Laser Appreciation Society

[Ron Gray]

@Tim, 100 or 80 for the LA?

[Tim Flyer]

@Ron . Not really sure yet as I haven't had a good look. Jon said he thinks it might fit but certainly isn't necessary . For me I already have two Laser 80s so i would rather have another 100 then I have 2 of both. Jon mentioned the extra weight would then mean probably no lead in the nose. I do like plenty of power too and I'm sure mine won't be light🙂. The power from the 80 would be more than enough though. I certainly don't really want the cylinder head poking through the bottom of the cowling and prefer it contained. It's going to be a slow winter build for me. As long as it's done in time for the format spring ground it will be fine as I won't be taking my warbirds out in the mud. It will be Wot 4 /wot4XL / Acrowot for the muddy winter field here I think. I would also be interested to hear if anybody else is putting a 100 in?

[Ron Gray]

I'm with you on no head poking through that lovely cowl, it's a definite 80 for me, but then, at the moment I don't have any Lasers! Like you, mine is going to be a winter build but we are fortunate in having a tarmac runway so mud only becomes an issue when retrieving (the bits of) an errant model. So it remains to be seen if I get it done this side of Christmas and then the 110 early in the New Year.

[Broken Prop]

Hi John

Thanks for the tip about the larger sized props. I had thought about using a 15x6 but would have been reluctant to fit the larger diameters for fear of straining the engine. I will follow your advice and experiment after the little beauty is properly run in.

Pete

[Frank Skilbeck]

After re-reading my first post, why was I surprised when I fitted my Dads old 75, last run over 10 years ago and bought in the mid 1980s, in a plane and it started on the first touch of the starter last night and ran great. Looking forward to getting in the air again tonight.

An the 61 and Flair DVII are still going well too.

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 21/06/2018 08:29:21

[Tim Flyer]

Went to the “Holy Grail” of the appreciation society yesterday (Jons new factory) with s clubmate to pick up his new 100engine. I was mighty impressed and pleased to see he is now building up a small inventory. He had a couple of gorgeous looking 300vs and a 160v plus a number of the Single cylinder engines. I must admit I was mighty tempted  and was itching for my wallet! His new factory looks great too. He showed us a well run Laser 75 from the 1980s ( not sure if it’s the one from the post above being serviced?)that can almost keep up with today’s new offerings and still runs fine! What more can you say !

Edited By Timothy Harris 1 on 21/06/2018 09:48:28

Edited By Timothy Harris 1 on 21/06/2018 09:49:34

[Frank Skilbeck]

Timothy, no not my Dad's old one, all I did was take it out of the cupboard, put it in the airframe, add fuel and away it went

[Tim Flyer]

Aha good to hear Frank so still running well. Good quality engines properly looked after go on and on 😊 Tim

Edited By Timothy Harris 1 on 21/06/2018 13:49:48

[Rocker]

What is happening at Laser .I know they have just moved to a new factory but that was over a month ago and still all there engines are all out of stock .I hope things are OK at Laser they must be the best four stroke engines out there if they are having problems it will be terrible to loose such a good product !!!!!!!!

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/08/2018 08:21:38

[Don Fry]

I have been following the prices of Lasers on EBay. They fetch serious money. A NIB 80 sold this week for three quid more than factory price. No warranty.

Might I suggest this indicates they are being sold a few quid too cheap out of the factory door.

If you could get one out of said door. Boss of Laser to note perhaps, should this land on his desk. Profit opportunity.

[Chris Walby]

IMHO

It does not surprise me the second hand prices are high bearing in mind limited production and very reliable engines.

As for waiting, Jon is doing his best, but ultimately it is not a core function of the engineering business and Laser engine parts have to fit around normal production runs.

We are lucky to have a British build engine with support just an email, phone or forum post away.

Of course the more we post, phone and email the more time Jon spends reading dealing with them...which could be spent building engines

PS Guilty of slowing Jon up more than once

[Don Fry]

Arrr, but the point was........with a slightly higher profit margin, they move a little closer said core of the business.

[Jon H]

Posted by Don Fry on 20/11/2018 06:48:08:

Arrr, but the point was........with a slightly higher profit margin, they move a little closer said core of the business.

Not if the engines are so expensive nobody can afford them.

And anyway, to artificially inflate prices like that is a con and i wont do it. All we need to do is make more of them and the problems will solve themselves.

[Bob Pendry]

Jon is right.

Lasers are already at the top end of the price range and I believe are the best in their class. However this niche market is somewhat inelastic and a price rise would probably reduce demand. The current range of engines are superb ( I have three of them ) but a price increase would probably stop me buying another new one.

Buying used is ok if you know the engine. BMFA classifieds I have always found reliable, but people buying old engines on auction sites at over inflated prices I feel should beware.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bob Pendry]

Yes Lasers ARE at the top end !

Looking at 80 4 strokes ( the most popular size for the average club flier I would think ) only OS are more expensive. You also have the competition between model shops. Look at SMC and Kings Lynn at the moment for Saito. For Laser the price is fixed.

Carry on Jon. You know the market better than us anyway.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

It's not that simple though.

