Graham Davies 3 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, ken anderson. said: but are there to make someone think twice about buying a radio controlled model of whatever description Hi Ken, A year or so ago a good, and largely law abiding friend of mine bough himself a drone. Until I told him about the need to register, he didn't have the first idea it was necessary. And again, here lies the same problem; those outside the law, will remain so... I do struggle with this legislation, although accept something ought be done. I'm not too sure if anyone made use of the great big long registration code on the side of the drone over the stadium... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 hello Graham...that's really part of the problems...people may be keen on having a go with a one but aren't made aware of the regs...so are ignorant of them...and when something happens...they assume that they are model flyers as we are......the regs are constantly get updated and it is hard to keep up....but as long as we have something we can refer to ...to keep ourselves right...i'm happy......i've been flying like many others for umteen years and try and do it with causing upset and offence to anyone....as the majority of abiding model flyers i imagine do..........., and I'm not about to turn feral... ken anderson...ne...1...Feral dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zflyer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Those intent on doing bad things will certainly not do anything which will aid in their prosecution. Regrading the legislation being changed I think the only thing that will change will be the cost which will certainly be upward. As for not knowing the regulations I would suggest the retailer has an obligation to point that out. Mind id it means loosing a sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Don Fry said: Not quite right about flying only from registered sites in France. That applies to aircraft over 800g not fitted with an electronic here I am device. Maybe if I take the 4 motors off of my Quad, then it 'might' come down to 800 grams, but all my planes weigh over 3 kilos so even if I took the engine off it would be illegal over here, As for the 'tracker' that's for a few clubs near model fields, I think there are around 8 of them, and flying 'Wild',,, Ps you wait and see in England some more laws will arrive and the £9 tax will go up,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: Ps you wait and see in England some more laws will arrive and the £9 tax will go up,,, That's not a nice thing to say and BTW it's not a tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, EarlyBird said: That's not a nice thing to say and BTW it's not a tax. Yes, in the same way vehicle excise duty isn't a tax! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Andy Stephenson said: Yes, in the same way vehicle excise duty isn't a tax! I thought it was an administration fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: Maybe if I take the 4 motors off of my Quad, then it 'might' come down to 800 grams, but all my planes weigh over 3 kilos so even if I took the engine off it would be illegal over here, As for the 'tracker' that's for a few clubs near model fields, I think there are around 8 of them, and flying 'Wild',,, Ps you wait and see in England some more laws will arrive and the £9 tax will go up,,, About time you looked at the French regulations, I think you will be retaking them towards the end of the year. Edited January 24, 2022 by Don Fry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just watch out for these, springing up about the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Is it a magnetic device to put a turd in orbit? Edited January 24, 2022 by Don Fry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Don Fry said: Is it a magnetic device to put a turd in orbit? Apologies Don, These are directional trackers for smallish UFO, which guide interested parties to track and record flight path and landing. Used in sensitive locations. This is only one device of an array of new tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, ken anderson. said: don't you think that the regs intoduced aren't to deter bona fide members of associations...who try to do what they have been told(most of the time)...... but are there to make someone think twice about buying a radio controlled model of whatever description .....bearing in mind all the stuff they need to do to fly lawfully? ...... instead of out of the box and fly....regardless.....and cause an accident/incident. as an aside,not long ago there was a theory that the regs were to clear the airways....and allow Drones to fly,here there and everywhere.......that seems to have gone quiet also...... i may be wrong of course.? ken anderson...ne..1... regs dept. If you have read the various papers dating back to the Riga agreement of 2015 you can see that the primary goal of the legislation has never been increased safety - that is essentially a by-product. It is the integration of UAS into the airspace for economic gain that was always the primary goal - read the first 2 of the "Key issues" from output paper from that conference if you don't believe me... Considers that the RPAS sector urgently requires European and global rules in order to ensure cross-border RPAS development; considers that a clear European legal framework is needed to ensure investment and development of a competitive European RPAS sector; underlines the fact that if no action is taken promptly, there is a risk that the economic potential and positive effects of RPAS will not be fully realised; Recalls the economic importance of this sector, and underlines the need for suitable policies to protect privacy and ensure data protection, safety and security, which are proportionate to their aim while not imposing an unnecessary burden on SMEs; ...the safety of BVLOS flights is not addressed toil about the 5th bullet! So why are the skies not black with delivery drones then? Well, we all know why (with curent tech it is not easy to do, certainly not over any decent range or in crowded urban environments), but of course that makes no difference - but because you have to have the legal frameworks in place before you can attempt the practicalities the ministers will continue to be whispered to by the big industrial players, hence why we alreadyhave to register ourselves and take the online competency tests etc. Ultimately if our friendly ministers they think there are tax £££s and jobs to be had, they'll go after them to help secure their seats at the next election. It's true that the BMFA and other national associations have managed to stave of the worst case scenario so far, and @Cuban8 is right that there seems little likelhood of BVLOS drone eliveries in even the medium term. However, that doesn't mean we are safe forever. For a start our Article 16 authorisations have to be reviewed and approved annually by the CAA, so if they were to go many, many clubs would struggle to operate legally. Paul de T's delivery style in this thread might be a little abrupt ;), but ultimately he is correct - it is highly likely that further legislation and more onerous requirements will be put forward in the coming years as that is the clear global trend. The most obvious of these are the remote ID requirements in France (which are live) and the US (which are going through a lengthy review process prior to the final legislation being agreed). If the US get that through do you really think the UK will rebuff the big US corporations lobbying for that to happen here? ~50-100k recreational model/UAS pilots is not a whole lot of voters, so I know where my money is... Edited January 24, 2022 by MattyB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 55 minutes ago, MattyB said: Paul de T's delivery style in this thread might be a little abrupt ;), but ultimately he is correct So it's a fact not just an opinion? Why all the pessimism? Is there no one on here with an optimistic outlook? