerful, expensive, heavy setup.

[toto]

Hi Nigel,

 

I haven't tried it on real flight yet nor have I looked into the electric setup requirements as yet. Still to do that. Depending on how onerous that turns out to be, it could change to a glow or petrol setup. To be determined.

 

As far as the two high wing trainers go.... it was just a spare to help keep me in the air. Also I wanted to give an electric model a go as well to see the difference in performance and overall experience. The electric generally being more convenient to grab and go and get into the air.

 

One trainer is generally enough but once I can go solo I can take the two and just pick and choose and as many suggest ........ fly them to death ..... possibly quite literally. If one comes down ....... out comes the other. It does not mean an abrupt end to the flying season.

 

Toto

[aidan mcatamney]

9 hours ago, toto said:

Hi Nigel,

 

I haven't tried it on real flight yet nor have I looked into the electric setup requirements as yet. Still to do that. Depending on how onerous that turns out to be, it could change to a glow or petrol setup. To be determined.

 

As far as the two high wing trainers go.... it was just a spare to help keep me in the air. Also I wanted to give an electric model a go as well to see the difference in performance and overall experience. The electric generally being more convenient to grab and go and get into the air.

 

One trainer is generally enough but once I can go solo I can take the two and just pick and choose and as many suggest ........ fly them to death ..... possibly quite literally. If one comes down ....... out comes the other. It does not mean an abrupt end to the flying season.

 

Toto

Hi Toto, if you decide to go electric with your Tiger 60, then I would recommend an Eflite power 60 motor with a 6s 5000 lipo.  That is the power set up I have on my 60 size Meridian.  It will give the Tiger 60 ample power and you would be very content with that.  I also have with it a 90amp speed controller.    This has never let me down.   

[toto]

Hi Aidan ..... I have these in stock 😄

 

 

and ....

 

 

what do you think about compatibility of these.

 

I'm happy to run with what you recommended but as I have these ( bought for another project which can wait ) if they are up to the job .... I may as well use them and replace them for my other model when the time draws nearer.

 

Feel very free to be honest, I'm not trying to avoid buying something that would be more suitable.

 

Thanks for your input kind Sir ..... another nice model     you are the reincarnation of the devil himself. I have to use that kind of language as I cant swear on here and I'm sure the spelling of what I wanted to write would have been a lot easier.

 

cheers

 

toto 

[GrumpyGnome]

9 hours ago, toto said:

....The electric generally being more convenient to grab and go and get into the air.......

 

Not wishing to start a debate, but ......

 

it's pretty much even-stevens as to which is convenient to grab and go in my experience. Less mess to clean afterwards with electric of course, and they're generally less noisy so can be flown at anti social times..... but I just need to charge a NiMh for my ic rx, one LiPo for the starter, and a glow stick, and off I go for lots and lots of air time......... or I can charge multiple LiPos and have one 6 minute flight with each.

 

Tbh, in the last 18 months, my use of electric has decreased hugely, and ic increased correspondingly.  In the previous 15 years or so, it was almost entirely electric....

[toto]

Hi GrumpyGnome .... 

 

I can see the argument no problem, and ..... agree to a point , however ... as we both know , we could bat these arguments back and forth forever without there ever being an agreed point ...😄

 

The thing that moves me towards electric in this case is ... the fact that I have potential suitable stuff in stock ready to use.

 

At this moment in time .... I have 3 definite trainers and one .... not so much a trainer.

 

The Arising Star .... high wing ..... glow powered

The Domino ...... High wing ..... going electric

The Tiger 60 ..... Low wing ...... Potentail electric ( as I dont currently have a suitable IC option ) without buying one

The Phoenix Space walker ..... Low wing ..... Force .46 engine in stock

 

So ..... I have a mix of hi wing and low wing ..... both with electric or glow options ..... I know that it did not have to be the case but my idea is that I want to find out where my heart lies so that some of the more exotic models may be powered appropriately. Some will be electric anyway as I have further electric motors and ESC's already purchased they will be used.

 

I'm not disregarding your thoughts ..... i agree ..... but my mind keeps seeing the for's and against's. I have a load of 6s batteries which will keep various models flying for lite years so I may as well get my use from them. 

 

its just a matter of time before someone comes on telling me the benefits of electric ...... 😄

 

cheers

 

toto

[aidan mcatamney]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Hi Aidan ..... I have these in stock 😄

 

 

and ....

 

 

what do you think about compatibility of these.

 

I'm happy to run with what you recommended but as I have these ( bought for another project which can wait ) if they are up to the job .... I may as well use them and replace them for my other model when the time draws nearer.

 

Feel very free to be honest, I'm not trying to avoid buying something that would be more suitable.

 

Thanks for your input kind Sir ..... another nice model     you are the reincarnation of the devil himself. I have to use that kind of language as I cant swear on here and I'm sure the spelling of what I wanted to write would have been a lot easier.

