Electric Cars.

[Erfolg]

Don, so true

[Zflyer]

Not so much fiction as fact.....

[Engine Doctor]

On 08/02/2024 at 21:26, Learner said:

Apparently its Mr Bean's fault we're not buying electric cars😂

 

 

Good on Mr Bean. He told the truth unlike all the Ministers , Green Alliance and manufacturers who either live in a different world to most of us or in the case of manufacturers are being blackmailed into forcing EV cars on to customers by the  EZV law BoJo introduced that came into force on the 1st of January 24. What will motor manufactuers do when the public refuse to buy the 18 % of EVs the law demands , dump yhem in a gield as is done in China.

The Green alliance and the House of Lords are blaming Rowan Atkinson for the drop in sales ! How desperate are they ? Dont they realise that the buying public have a brain, or most do .

EV s have a place but should not be forced onto the driving public until we have an infrastructure that can cope. Dont forget that our electricity generating can just about cope at peak times due to our governments poor planning. A prolonged cold snap puts a enormous strain on  our grid and charging EVs will be the last concern if it were to happen. A longer transition is required .

We keep seeing claims of a "new wonder battery" in the press and in the media  but where are they. Do they really exist or are they carrots to keep  the dream alive ?

If a fraction of the  effort and money spent on incentivising and promoting EVs  was spent on sorting the NHS we might be a happier healthier nation with acceptable waiting lists .

I also listen with interest how EV owners are now complaining about the dissapearing incentives  to buy and looming road tax , no surprise there as no income to tax revenues from fuel sales. Imagine if purchase tax and Vat were charged ontop of charging an EV , who would buy one then !

Personally I dont trust anything a politically motivated person tells me as all their promises are either lies, flawed or turn into a handfull of dust that seeps away.

Edited February 10 by Engine Doctor

[Erfolg]

There have been other reports in the press that are not encouraging with respect to EVs, one being that specific tyres for EVs (is it all) have shallower tread, also wear out  faster, due to the combination of heavier vehicles, high initial acceleration, combined with the shallow depth of tread.

 

One of the issues that probably many have no awareness off is that the underground transmission cables, are often oil or gassed cooled, these cables are armoured (wire) and designed to withstand the forces generated from transmission, they invariably will have significant magnetic fields (as do the overhead cables). There is or was often a lead sheave to help with the mechanical performance. Sub sea cables are similar. As is usual, heat generation is an energy loss.

 

Power stations used to be close to point of use, as far as possible. The Anglesey reactor being close to a Electric Arc Furnace plant as an example that is not immediately. Long transmission lines mean obvious energy losses. On that basis some of the offshore sites are probably less than desirable, nor the remote on sure  sites. The various transformers are also a potential issue, needing cooling, full of oil, all indicating issues. Oil is going to be needed to an extent, however the world goes.

 

I shudder at the energy and Co2 released from Cement product. The bases of wind turbines need a lot.

 

Although Nuclear could provide base load energy for homes and transport, it is not ideal of fast ramp up and down. The intermittency of wind turbines under most circumstances do not seem ideal to follow demand profiles. Much of what is advocated is either an attempt to get the consumer to turn into a favourable demand regulator. The alternative fudges  come with various costs. With a population now predicted to reach 70 million in the next 15 years, the problems continue to grow.

 

Perhaps limiting the motor power could be used to limit acceleration (thus reducing some some of the issues) and a gear box to deal with the declining torque with revs. It is claimed that EV drivers use the initial acceleration, which has contributed to accidents (I find this a little far fetched, although could be part of the problem)

 

 

[Don Fry]

So Erf, subsidise a car that does in the real world, one hell of a lot of miles, and carries a max acceleration similar to a non turbo diesel box, ie efficient and boring, but functional. And recover the subsidy from taxes on fuel guzzlers

[Zflyer]

Don if you want one you pay for it without my subsidy...

[IDD15]

Meanwhile back in the real (not Mr Bean) world:

 

There are now just over 1 MILLION EVs registered in the UK with 20935 BEVs sold in Jan 24. A 21% increase in sales for the same period in 2023. 

You can crunch the full stats here.

 

Significantly the used car market for BEVS also grew dramatically in 2023 rising 90.9% 118,973 units. Again you can crunch the used stats on the SMMT website.

 

Charging infrastructure and rollout continues to improve with the installation rate of new devices running at about 1400 per month, a good detailed summary can be found here.

 

In terms of oil and gas subsidies it is estimated the industry received over a TRILLION dollars in 2022!!! At the last OPEC meeting they were demanding another $45 Billion dollars to transition to "greener" methods of production. OK then...

 

The first sodium battery EV is also now on sale, but not in the UK.

