Can a drone fly at 10000ft?

[Martin McIntosh]

Some years ago when I visited our field a member had already got a DJI to 1km (about 3,300ft). Had I known I would have put a stop to this but it was too late. He then tried to come down but had set the auto descent rate too slow and could do nothing about it. The thing landed with about 5 secs of power left.

I have no doubt that with modern batteries etc, a `drone` could get up and back down from 10,000ft, but why would any sane person want to do this?

[Erfolg]

Visit the DJI site, as suggested. What it indicates is that the commercial drones sold, do not commonly have the capability to reach 10,000 feet. The manufactures are selling products that are useful to their purchasers/operators.

As an electric flier I wonder about the Lipos, as my Lipos would not like -4 degrees as the norm.

It does not mean that quads are not operated by stupid people in an inappropriate manner. It does suggest that any pilot however gifted by God, will be unlikely to encounter, never mind see and recognise a drone whilst batting along at 500 mph.

[Chris Walby]

So time ago I was sitting at the back of the room during a full size glider pilots briefing when one of the pilots mentioned the following (no idea if its true).

Looking out of the glider canopy a fast jet approaching will be visible for 3 seconds

First second the size of a pea

Next second golf ball

Third second and its gone past,

Bearing in mind the size of a fast jet compared with most drones and you have 2 seconds to see it, you have got to be very lucky to spot it and call "drone"

I expect glider pilots highest workload at altitude is observation which is completely the opposite to a commercial pilot.

PS

Last weeks NOTAMS warned pilots at London Luton that a drone would be operating within the airport perimeter to 400 ft alg, next people will be claiming they saw a drone near the airport...and they would be right.

[John Privett]

OK, curiosity got the better of me, so I looked back on the Playback feature of flightradar24 to 17 August at 15:36Z (16.36 BST)

The nearest I can see to what is described is a Jet2 airline 737 inbound to STN at 9,000 feet and a ground speed of 271 knots. No airspeed quoted, that would have been slightly less - the aircraft was heading east at the time - traffic into LHR on the day was using runway(s) 27.

[John Lee]

It varies dependant on the class of airspace, but in general for most civil air traffic there is an speed limit of 250knots indicated airspeed below Flight Level 100 (10,000ft)

[Don Fry]

OK, I'm stressed out doing a very fiddly indoor jobbie. So a change. Assume John has the right aircraft. It's covering 200 meters in 1.5 seconds.

Visual acuity of a person with 20/20 vision is a minute of arc. So a minute of arc in degrees, is 0.0166666.....

So the limit of acuity, at 200 meters is tan 0.0166666*200=0.3 meters. Don't trust my maths.

But assuming I got that right, said 30 cm drone is a vanishing dot at 200 meters, asssuming its big disk towards the observer. And it will be on you a second and a half later. I would reckon pilots awould be very good at seeing small dots in the distance. It's their job, and they get lots of practice. Buts the above maths says that's the limit of what a person with 20/20 vision can see, a 300 mm disc at 200 meters.

Check the maths. I'm rusty at this sort of thing.

[Former Member]

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[Ron Gray]

I think I saw something = must have been a drone!

[Don Fry]

Cheers Steve, sounds better. I take your point, up front of one of those things. Birds you can't do much about, plastic bags are of no interest. And then you get the possibility of a drone gets on the agenda. Will make you wish that possibility would go away. And you see some things wrongly. Reckon I would.

[John Lee]

Posted by Steve J on 17/12/2018 15:02:54:

The problem is that the numbers of airproxes have shot up in the last few years (i.e. since easy to fly FPV/multirotor SUA because available.).

Steve

Indeed they have, here are the official stats published monthly by the CAA

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Maybe it's a new Santa, and he's practicing for the big day.

[Former Member]

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[Gordon Tarling]

Posted by Don Fry on 17/12/2018 15:36:09:

Cheers Steve, sounds better. I take your point, up front of one of those things. Birds you can't do much about, plastic bags are of no interest. And then you get the possibility of a drone gets on the agenda. Will make you wish that possibility would go away. And you see some things wrongly. Reckon I would.

Plastic bags ARE of interest Don. Ingested into an engine, they melt and can block vital cooling holes in turbine blades etc.

[J D 8]

I was in the 80's flying a 30 foot span microlight and had a near miss with two RAF hawk jets. It was close enough for me to the pilot of the nearest aircraft gripping his stick and the backseater looking at his clipboard.

As Chris notes from the time I saw dot's in the sky to them passing was no more than five seconds.They did not see me.

[Erfolg]

In an era where it is possible for boys to have periods, as nowis to be taught in some schools, where one cash strapped authority is to install disposal devices in the male toilets. It seems that however improbable something is, you are very brave to challenge the improbable.

I imagine this places many, particularly the BMFA in a position, where even if the report seems most improbable, that it is politically desirable to at best stay silent. Anything else would risk that some would say that they do not take the issue seriously. Deniers, perhaps having some type of phobia.

I now await the verified report of a hobby quad at 30, 000 feet, and traveling at mach 2. Even the manufacturers name was clearly seen.

[Former Member]

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[Ian Jones]

This thread has changed from "Can a drone fly at 10000ft?" to "Can a pilot identify a drone whilst flying an aircraft". The former technical question has been near enough answered but the latter observational question has not, even though there is a lot of supporting comments suggesting he can't"

Even though many would be quick to dismiss it, I would very much like to see an official CAA response regarding the latter question, or perhaps an official BMFA response.

Edited By Ian Jones on 19/12/2018 10:29:55

[Nigel R]

"In an era where it is possible for boys to have periods"

black is white, up is down, left is right, and big brother is watching you

[John Lee]

It is well documented that it is very difficult to pick out another aircraft - or drone - whilst flying, the UK Airprox Board has several documents outlining the physiology and techniques that can be applied to help mitigate the problem. We teach these from lesson 1 for full size.

However once an object has been spotted the eye & brain are good at identifying it - as my earlier post illustrated & for example as JD8 observed above he could see the stick & clipboard in an opposite direction fast jet.

[kc]

Now they are blaming chinese lanterns for a near miss!   This time it was 20,000ft and Cambridgeshire  ( see Daily Mail website)

Edited By kc on 19/12/2018 13:50:33

[J D 8]

I was once responding to a Coasguard call out about possible UFO's being seen over the town and was talking to the first informant on the main street when Batman and Wonderwoman came strolling up the road [ a real fools and horses moment ] I asked Batman had he seen anything to be informed that idiots were launching chinese lanterns down at the sea front.

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 19/12/2018 21:33:42

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Don Fry]

From John Lee, "However once an object has been spotted the eye & brain are good at identifying it - as my earlier post illustrated & for example as JD8 observed above he could see the stick & clipboard in an opposite direction fast jet."

the brain has very fast and clever pattern recognition systems. But it recognises patterns, but can gives false positives, and false negatives. Have you never stared at something, and not been able to work out what it is, then you get a mental flip, and you see what it is. Or seeing the man on the moon.

If the brain says it's a drone at first "seeing", you believe it, and if it's gone in seconds, you never worked out what is was, and it's a drone

[John Lee]

Yes, mistakes can be made and no doubt there are errors in some of the reports.

However all the reports are scrutinised by the UK Airprox board (linked above) which is comprised of 14 experienced practitioners plus a number of expert advisors and undergo a rigorous causal analysis & risk assessment before the results are published. I'm inclined to take their output seriously.