CAA registration take-up?

[Tim Kearsley]

Posted by Scott Edwards 2 on 15/12/2019 10:30:33:

 

Like most clubs, we have some 'senior' members. You can do the BMFA test and upload the certificate on their behalf. I've done several now. I'm sure I will get criticised, but it solves the problem and I have no guilt about treating this ridiculous legislation with the contempt it deserves.

 

Two things strike me as being a tad silly about this:

1) Doing it in the first place

2) Publicly stating that you've done it!

I don't think it's in the long run helping anybody.

Tim.

 

Edited By Tim Kearsley on 15/12/2019 11:47:48

[John Tee]

I didn't do the test but I talked a member through it over the phone as he had trouble finding the right site, he was on the A test site. He read the questions and answered them himself and passed. He then had trouble finding his pass certificate. He got there in time to renew his membership at our AGM

John

[Robin Colbourne]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

My friend is a BMFA member, and has been for donkey's years. He also partially sighted. He wouldn't ever be flying alone and generally I launch the models for him when we go out flying, so technically it is me flying them, but I'm sure as they are his models he would like to be 'legal' too.

It sounds as though the easiest option, when I next see him, would be for me to talk him through the online test, asking him the questions and entering the answers he gives.

[Chris Channon]

Good morning all, a bit of advice required really. I have paid my BMFA sub, added the extra £9 carried out the competancy test. How long does it take to get a number from the CAA and can i fly now without the number?

Thank you in advance

Chris.C.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Chris, have you not received the latest BMFA news, it's all in there, but basically

1) BMFA will do a bulk transfer to CAA of members registration details end of Jan 2020

2) CAA will then e-mail operator IDs out directly

3) BMFA members are exempt from displaying operator IDs until 23rd Feb

[Dickw]

Chris

Can I just add one more item to Frank's list

4) You need to carry a copy of the CAA "exemptions" with you whenyou go flying.

They were in the recent issue of BMFA news, or you can download them from the BMFA website.

Dick

[Chris Channon]

Brilliant, thank you .

Have a great Christmas,

Chris.C.

[Kim Taylor]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 17/12/2019 08:44:33:

Chris, have you not received the latest BMFA news, it's all in there, but basically

Sorry to jump in off topic, but has anyone else NOT received their copy of the BMFA News yet, or is it just me?

If just me, I'll have to email the BMFA

Thanks

Kim

[Kevin Wilson]

Hi Kim

Not just you. Perhaps I need to contact BMFA also

[Chris Berry]

I've had a response to my FOI today. I'm quite surprised they don't keep percentage pass/fail rates or lots of analytical data. I assume that of all those that have registered most are hobbists and professionals and not the christmas toy brigade.

How many people have signed up via the BMFA?

Dear Mr Berry Thank you for your request of 30 November 2019, for the release of information held by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). Your request has been considered in line with the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).

Your request and our response: Please note the information below is correct as of 16 December 2019.

The information requested below relates to the Drone Registration and Education Service

1. Since the launch date (5th November 2019), how many individuals have registered as:

I. A non flying operator? 5,219 (Operator only & Organisation Operator)

II. A flying operator? 60,470 (Operator & Flyer) III. Have registered a child under 13? 654 (Guardian)

1a. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) how many organisations have registered to use Drones or model aircraft? 3,026

2. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) how many individuals have:

I. Completed the online theory test? 67,945 (Operator & Flyer, Flyer only and Under 13)

II. Have completed a hard copy of the test? We have sent 15 offline flyer packs.

3. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) how many individuals have

I. Passed the online theory test?

II.Failed the online theory test?

III. Of those who passed the online theory test how many individuals had more than one attempt?

IV. Of those who failed the online theory test how many individuals had more than one attempt?

As we do not capture this data we do not hold the information requested. The Drone Registration and Education Service (DRES) allows an individual to register as an operator and complete the theory test at a later date, therefore the number of people registered is not reflective of the number of people who have passed the theory test.

4.

I. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) what percentage of those who passed the online theory test answered all questions correctly?

II. What was the average score of all those who passed the online theory test?

III. What was the average score of all those who failed the online theory test?

We do not hold the information requested.

5. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) how many Operator ID numbers have been issued? 65,689 (Operator & Flyers, Operator only & Organisation Operators)

6. Since the launch date (5th November 2019) how many Flyer ID numbers have been issued? 68,614 (Operator Flyers, Flyer only, Guardian & Under 13)

[cymaz]

I have been wondering what uk model shops have been doing to educate anyone who might go out and buy something that flies this Christmas.