 

And to top it all to the best of my knowledge the lights are still on, and the electricity sub station has not blown up at the end of my road. Nor have I been turned away by our security man from the multi storey car park, and the Born has not turned into a portable BBQ. Oh yes and after one years wonderful quiet, responsive and smooth driving am loving my Born more and more. Now if I could only get it to wash itself...

 

Pip pip

idd 

 

PS Still got over 7mm on the tyres as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by IDD15

[Don Fry]

2 hours ago, Zflyer said:

Don if you want one you pay for it without my subsidy...

Ok, just tax the gas guzzlers

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Didn't see many complaints, from the diesel users getting a special deal on their dubious cleaner vehicles, one mans incentive is anothers "Oooh I'm offended".

Change is coming, and yes there'll be issues and given dates not met, so what's new ?

[Learner]

1 hour ago, IDD15 said:

Meanwhile back in the real (not Mr Bean) world:

 

There are now just over 1 MILLION EVs registered in the UK with 20935 BEVs sold in Jan 24. A 21% increase in sales for the same period in 2023. 

You can crunch the full stats here.

 

Significantly the used car market for BEVS also grew dramatically in 2023 rising 90.9% 118,973 units. Again you can crunch the used stats on the SMMT website.

 

Charging infrastructure and rollout continues to improve with the installation rate of new devices running at about 1400 per month, a good detailed summary can be found here.

 

In terms of oil and gas subsidies it is estimated the industry received over a TRILLION dollars in 2022!!! At the last OPEC meeting they were demanding another $45 Billion dollars to transition to "greener" methods of production. OK then...

 

The first sodium battery EV is also now on sale, but not in the UK.

 

And to top it all to the best of my knowledge the lights are still on, and the electricity sub station has not blown up at the end of my road. Nor have I been turned away by our security man from the multi storey car park, and the Born has not turned into a portable BBQ. Oh yes and after one years wonderful quiet, responsive and smooth driving am loving my Born more and more. Now if I could only get it to wash itself...

 

Pip pip

idd 

 

PS Still got over 7mm on the tyres as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds good, how many miles have you done in that year?

[Martin Dance 1]

I've been driving an elecric car for three and a half years. So here's my take on the pros and cons of driving electric. First I drive between 10.000 to 12,000 miles a year, so average mileage. Apart from local shopping trips,trips to the flying field and other local social trips which tend to average under ten miles. Visiting two of our children and sister in law involve round trips of between 50 to 100 miles. Our third child lives in Glasgow, we live in Reading Berkshire, so far we have not visited him, more on that later. I have a charger at home and use Octopus Go tariff which until recently the off peak rate was 7.5 p/Kwh This means that an average charge of 30Kwh costs about  £2.25 for around 180 miles, my average long term energy consumption is 4.8 miles per Kwh. Other running costs the first set of tyres lasted around 30,000 miles replacements like for like was £500. Servicing first two years £75. However the 30,000/3year service was £450, this involved changing brake fluid and changing the drive battery coolant. Yes the battery is water cooled and the car has a radiator. Now the downsides. The car had a habit of destroying the 12 volt battery, remember the vehicle systems are powered by a 12 volt battery. The current battery, not OEM is OK, but a software upgrade at the last service obviously has some bugs. If the car is left unused for about 36-48hrs the vehicle drains the 12v battery. Highly inconvenient. On one occasion recently whilst defrosting the car, everything on scenario after about 10 mins a low 12v battery flashed up. Odd because when you start the car the 12volt battery is immediately charged from the drive battery, not this occasion. Last uear I hit a deer and damaged the 'radiator' grill. The dealership not interested in repairing it. Tried a couple of body shops who would't quote, I guessed because its an EV. So on the basis of 'how difficult can it be' I ordered a replacement grille and waited three and a half months for it to arrive. Working on the basis of YouTube is your friend I searched for how to remove/replace a Hyundai Ioniq radiator grille,....NOTHING . Lastly long journeys, I mentioned we have a son living in Glasgow, the distance is just over 400 miles. He doesn't have an EV charger so we need to find an Hotel with on site charging. Nothing in the city despite Premier Inns claiming that their hotels have onsite charging (this may have changed in the last few weeks). Yes there are hotels in Scotland with chargers but they tend to be boutique hotels attached to golf courses with prices to match. Until autumn last year the last services before Glasgow was Tebay services in Cumbria, although Gretna services opened charging facilities last autumn. So some very careful planning needed to complete that journey.  Finally battery degradation/ loss of range. None detectable during my ownership of the car. Seasonal variation up to 20 miles during cold spells, hasn't changed in the three winters ofowning the car.

 

My PCP deal ends mid year so I am beginning to consider what next. Another EV, prices seem to have inflated since 2020, there is nothing directly comparable to the Ionq. Most manufacturers seem to be going for larger vehicles with the attendant high price. Last year I took a test drive in a Ford Mustang mach e its price was £60000 at least £15000 overpriced in my opinion. a PHEV, this would solve the Glasgow issue and choosing the right model my day to day use would mostly be electric traction.