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 EB, don't worry about it now, just take it in your stride when and if it does come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Here is who and what started it in 2013,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, EarlyBird said: So it's a fact not just an opinion? Why all the pessimism? Is there no one on here with an optimistic outlook? ? I think that aeromodellers are some of the most optimistic individuals around - hundreds if not thousands of pounds worth of equipment put into the air and the risk of losing the lot if something goes wrong - got to have an optimistic outlook! No, this is not about whinging, complaining and just being plain awkward, but questioning the validity of corralling affiliated model aircraft and drone flyers with an excellent safety record in with a new and publically available technology that unfortunately has given the authorities serious concerns (real or imagined) and resulting in the regs that we have now. Arguing that the regs need to be in place because of an expected army of commercial UAVs criss-crossing the skyways anytime soon is barmy. It's never going to amount to anywhere near a problem with our models/drones that'll need to be looked at for decades to come, if at all- so why the mad rush to legislate now? I would like to see members of any of the recognised model flying or drone flying bodies (e.g. BMFA/BDF or FPVUK etc) competely removed from the CAA system and traceability simply to be based on a flyer's association membership number. Why would my BMFA membership number not be sufficient? I can see the advantage of being able to trace the owner of a lost model or whatever in the rare event of third party damage where our insurance would come into force and right any wrongs that had occurred to a member of the public. I view that as a responsible and positive way forward that puts us in a good light. Many flyers have been putting their BMFA number on their models for years, so we've been ahead of the game. My car registration number allows the police and insurance companies to trace my vehicle in the case of a problem, so what's wrong with simply putting your BMFA number on models without the duplication of a long CAA number and the extra expense? The chances of a model needing to be traced because of something serious happening to it is highly unlikely and I'd be interested to know just how many times the CAA database has been used so far to trace a lost machine. Edited January 24, 2022 by Cuban8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I try to be optimistic, things ain't going to revert back to what they where, no matter how many posts we write, waste of time to keep moaning about it, lots of newer stuff we can moan about. ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Ron Gray said: EB, don't worry about it now, just take it in your stride when and if it does come. Thanks Ron, It just happens that that is what I do. Too many moaners and groaners in the world, predicting the worst helps no one. We need jollying along as minor obstacles are put in our way all working towards a common goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm sure the efforts of the BMFA and the responses from individuals surprised the legislators and contributed to our relatively benign legislation. Trying to take a realistic view is neither optimism nor pessimism but we need to watch out and react to any future threats to the viability of our hobby/sport (delete as appropriate). Enjoy what we have, dream about the old days and be wary of the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Oh come on what else can I do but moan,,,, It's winter and cold, and looking back at my life ( sad so and so ), flying free on the Newcastle town moor, sharing a field in the middle of the town with people walking their dogs, some playing golf and cows,,, Then over to France where I tasted real liberty,,, free parking no speed radars etc etc, I have ben flying all around the south of France with only a FFAM licence, ( French model federation )slop soaring, public demonstrations, French Helicopter championships, Pylon racing etc, but now there are so many laws, there are no public model meetings, only inter-club ones no Paella, no chatting to the public, and of course no buddy box flying with the youngsters, the Covid pass was the last straw,,,,, Still one good thing I found this forum to pass my time and yes it is a good one with plenty of exchanges,, Ps yes thanks MHM reminiscing at the moment,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_K Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Paul, It sounds like your gilets jaunes is ready for wear. (Sorry if I am mangling the French language). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I did start manifesting at the very beginning, but the Police ( under Macrons orders ) got very violent even when they were peacefully walking through some towns I gave up very quickly, anyway the French government don't act on what the 'people' think or do, 1789 changed the 'titles', but not the system,,,,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, EarlyBird said: Thanks Ron, It just happens that that is what I do. Too many moaners and groaners in the world, predicting the worst helps no one. We need jollying along as minor obstacles are put in our way all working towards a common goal. A proper pessimist, is just someone who has had a reality check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 56 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: I did start manifesting at the very beginning, but the Police ( under Macrons orders ) got very violent even when they were peacefully walking through some towns I gave up very quickly, anyway the French government don't act on what the 'people' think or do, 1789 changed the 'titles', but not the system,,,,? Paul, very sorry, I can’t believe that any police force needs the orders of a small man to enforce a bit of order, without too many broken bits. Anyway, I’m signing off. I cooked a paella, clams, prawns, Queenies, braised and grilled duck thighs, and it drove the dog wild, and he tripped madam up, and now she has a broken nose. I have a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Sorry to hear about your wife Don, I wish her a speedy recovery,, As for the Police you can't get away from them 2 are club members and the President is a Gendarme, which immediately put paid to my FPV flying years ago,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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