As a bit of a crude test I choose 11 model shops that I could think of and looked on their home page on the web.

I looked across the page and on each one I clicked wherever it mentioned information or similar.

No Information at all about the new scheme...

1. Steve Webb
2. Als Hobbies
3. Balsa Cabin
4. Probuild
5. Totem Hobbies
6. St Austell Model Centre
7. Nitrotek
8. Wheelspin Models

Information about the new scheme but tucked away

1. RCWorld
2. Hobbymounts

And the winner is SMC . A big red banner across the home page.

It’s just a quick look but doesn’t it prove there is education needed with retailers as well as the general public. It’s easy to put up “ Merry Christmas to all our customers “ but obviously very hard to put anything else.

[cymaz]

And there’s no reason for club websites not to do it either

[Nigel Heather]

Reading the discussion a few posts up about the elderly guy that does free-flight, I initially thought that everyone was missing the point because I thought that free-flight, like control line, kites balloons and rockets are exempted.

But I see that I am wrong and that free flight ‘pilots’ (I would be more inclined to call them spectators) must comply with the legislation. The BMFA site describes some useful stuff to observe before launching which all makes perfect sense but as far as I am aware is not covered in the actual legislation but I would have thought that once you have launched you are pretty much in the hands of the gods - how do you comply.

For example when a low flying air ambulance makes an appearance, how do you comply with the rule that states that you must immediately either move out of the way or land?

Cheers,

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Heather on 03/01/2020 08:48:46

[Don Fry]

Get a grip Nigel, simple, get a shotgun certificate, permission to shoot, and a shotgun, and take it out. The model, not the ambulance.

[Wilco Wingco]

Does it now mean that when I purchase any modelling supplies, on line or face to face, I have to produce my CAA registration??. And do the suppliers have to report to the CAA any person who tries to purchase any model aircraft supplies without a CAA registration document? If he or she sells me a drone does he have to supply the CAA with my name and address so that the CAA can police their rules and ensure that I then fly in accordance with the new legislation, or will the local police force be in contact to check?.

Too many rules and too many unanswered questions.

[Dickw]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 03/01/2020 10:16:57:

Does it now mean that .........................................

No.

Dick

[Wilco Wingco]

So it will only be law abiding BMFA members who will pay the subscription and be monitored by the CAA ?. So whats the point behind it?, I have paid up and done the test but if the "system" is not going to be monitored I honestly don't see the point. How will it improve safety or protect people and property?.

[EvilC57]

It won't.

[Dickw]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 03/01/2020 12:59:40:

So it will only be law abiding BMFA members who will pay the subscription and be monitored by the CAA ?..................

So far I believe there have been around 70,000+ registrations on the CAA system.

The BMFA has around 35,000 members, but most of these will not be added to the CAA system until beginning of February in a bulk data transfer.

So no (again) - it's not just BMFA members who will pay the subscription.

Dick

[Scott Edwards 2]

 

The purpose seems to be twofold.

1) If the Rozzers catch someone being a tw@t with a Drone they've now got some legislation to use to prosecute them, previously it was possible but difficult to prove.

2) We've had the airspace up to 400ft pretty much to ourselves because there was no commercial value to it. With the march of delivery drone technology there is now a potential value and all governments are seeing it as an earner. This legislation is the Government and CAA stamping their authority on this airspace in order to control future use.

The next step is likely to be mandatory on board GPS beacons, but hopefully through the BMFA we will be able to register our flying fields as areas of operation which will be geomapped. This is what's happening in the USA with the FAA. It will of course cost a big lump of cash to register a flying field each year. The £9 is just a tiny warm up act for the giant baseball bat of pain that's coming our way in the next couple of years.

 

 

 

Edited By Scott Edwards 2 on 03/01/2020 18:22:44

[Alan Gorham_]

As a slight correction I think we've had more airspace than just up to 400 feet and we currently still do. Only people who are not currently members of a UK model flying association are limited to 400 feet with a less than 7kg model.

[Chris Berry]

A response from the CAA to my FOI of a few weeks ago regarding their media campaign.

It seems clear to me that central government and or the DFT do not see drone use and the associated risks as being as important as the various things you see on TV in relation to health, roads and tax.

The DFT and CAA have made little attempt to make the general public aware of the new regulations and have targeted us, when they know that we are not the issue.