 

So there is an account of three and a half years experience. I would say don't believe all you read pro and con, both sides of the argument each have their respective axes to grind.

 

[Lipo Man]

3 hours ago, Martin Dance 1 said:

My PCP deal ends mid year so I am beginning to consider what next. Another EV, prices seem to have inflated since 2020, there is nothing directly comparable to the Ionq. Most manufacturers seem to be going for larger vehicles with the attendant high price. Last year I took a test drive in a Ford Mustang mach e its price was £60000 at least £15000 overpriced in my opinion. a PHEV, this would solve the Glasgow issue and choosing the right model my day to day use would mostly be electric traction.

 

So there is an account of three and a half years experience. I would say don't believe all you read pro and con, both sides of the argument each have their respective axes to grind.

 

MG4 might do the job - and priced well below most alternatives. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Interesting Martin, so looking at your EV experience it looks like the EV and pollution laws are keeping the people off of the roads especially long trips, all for the rich,,,

[GrumpyGnome]

14 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Interesting Martin, so looking at your EV experience it looks like the EV and pollution laws are keeping the people off of the roads especially long trips, all for the rich,,,

Pollution laws? Presumably you mean the low emission zones in some cities?  

[flying pastor]

Martin, I suspect that you have an ioniq38 which is probably the most efficient bev there is. I have an mg4 and after 2 winters it has averaged 3.8. Have you thought of an almost new ioniq38 which should be much cheaper than new.

Zapmap shows several charging points around Glasgow and abrp is also a good app to use.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Pollution laws? Presumably you mean the low emission zones in some cities?  

The Same thing, just another bureaucratic name, are you fishing for a job in the French government ?.😄

[Tim Kearsley]

Is it a bad thing then, limiting cars poisoning people living in cities?

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

18 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

Is it a bad thing then, limiting cars poisoning people living in cities?

You can always move to the countryside and die from the agriculture poisons,,,

[Ace]

Out of curiosity anyone know the percentage of company car driver to private buyers of the 1mil BEV owners?  My gut feeling is that the huge tax reduction in BIK played a big part. Lost revenue from BIK, Vat & Fuel duty has to be recouped from somewhere as current levels are not sustainable.

Like Martin Dance a PHEV is high on my list, something with a reasonable electric only range - the new Skoda Superb est later this year with a 68 mile range would cover 90% of my local driving.  

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

4 minutes ago, Ace said:

the new Skoda Superb est later this year with a 68 mile range

Are you sure ?, one of our club members 'had' ( just got rid of it) an Ionic 5 with its 500 klm range, last month on a freezing day he only got 200 klm

out of it, panicking looking for a fast charger, he decided to get rid of it.

 

[leccyflyer]

37 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Are you sure ?, one of our club members 'had' ( just got rid of it) an Ionic 5 with its 500 klm range, last month on a freezing day he only got 200 klm

out of it, panicking looking for a fast charger, he decided to get rid of it.

 

 

You clubmates seem to have the most awful luck when it comes to electrical and mechanical things.

 Did it throw a prop? 😉

[Martin Dance 1]

To pick up on the comments above. Pollution, yes one of the reasons for choosing an EV was just because of tail pipe emissions travelling to our daughter involves passing through three small towns/large villages, why shouldnthe residents nbe subjected to my exhaust fumes when I can avoid it? Since last year my S I L now lives in the new London ULEZ  just outside Watford!  OnenthingnI didn't mention ismjustmhowthe nPublic charging infrastructurehas expanded since 2020. I estimate its trebled in size. Yes there are charging places in Glasgow city centre but they are in car parks so if you stay in a city centre hotel  youn will need to park in a car park to charge thus youn will payn not only for the charging but also the overnight rate for the carpark. Paul I find it difficult to believe your friend suffered such na large reduction in range following a cold night in France.

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

The Same thing, just another bureaucratic name, are you fishing for a job in the French government ?.😄

Not really.

 

If I want, I can get in my old Skoda estate, and drive to John O'Groates in the north of Scotland, or Lands End in the South, without encountering ANY pollution laws...... admirable hyperbole in your earlier post.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

 

You clubmates seem to have the most awful luck when it comes to electrical and mechanical things.

 Did it throw a prop? 😉

Non, sad member only flys ( and crashes) electrics, especially helicopters on 6s, the magic smoke helps to find some of the burning bits, burns the weeds and keeps us happy and warm in winter.😂

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

58 minutes ago, Martin Dance 1 said:

friend suffered such na large reduction in range following a cold night in France

So did I, when we take the mickey out of him buying a Peugeot diesel to come to the model field, he throws a fit and goes off home for a couple of days,

 he will be picking up his new Citroën ID 3 in a couple of weeks.