 

cheers

 

toto 

Hi Toto, that 100 amp speed controller should be fine,  but whatever brand of motor you are getting just be sure to check out the compatibility first.  As someone who mostly flys internal combustion two and four stroke engines over the last 37 years, my knowledge of electric flight is limited,  but I know enough to get me flying.   My first electric model was a Multiplex Easystar that I bought in 2003 followed then by a Twinstar in the same year.  Electric has its advantages of being handy,  but as another man rightly said, you get about 6 to 7 minute flights on a 6s 5000 lipo,  whereas with a glow engine plane you get double that in flight.   When you land , you just fuel up again checking your receiver battery first and off you go.   Providing you have plenty of 6s lipo batteries,  then it's not a problem.  My multi charger can charge two lipos at a time.   I have to say Toto, that my Meridian flys beautifully with the power 60 motor along with a 15x8 electric prop.  I hope this was of help to you.   Kind regards Aidan 

[Philip Lewis 3]

The ESC is fine and the motor will work OK although a little on the large side but it's the right KV, so, provided you can either put up with the additional weight or even need it to balance out the plane it's OK.

 

By the way a 5065 motor means 50mm diameter can (the bit that goes round) which is 65 mm long.

 

Optimally I would be looking to use something like a 5045 in this size plane with either 16X10 Prop or 17X8, anything smaller that that is OK.

 

An E Flite power 60 motor is the quivalent of a 60 two stroke glow by the way.

[paul devereux]

On 12/07/2023 at 10:55, Cuban8 said:

First class advice from everyone. Just a few random thoughts......don't get too taken with stability, easy to fly etc. Once you've got a few dozen flights on your high wing trainer and can make it consistently do your bidding rather than the other way around, you'll be surprised just what else you'll be able to fly with little difficulty.

 

This is so true. Once you have 'learnt to fly', you won't need more trainers of different sorts. It is the actual learning to fly that is the problem, not the plane.  Took my Wot 4 out  this morning- it was blustery- in fact my take off was vertical-put in down immediately just to keep it in the air- once it was up a few hundred feet I was able to fly it. Apart from a few judders, I could fly as normal.  And in fact, landing in windy weather is quite  interesting.

[GrumpyGnome]

@toto the number of cells isn't key to flight time in electric flight, it's the capacity.  So, all things being equal (which of course is never the case!) a 2S 5000 pack would give the same flight time as a 6S 5000 pack. 

 

But the 6S would, of course, be capable of delivering much more 'oomph' - which could be used to require less throttle of course, increasing duration..... but the pack and components would be larger and heavier, leading to a faster flying plane, etc. etc.

 

Have a look here to add yet more information to an over-loaded brain :-)

 

Beginner to Electric flight ? - WELCOME :-) - Electric Flight for Beginners - RCM&E Home of Model Flying Forums

 

GG

 

[toto]

Hi GrumpyGnome,

 

Thanks for both the initial information above .... seems relatively 3awy to understand that. It's just a case of keeping it in my head which is an " over time " task. 

 

The link, whilst not light reading is something that could be a regular " go to " as it does appear to get to the crux of the matter generally maybe leaving some specifics to look into. I just need to remember where it is when I am looking for it. 

 

Maybe I should create myself a bit of a crib sheet and keep it in an A4 folder for reference when I need to gauge what I whoule be considering for each model. A sort of ready reckoner.

 

Dont be surprised if you still see some questions on this topic arising though as even if I can get my head around how to calculate the size and type of equipment required, i'e probably still run it past folks to see my theory was correct. .... belt and braces. 

 

Many thanks for posting the above up.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[toto]

Philip,

 

Thanks for your explanation. I suppose what I really need to work out ( using some of the above technical calculations ) is if the 450kV part of the specification mewtw the requirement. 

 

I'm not looking at assembling this imminently as I have the Arising Star to complete and commission into the air so I probably have a couple of weeks to play with the calculations before committing to any particular wet up. However, I think it's fair to say that I will be going 3l3ctric with the Tiger 60. ( dont hold your breath though ). 

 

Watch this space ..... I am easily influenced and can change my mind without too much encouragement. 

 

Toto

[Simon Chaddock]

Just to be a bit contentious I have an electric plane than can easily fly for 3 hours power on all the time and it uses just a 3800mAh 2s! It only requires 14W to maintain level flight. Calm(ish) weather yes but it is most definitely not an indoor model and is ok for modest aerobatics. It just finding the right combination of aerodynamics and weight.😉 

[toto]

Hi Aidan .....

 

The electric bereus the Glow / petrol conundrum will rage forever I think. It is a perplexing point. 

 

The trade off between longer flights to a more convenient, cleaner and in my view faster to get going point of view is probably unsolvable.  the further trade off between the charging and maintainence of Lipo batteries and issues of storing and transporting combustible fuel types is another no win situation.

 

The fact that I have made life a little more perplexing by having both probably doesn't help but it's something I volunteered for. Whatever happens, I need to use what I have at hand so if the glow engines do not go in one particular model ( in favour of electric ) they will have to be used in another. It's more the case of which suits or us more appealing in which model.

 

Too many choices syndrome I think.  however, I am always more than happy to listen to everyones opinion even if it tinkers with my brain  but I can only go with one. So no offence if any bodies particular advice ie not heeded. There is simply too many conflicting opinions to be a be able to make a straight forward decision. .... the nature of the beast,

 

I continue with my quest oh great one. 

