Nigel Dell Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Quote Drone I don’t normally get into the debates about drones as I believe each to their own but this story left me cold, how someone could be this stupid is beyond me. This sort of press is something we do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just plain old ignorance/stupidity I am afraid and a belief that " I know what I am doing and it's fine " Hope to hear a big fat fine is levied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Already covered: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Ignorance, stupidity or the growing attitude these days of " I know better , it doesn't apply to me " . Let's hope the judge wh9 sentences him is a Hanging Judge Jeffrey's type and not a snowflake who gives the idiot a very strong telling off ! Edited January 10, 2023 by Engine Doctor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, J D 8 said: Just plain old ignorance/stupidity I am afraid and a belief that " I know what I am doing and it's fine " Hope to hear a big fat fine is levied. 35 minutes ago, Engine Doctor said: Ignorance, stupidity or the growing attitude these days of " I know better , it doesn't apply to me " . Let's hope the judge wh9 sentences him is a Hanging Judge Jeffrey's type and not a snowflake who gives the idiot a very strong telling off ! sadly I know your are right, I saw this come up in my FB feed whilst at the hospital yesterday and they were concerned when taking my blood pressure! Much better now though 😂 I sincerely hope he does get something more than a slap on the wrists for this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Oblivious I would describe one young chap I met by chance on a almost deserted beach in Wales last summer. He was " oblivious " of any dangers, rules or regs that may effect his flying of a huge, very expensive camera quad, out in the open. It turns out he was a company director, looking to film and overfly his properties and business for promotion. So here is a educated man risking everything, completely unaware of any discrepancy. His jaw dropped when I explained the current state of play and he packed up and left. It shows that it is possible to go out and spend £100s maybe £1000s without being given notice of restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 The problem is to a large extent due to the way many drones are sold. Before Christmas a TV channel was offering drones and the salesman frequently made the point that you don't need any skill or qualifications to fly this drone ( it was under 250 gm and had a camera ) and no doubt ordinary viewers would expect this to apply to any drone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Engine Doctor said: Ignorance, stupidity or the growing attitude these days of " I know better , it doesn't apply to me " . Why "growing attitude these days" It not a new phenomenon & I doubt it's an increasing one.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 This type of behaviour is always going to happen rather like those people who drive around unlicenced and uninsured. No amount of legislation or education will have them change their ways - it's simply how their minds work. Thankfully, they only represent a very small number of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Yes, very few people get done for speeding, no one complains about speed cameras & it's rare to see anyone driving with a phone in their hand. 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC57 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 hours ago, J D 8 said: Just plain old ignorance/stupidity I am afraid and a belief that " I know what I am doing and it's fine " Hope to hear a big fat fine is levied. I had a case of this three or four years ago. I was sitting in the back garden at home when I heard the familiar sound of a drone flying nearby. I looked up and saw a racing type drone flying at some speed around 80ft or so above the house. I live near a park, and it seemed someone was flying circuits around the park, and also overflying the houses nearby. A week or so later I was out for a walk, and caught sight of him just packing up. It seems he’d been lone flying FPV. The guy was clearly a good flier, but had no idea or regard for the law. A couple of us from my club planned to try and nobble him to try to teach him the error of his ways next time he did it, but I never saw him again, so maybe someone else got to him first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Engine Doctor said: Ignorance, stupidity or the growing attitude these days of "I know better , it doesn't apply to me" . Let's hope the judge wh9 sentences him is a Hanging Judge Jeffrey's type and not a snowflake who gives the idiot a very strong telling off ! Presumably you have never exceeded the speed limit, and are therefore happy to advocate for corporate punishment for all speeding offenses? ~202 people were killed in the UK in 2020 in collisions involving excessive speed (as per this ROSPA page). By comparison the global total number of people killed by multirotor drones in all of history is a big fat zero at this point. In light of that I suggest you ease off the hyperbole and let law enforcement and the legal system do it's job. The guy was caught, he is going to be punished in line with the current limits of the law, and it is being used as an example to publicise the need for responsible flying. Calling for his head on a public forum might make you feel better temprarily, but it does not further the overall cause of responsible model flyers - indeed in the long run this is exactly the kind of outraged reaction the authorities are hoping to get whcih they can hold up as "support" for further legislation. Edited January 10, 2023 by MattyB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 According to newspapers many have been killed by drones in Ukraine etc. As in this case we don't know if its multirotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Aeromodellers reaction to this should be that it's not us who have A certificates, insurance and fly from known flying fields but rogue fliers who just fly from anywhere and probably uninsured. Actually it's the camera on the drone that causes this type of problem - that should be subject of any future limitation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, PatMc said: & it's rare to see anyone driving with a phone in their hand I'm assuming that this comment was made with tongue in cheek (sorry if that is what your emoji is but I can't see it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Trouble is, we all get tarred with the same brush. Remember what recently put modelling in a bad light in the first place?. "Drones....Airport anybody?". CAA, Article 16, RCC etc. etc. Anyway, time to move on. Edited January 10, 2023 by SIMON CRAGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, kc