Your request and our response:

"Therefore, the estimated annual cost for a major national drone safety and registration campaign is £300'000". (taken from the consultation document)

Can you please provide me with the following answers.

1. To date how much of the £300'000 has been spent on marketing DMARES, excluding internal CAA/DFT costs/recharges.

The circa £300,000 (including VAT) that has been allocated to be spent on drone safety education from the drone registration funding comes into effect at the start of the CAA’s new financial year on 1 April 2020. The CAA’s work in 2019 to promote the new drone registration scheme has been funded out of a separate £169,000 of funding from the Department for Transport.

2. How much of the £300'000 has been spent on TV marketing?

None.

2a. Which channels were used and on how many occasions was the scheme advertised?

Based on the budget available television advertising is not a sensible or appropriate method for the promotion of the new registration scheme. One slot alone would cost (depending on time and programme) between £5,000 and £30,000. On top of this would be the considerable costs associated with developing the slot itself. Based on the overall budget, the large number of TV channels now available, the significant number of people who now view TV via catch up and the low level of audience targeting available this medium was discounted in favour of others that offered better value for money and targeting. While not undertaking paid advertising a significant amount of TV broadcast coverage and interviews were achieved by the campaign with an equivalent value well in excess of the overall campaign budget.

3. How much of the £300'000 has been spent on Radio marketing?

None.

3a. Which stations were used and on how many occasions was the scheme advertised?

Radio advertising was considered as part of the campaign however due to the relatively small budget (compared to other national behavioural change campaigns), the large number of commercial radio stations and the low level of targeting available this medium was discounted in favour of others that offered better value for money and targeting. While not undertaking paid advertising a number of radio interviews and significant radio coverage was achieved by the campaign.

4. How much of the £300'000 has been spent on printed newspaper/magazine marketing?

4a. Which publications were used and on how many occasions was the scheme advertised?

Two adverts were placed in Drone User magazine at a cost of £1,500.

5. What other mass public media was used and how much did it cost?

Throughout the promotion work the target audience has been drone users who might be less aware of the new registration scheme. Commercial users, model aircraft enthusiasts and active members of the drone community may well have been exposed to the work but are generally more informed of developments in the drone world or will have been contacted directly by the CAA or their member organisations. The majority of our effort has been in working with national media to place stories around the registration scheme. This is the most cost effective method to reach a mass audience which has been proved (in this campaign and others) to be extremely successful in encouraging people to act. Our first media push which, among other significant coverage, achieved the front page of the Daily Telegraph, a top story on the BBC news online home page, a live interview on BBC Radio 5 drivetime and rolling coverage on the BBC News Channel. This success was replicated in the two further pushes at the beginning of December and post-Christmas that included coverage on Sky News, ITV national news and the Daily Mail. These have had a direct correlation to the numbers of people registering with the largest number of daily registrations being linked to the media coverage. The first media push in advance of registration going live was seen by over nine million people with 156 items of coverage. Other related work funded from this budget in 2019 includes:

• The development of a drone education and promotion stand that has been taken to events in 2019 to encourage safe drone flying, registration and promoting the drone industry. This included attending two Duxford Airshows where the stand was visited by significant numbers of people. This stand will also be used at events in coming years.

• Development of the new Dronecode for the DRES education system and Dronecode handout

• Development of the new drones reunited system and website and revised Dronesafe website

• Development of education material for drone retailers

• Development of display material for events

• Development of promotional animations for use on multiple channels In linked work the Department for Transport has arranged for promoted posts across a number of social media channels including Twitter, Facebook and Instagram targeted at those showing an interest in drones.

[Simon Chaddock]

"The majority of our effort has been in working with national media to place stories around the registration scheme."

That sentence from the CAA's response may seem innocent but it does make me wonder. There is there is nothing like a 'scare' story to get serious media attention at little or no cost.

[Chris Berry]

That is certainly a possibility Simon. When you see all the public service information adverts about change for life, don't drive in a lane marked with an X, don't take antibiotics, don't smoke, don't drink, make sure you claim your benefits etc etc, they spend hundreds of thousands of pounds. Yet for drones, which are a menace to our society and will cause mass deaths from airliner crashes they hardly bother and pick on the very people who do know what the law is....it seems perverse.

[Trevor]

Well, at least the CAA seem to have taken some trouble to give you a full and informative reply to your enquiry rather than just a minimally-compliant FOI response. It also seems to acknowledge that we model flyers are not a source of great concern to them, which surely is a good thing.