 

Toto

[toto]

Come on Simon ..... details ..... you have us all curious now ..... 

 

Toto

[toto]

Hi Paul,

 

Good to hear that not only are you progressing your flying but managing to cope with one of our worst enemies ...... the wind. Sounds like you are coming on leaps and bounds.

 

As far as multiple trainers go, the duties of these planes will go far beyond learning the initial ropes. If they survive the initial stages, I intend to continually revisit theee models as test pieces 2hen learning wome of the trickier move for the first time qs well.

 

So ..... learn to fly to solo status ...... using trainers ...... progress beyond solo towards my A cert ...... using trainere until a decent level of competency " beyond solo achievement " has been reached and it maybe considered safe to introduce some more " exotic " models ..... maybe  my Cessna....or a twin otter or something ..... but as I want to try out a  new riskier manouvre or technique ...... the trainere come back out.

 

There ie nothing to say that just because you get passed the initial training stages that the humble trainer needed to be retired. You are never too good to have the humiliation of reverting back to any particular model ..... it's not a step backwards and just as much run. I'll make good use of my trainers.

 

It's also good to go to the field with more than one model if you can .... gremlins can appear at any time and can end a potential days flying. I see it at our club regularly. Most of our members travel with at least two or three models. I get that whilst training that should not be a requirement but at least having two is no bad thing ..... in my mind anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

 

[Ron Gray]

No matter how proficient you become at flying it’s always good to go back to basics and carry out the A schedule ( on a fairly regular basis), for which your trainer ‘hack’ is ideal. Trying to get the 2 circles of the flat 8 the same plus a good central crossover whilst maintaining the same height is good exercise, especially if there’s a crosswind. So reverting back to your trainer is a good plan Toto.

[leccyflyer]

14 hours ago, toto said:

Hi Aidan ..... I have these in stock 😄

 

 

and ....

 

 

what do you think about compatibility of these.

 

I'm happy to run with what you recommended but as I have these ( bought for another project which can wait ) if they are up to the job .... I may as well use them and replace them for my other model when the time draws nearer.

 

Feel very free to be honest, I'm not trying to avoid buying something that would be more suitable.

 

Thanks for your input kind Sir ..... another nice model     you are the reincarnation of the devil himself. I have to use that kind of language as I cant swear on here and I'm sure the spelling of what I wanted to write would have been a lot easier.

 

cheers

 

toto 

Wow - that's a serious power train for a first electric model. I think I'd be leaving that for some way down the line, after you have a few electric models under your belt and have your operating procedures well sorted out.

[Learner]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

Wow - that's a serious power train for a first electric model. I think I'd be leaving that for some way down the line, after you have a few electric models under your belt and have your operating procedures well sorted out.

I think he's well sorted for the next 20 years or so😃

[toto]

Hi Learner / leccyflyer

 

It wasn't originally bought for this. However ..... I have it sitting there. If there is a more suitable... sedate match ..... suggest away, just so long as it's not under powered. I dont really want to be fighting against something that is grossly over powered either.

 

The above suggested does have other homes that would be more suitable.

 

Suggest away.

 

Toto

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Quote from Toto,

The electric bereus the Glow / petrol conundrum will rage forever I think. It is a perplexing point. 

 

That's only a start, how to run them in, starting with glow, what props, on the bench, Plane or in the air, what glow plug and to finish off what make of fuel with what oil.

 

Opps forgot, 2/4 stroke and what make,,,

 

 It's even worse with petrol 😅

 

Nice to read all your posts Toto, 😇

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Paul De Tourtoulon
opps

[Kim Taylor]

1 hour ago, toto said:

Hi Learner / leccyflyer

 

It wasn't originally bought for this. However ..... I have it sitting there. If there is a more suitable... sedate match ..... suggest away, just so long as it's not under powered. I dont really want to be fighting against something that is grossly over powered either.

 

The above suggested does have other homes that would be more suitable.

 

Suggest away.

 

Toto

That's the beauty of electrics - as long as the motor is adequately sized (or larger than required) then you just prop it to the power you need to fly the 'plane.

So for instance, lets say your motor will produce 1500W on a 15x8 prop whilst drawing 70A, but the model only needs 900w, just go down on the prop to a 12x8 and see what you're drawing (ecalc can give you a ballpark figure to make life easier, but I've never used it). Play with the prop size, until you get the power you require, measure the amps and be amazed at how few you're drawing. Your 6s 5000 will now last twice as long as when you were pushing the motor to its' limit and everything will be nice and lightly loaded, cool running, etc.

In simple terms, the prop is what governs the power being produced, the motor delivers exactly what the prop will absorb at its running speed (governed by the kV rating).

All of the above numbers are indicative, not real - you would need to test (or run ecalc) yourself to tune your own setup.

Kim

[toto]

Thanks for the above .... I am going to try and work out from the above the correct size of motor, esc and prop for the domino. Equivalent of a .46 ic engine. Funny how they give you the engine size on the box but dont do the conversion to the equivalent electric. 

 

Anyway.... time to try and get the old grey matter working.

 

Cheers

 

Toto