Look at the SC 160 twin. It currently costs £570 from SMC (£599 RRP) - the far superior 200v I bought not too long ago cost me £500 with a gallon of fuel thrown in - and you don't even get silencers with the SC. The OS Gemini that it's copied from is well over a Grand!

With the current drop in the Pound, I suspect that we are getting a fantastic opportunity to buy a quality engine at a more than competitive price from a manufacturer more interested in supplying a quality product at a fair price than in maximising profits in the short term - if only you could find a way to get the Boss to run off the parts for you to build 'em Jon!

Top end for quality - yes, but still competitive pricewise with other quality engines. The Chinese OS clones are a little cheaper but you get what you pay for - as an example, I noticed that there was considerable dishing on the ends of the valve stems of my ASP 180 after just a few hours running and I've lost count of the number of sheared crankpins I've seen. I've even witnessed that happening on a Saito 150 - and the importer wasn't interested in any sort of warranty support as it was just over a year old although hardly run.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris Walby]

Its a free country, if you think Lasers are too expensive then don't buy any, it will leave more for the rest of us

Its very simple for me

• IMHO they are competitively priced
• I might have to wait, but if I planned better I could have bought what I want sometime ago
• Advice is available on the end of a phone, email or this forum
• Simple to operate
• Buy British

Oh I missed the most important thing....they are reliable.

Take any engine in the Laser range and build it into an ARTF or add the time it takes to balsa bash then add all the gear cost and the engine is not that large percentage of the total cost.

PS - current model I am looking at the servos and RX are more expensive than the engine and its a sizable model.

Right oh tin hat on and fire away.

[Ron Gray]

What I want from an engine is build quality, reliability, power, quality sound and good looks (!). But above all else after sales service / support. I am lucky enough to now have several in my collection and any queries I've had with any of them have been dealt with either by 'phone call or message to Jon. I would like to know what other engine manufacturer can offer this service: I was running up my nearly new 240v at the field last Friday but detected an unusual noise at low revs, strange I thought as it had been running fine the previous week. My immediate thought was that a bearing was on the way out which was strange given the newness of the engine. I sent a message to Jon on Saturday explaining the problem, he said to send it back to him to check it out, which I did. He received the engine this morning and has given me a full report on the problem which will be fixed within a couple of days.

That is what I call first class service and is the reason why I have so many of them in my collection and why I will continue to add to that collection as and when they become available.

[Jon H]

Interesting stuff here, i most certainly didnt know the ASP/SC160 was so expensive now. I will raise a few of the points here with the boss tomorrow.

Regarding price, i think Bob is suggesting that our current pricing is towards the top end of what most of us can realistically afford on a semi regular basis. The inference being that some Japanese engines are now over priced and out of reach. If this is what he meant then i agree as the new OS72 4 stroke is more expensive than our 180 and that is just astonishing. Our most popular engines have always been 70-150 with the 80 and 155 being our most popular in the last few years. I just need to make more.

Also Ron has been more than fair regarding his 240 problem as i would say his engine has suffered the most comprehensive failure i have seen in one of our engines in the whole time i have been at Laser.

As the engine shows no signs of abuse, overheating, debris ingestion or improper lubrication, and the failure is only the 3rd of this type we have seen in 35 years the repair will be completed under warranty asap.

[Manish Chandrayan]

So what went wrong with Ron's engine?

[John Stainforth]

I really don't see much difference between the prices of Lasers, Saito's or OS 4-stroke engines. (The prices depend a lot on where you buy the engines.) They are all wonderful pieces of engineering and worth the price. I have much more difficulty shelling out the cash for batteries for electric powered planes.

[Jon H]

Posted by John Stainforth on 21/11/2018 06:04:04:

I really don't see much difference between the prices of Lasers, Saito's or OS 4-stroke engines. (The prices depend a lot on where you buy the engines.) They are all wonderful pieces of engineering and worth the price. I have much more difficulty shelling out the cash for batteries for electric powered planes.

ummm..really? **LINK**

I was pretty shocked when i saw it!

Manish, knowing that people read what they want to read and not what is written down, and then panic based upon their misinterpretation of the information i wont say. Its not really important anyway, we take responsibility and will sort the problem for the customer. The last time i was honest about a problem i had people phoning me up in a flap asking if their engine was ok as they heard we were having trouble with piston rings. What actually happened was i noticed an increase in the rate of engines failing to meet the performance specs i aim for in test running. No engines had problems in service because no engines with unsatisfactory rings ever left the factory. I dont release engines that do not meet the standard i expect. This fact, and the fact that it was a material problem not a manufacturing problem, was ignored and didnt seem to matter despite my emphasising it on every post.

It all worked out fine though, our new design rings are the best we ever made so it ended up being a positive thing. Their massive static compression also allows me to leave booby traps for the boss.

Leave an engine with a prop on it and plug in the top...he cant help himself, he has to turn it over, and then krack! the compression gets him across the knuckles as it flips over TDC.

its a small victory, but i will take it.

[Bruce Collinson]

I was hoping like hell your boss doesn't read these when I saw the remarks yesterday about pricing, supply and demand and reading the above I'm REALLY hoping he doesn't! He might rap your knuckles .....

BTC