Speed limits in Wales

[Phil Green]

1 hour ago, Graham Bowers said:

It'll probably boil down to knowing the engine rpm at 20 mph in the gear one uses for 20 mph. Probably second on mine.

 

my two-strokes, you're still slipping the clutch in first at 20mph...  🙂

[Nigel R]

Does anyone on this discussion have any genuine, well researched figures of emissions per mile at various speeds across a representative slice ofthe entire fleet of the UK? If not the emissions part of this discussion is no more than hot air.

 

2 hours ago, Phil Green said:

it will need such concentration on the throttle, brakes and speedo that there simply wont be enough time left to watch out for peasants

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you'll be so bad at riding your bike at 20mph, you'll crash into a pedestrian? 🙄

[Cuban8]

4 minutes ago, Nigel R said:

Does anyone on this discussion have any genuine, well researched figures of emissions per mile at various speeds across a representative slice ofthe entire fleet of the UK? If not the emissions part of this discussion is no more than hot air.

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you'll be so bad at riding your bike at 20mph, you'll crash into a pedestrian? 🙄

As a biker myself, the biggest risk is being involved in a SMIDSY incident (sorry mate, I didn't see you). Whenever I approach a vehicle waiting to turn into the main road I'm on, I always roll off throttle and be prepared to stop. Not infallible of course, but even a few mph slower might just make the difference. Same with pedestrians waiting to cross, motorcycles seem to be invisible to many of them.

I was waiting to turn right from a side road when in my car a while back and I very nearly caused a SMIDSY myself. A busy main road, parked cars, pedestrians nipping in and out of gaps to cross the road, in fact lots of distracting visual 'noise' going on. A clear gap both ways - good to go - one last glance to the right and........a ruddy Deliveroo scooter that I almost missed and would have had in my side door if I hadn't had one last life saver glance (motor bike training) except it was Mr Deliveroo who got away with it this time.

[Learner]

Just been to town some 20 mostly 30 limits

20 in 2nd, 30 in 3rd both very similar at  around 1900 revs

20 in 3rd 1200 30 in 4th 1300 revs car not as happy but driveable.

1500 diesel so quite torquey low down.

All cars/bikes will be different.

First time I've kept to the limit 😈 it is painfully slow!

[MattyB]

55 minutes ago, Nigel R said:

Does anyone on this discussion have any genuine, well researched figures of emissions per mile at various speeds across a representative slice ofthe entire fleet of the UK? If not the emissions part of this discussion is no more than hot air.

It’s nowhere near as comprehensive as you are requesting, but the Welsh government’s results from pilot areas where they tried this does make interesting reading. Most of it is a case study in choosing metrics very carefully to support the change you’ve already decided to make 😉, but interestingly they were not able to demonstrate any improvement in air quality in these zones at all.

 

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2023-03/Phase-1-20mph-Interim-Monitoring-Report_Final-publish-17-March.pdf

Edited September 25, 2023 by MattyB

[MattyB]

Oh, hello… @Nigel R, if you are struggling to sleep later tonight, I think I’ve found you a cure…!

 

https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/CPC_Speed_Band_17092019_v2.pdf

[David P Williams]

It's also interesting that when the various advocates of 20 limits quote number of deaths and injuries in 30 limit areas they don't seem to be broken down by how fast the vehicle was actually travelling (they probably don't really know). I suspect that many were travelling over 30, and the same people will travel at over 20 too.

I'm in a rural area just on the English side of the Welsh border. There are lots of villages with 30 limits connected by A and B roads with 60 limits. The standard practice of many locals here seems to be to just drive everywhere at 40-45 whether on the open road or through a village. The villages are quiet  so they get away with it.

I bet they would do the same if the limit was 20 unless they knew there were cameras or speed humps.

[Rich Griff]

Be very careful particularly with a diesel, anti stall so can surge forward all by them selves.....in too high a gear at low revs, you have been warned.

 

[Nigel R]

26 minutes ago, MattyB said:

but interestingly they were not able to demonstrate any improvement in air quality in these zones at all.

 

That's quite the kicker.

 

I shall sleep well tonight!

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Stop whinging, over here a lot of towns have the 30 klm/h limits ( 18.6 miles /h ) and locally the speed bumps ( 30% are illegal) you can't go over them at more than 15 klm/h ( 9mph )ant silly so-called run-offs for rain are a death trap on 2 wheels.( photo)

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

They should take licenses of those retired from work, would cut pollution and ease traffic as well. 😉

[MattyB]

18 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Stop whinging, over here a lot of towns have the 30 klm/h limits ( 18.6 miles /h ) and locally the speed bumps ( 30% are illegal) you can't go over them at more than 15 klm/h ( 9mph )ant silly so-called run-offs for rain are a death trap on 2 wheels.( photo)

 

On the upside that speed bump does make a marvellous little raised area for a picket line. Out with the gilets jaunes...! 😉 

[Phil Green]

2 hours ago, Nigel R said:

Are you seriously suggesting that you'll be so bad at riding your bike at 20mph, you'll crash into a pedestrian? 🙄

I'm reasonably capable, I have race trophies 🙂  What I'm saying is that all these things, negotiating bumps, keeping a 170bhp bike at a steady 20mph, these all distract you from the main activity of a biker which is observation 🙂

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Here I am looking for my next 'kill',,,😄

 

Phil I changed the gear sprocket 1 tooth less,,,

[J D 8]

50 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Stop whinging, over here a lot of towns have the 30 klm/h limits ( 18.6 miles /h ) and locally the speed bumps ( 30% are illegal) you can't go over them at more than 15 klm/h ( 9mph )ant silly so-called run-offs for rain are a death trap on 2 wheels.( photo)

 Get a Citroen 2CV, would ride them humps no problem.  Chicken Chasers is what we used to call them.😁

[Graham Bowers]

3 hours ago, Phil Green said:

my two-strokes, you're still slipping the clutch in first at 20mph...  🙂

RG500?

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

39 minutes ago, Graham Bowers said:

RG500?

Sounds more like a 125,,,

[Don Fry]

1 hour ago, Phil Green said:

I'm reasonably capable, I have race trophies 🙂  What I'm saying is that all these things, negotiating bumps, keeping a 170bhp bike at a steady 20mph, these all distract you from the main activity of a biker which is observation 🙂

 

I accept the vast majority of my miles have been done on 4 or more wheels. I’ve ridden bikes, perhaps 250,000 miles, mine were heavy 4T shaft drive courier bikes for a commute. But, 170 hp on a bike would equate to a car driver using a pre electronic help 911 Porche for your daily comute for the daily grind to work across country roads, just before dawn in winter. Not going to have a happy end for someone.

[Graham Bowers]

2 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

They should take licenses of those retired from work, would cut pollution and ease traffic as well. 😉

What is this "work" to which you refer ?-)

[Don Fry]

3 hours ago, David P Williams said:

It's also interesting that when the various advocates of 20 limits quote number of deaths and injuries in 30 limit areas they don't seem to be broken down by how fast the vehicle was actually travelling (they probably don't really know). I suspect that many were travelling over 30, and the same people will travel at over 20 too.

I'm in a rural area just on the English side of the Welsh border. There are lots of villages with 30 limits connected by A and B roads with 60 limits. The standard practice of many locals here seems to be to just drive everywhere at 40-45 whether on the open road or through a village. The villages are quiet  so they get away with it.

I bet they would do the same if the limit was 20 unless they knew there were cameras or speed humps.

Suspect you are spot on. When I was fuzz, common conversation was “How fast were you going mate”, eyeing the skid marks, damage. Reply, “what’s the speed limit, officer”. But, getting a bit more educational, I’ve been free from paid labour for many years ( praise the Lord), and I know not the skill set of present day fuzz. But I assure you, arriving by forensic analysis, the speed before braking, and impact speed at point of impact can be ascertained to evidence standards in court. Not routine, but serious injury, death, it got done. That’s why the road stays shut for hours, despite roars of rage to reopen the track. 

[Mike T]

Like most people (I suspect) I can see the sense in limiting speeds outside schools, hospitals, high foot traffic areas, etc., particularly where houses 'front' directly on to a main road.  However, I also think that certain roads should be protected as arterial routes and that traffic should be able to travel at a reasonable pace in order that people can get from A to B.

 

The problem in Wales is one of implementation.  It's been inept in that there has not been a root and branch review of speed limits generally.  The Welsh Govt. could have 'sold' 20mph a lot better if they'd conceded higher limits elsewhere.  There are a couple of roads near me that for half a mile or more have no houses or any pedestrians to speak of which are limited to 20mph because they connect zones that are quite reasonably restricted to 20.

 

That said, I've just done a little exercise on a journey that I do weekly.  It's 52.2 mile round trip and as a result of having to do 20mph in some areas, the additional journey time incurred is by my calculation, about 2m 12s.  I'll never get that time back...

Edited September 25, 2023 by Mike T
typo

[MattyB]

20mph speed limits - I humbly predict we’ll be able to add them to this list in fairly short order…

 

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Maybe even 20mph is too fast to read the Welsh town names 1 mph would be too fast to read this silly one,

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

[Brian Cooper]

39 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Maybe even 20mph is too fast to read the Welsh town names 1 mph would be too fast to read this silly one,

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

It was probably supposed to be named something like Llandudno, but after a couple of glasses of homemade wine had anaesthetised their tongues prior to the naming ceremony, it came out a bit different.  😉

[John Lee]

13 hours ago, Mike T said:

That said, I've just done a little exercise on a journey that I do weekly.  It's 52.2 mile round trip and as a result of having to do 20mph in some areas, the additional journey time incurred is by my calculation, about 2m 12s.  I'll never get that time back...

 

and if you multiply that out by the millions of journeys being made daily how many man-years of life are being wasted and how has that been fed into the benefits equations?