said: According to newspapers many have been killed by drones in Ukraine etc. As in this case we don't know if its multirotor. OK, but that is hardly a comparable use case though! Where drones are being used as weapons of war there is not likely to be any expectation of adherence or enforcement of regulations designed to ensure safe recreational and commercial usage... Edited January 10, 2023 by MattyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I have recently been looking at various super models and full size disasters on you tube. Many of these featured adverts for a drone with control by phone, hi res camera with recording, hovering over a spot, flying to a distant destination and auto return to home etc, all for £85. If it were not for the fact that I can no longer fly one from my club field I would be very tempted, as would many viewers who would never have heard of article this, that or the other so we are on a hiding to nothing here. Nothing whatsoever stopping anyone from buying one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, SIMON CRAGG said: Trouble is, we all get tarred with the same brush. Remember what recently put modelling in a bad light in the first place?. "Drones....Airport anybody?". CAA, Article 16, RCC etc. etc. Anyway, time to move on. This view seems to be stated repeatedly on this forum, but as the BMFA have pointed out in their own webinar and education materials many times (I'll try and dig these out in a second), it's not true that these regulations were triggered or accelerated by Gatwick or indeed any other "drone incident". The driver of all the new regs introduced in recent years globally is the commercial exploitation of the low level airspace - this goes all the way back to the RIGA agreement of 2015. EDIT - Watch the first section of this video where Dave Phipps directly refers to the regs being focussed on enablement of the commercial drone industry (fist 10-15 mis worth): Here's a previous post on that subject that has extracts from that; the whole thread has some good discussion about the origins of the most recent regulation changes and what is likely in the future. Edited January 10, 2023 by MattyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Commercial exploitation as here. Glad my flying clubs are in a fairly unpopulated part of the country, but obviously compulsory electronic conspicuity is not far off… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) It makes no odds whether the ultimate primary reason for increased regulation is due to commercialisation of the low level airspace for delivery drone operation, that does not mitigate against the problems which are caused due to model flyers, who have operated with no major issues for over a hundred years. being lumped together with an entirely different and hugely more intrusive and risky aerial operations by drones. Couple that with the high proportion of drone operative who are using the drone primarily as a tool for obtaining video and still images and have close to zero interest in any flying hobby, or airmanship and you have a problem. In the USA the heavy hand of the FAA in enacting legislation limiting the freedom of operation of model aircraft was definitely contributed to by the high profile rogue activity of FPV-equipped drones and "airplanes" (sic) operated by folks such as the Black Sheep activists. Even if the prime aim is to commercialise that airspace, those rogue activities exacerbate the reaction to the perceived risk of those operations. Attempting to embrace, make excuses for such outrageous and illegal operation and bring them into a larger tent is simply wrong IMO - they should be called out and excluded as unacceptable - as it the case for this particular flaunting of the rules, endangering the BBMF Hurricane. Totally unacceptable, inexcusable and as model flyers we should be seeking to distance ourselves from such BVLOS operations - that is largely where the problems lie. Edited January 10, 2023 by leccyflyer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, MattyB said: EDIT - Watch the first section of this video where Dave Phipps directly refers to the regs being focussed on enablement of the commercial drone industry (first 10-15 mins worth): Update - There is another section later in the video at around 57.30 where Cliff Whittaker explains how we ended up here; it is an excellent explanation of the factors that led to the current regs, inclduing the commercial drivers that led the the EASA regs on which the eventual UK ones have been based. Edited January 10, 2023 by MattyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Do we really think that a normal drone would actually down a Hurricane? Surely not. Wasn't it the Hurricane that ( some) Battle of Britain pilots favoured because it could withstand lots of damage from Nazi guns yet still make it home? Edited January 10, 2023 by kc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: ...Attempting to embrace, make excuses for such outrageous and illegal operation and bring them into a larger tent is simply wrong IMO - they should be called out and excluded as unacceptable - as it the case for this particular flaunting of the rules, endangering the BBMF Hurricane. Totally unacceptable, inexcusable and as model flyers we should be seeking to distance ourselves from such BVLOS operations - that is largely where the problems lie. I don't see anybody in this thread making excuses for the transgressor. I did see multiple people in this and the other thread calling for corporal punishment to be administered for a crime that the statistics show is orders of magnitude lower risk to third parties compared to something like speeding. That's not "distancing ourselves" or "calling it out", it's going well beyond that to a place that I don't believe is either acceptable or helps us in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, MattyB said: I don't see anybody in this thread making excuses for the transgressor. I did see multiple people in this and the other thread calling for corporal punishment to be administered for a crime that the statistics show is orders of magnitude lower risk to third parties compared to something like speeding. That's not "distancing ourselves" or "calling it out", it's going well beyond that to a place that I don't believe is either acceptable or helps us in the long term. I didn't see a single call for corporal punishment to be administered. I did see a warning that if this guy turns out to be a member of a national association that could have implications for all of us though, which is a good illustration of the dangers of lumping together this sort of Beyond Visual Line of Sight operation with normal model flying if such a thing should come to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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