The Big Question ?

[Piers Bowlan]

5 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

The Buckminster rules say nothing about the need for a cert to allow you to fly. All flying will be ‘controlled’ by the flight line manager (in most instances me) so it will be the flight line manager’s responsibility to determine safe flying. This event centres around having fun so as long as pilots fly safely and don’t endanger themselves, others or property then all is good.

I emailed Manny Williamson last week regarding this point and Ron is correct. ‘The flight line will be supervised so models below 7.5kg can be flown without an ‘A’ cert.’ It follows that above 7.5kg you do.

I will try and get along to the event but it is quite a hike from Dorset.

[RICHARD WILLS]

14 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

 

I stand corrected, you sure about over 7kg though Ron ?

 

John's comment reminds me of one of my favourite jokes at the moment . 

 

I decided to buy some orthopedic shoes . 

I didnt think they would work . 

But I stand corrected . 😬

[leccyflyer]

IIRC the BMFA advice is that you really should have a "B" certificate - or the LMA equivalent - to fly models over 7.5kg and that they are also subject to different implementations of Article 16 - that's irrespective of flying site, so I wouldn't have thought that Bucksminster was any different.

[Ron Gray]

Over 25Kg is LMA territory as stated in the Bucko rules but there is nothing to say you have to have a B to fly models over 7.5Kg, it would be a stupid rule if it was in place.

[GrumpyGnome]

Must admit I thought the only impact of a weight in excess of 7.5Kg was that you are restricted to 400 feet, unless your site has a permanent, or temporary exemption.........

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

16 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Direct from the 'Flying' part of the Bucko info:

 

6. FLYING RULES – GENERAL

All pilots are responsible for lawful operation.

All pilots must show proof of BMFA or equivalent liability insurance if requested to do so.

Specific rules will be implemented and briefed for individual events as appropriate.

All pilots/visitors must check in at reception prior to commencing flying (unless alternative arrangements are in place for the day).

All pilots should familiarise themselves with site layout/operating rules prior to flying.

Pilots must observe the specified ‘dead airspace’ for each flightline/pilots box.

Flightline/pilots box in use for R/C flying will be designated/established at the start of each flying day but may be subject to change to reflect changes in wind direction/operating conditions/additional usage.

Vehicles are not to be taken out onto flightlines unless with specific permission from Event Organiser, Flightline Controller, or duty staff member.

All rubbish and debris must be removed from the flight line and flying area.

Damaged/scrap lithium polymer batteries must be disposed of appropriately, do not place them in general waste bins, seek guidance from duty staff member or remove from site completely.

When mixed activity is taking place, it is expected that all parties will communicate effectively to ensure safe practice and best utilisation of facilities.

The General Flying rules and principles detailed in the BMFA Members Handbooks apply at the BMFA National Centre.

 

Regarding weight, the only reference I can find is to over 25Kg, apart from the times of flying of which the only one that may affect us (not likely too) is this one:

 

Note *** Sundays have a stated finish time of 5.00pm for IC operations – for aircraft over 7.5kg and aircraft powered by gas turbines it is 4.00pm.

 

Rule 3 suggests, the rule on the day is down to the organiser/superviser, Rons given that.

Would assume they've a 400ft exemption in place given the glider/jet days held there.

[gillyg1]

"What a load of malarky"

Crypto only mate 

🤔🤔🤔🤔

[leccyflyer]

14.13  Models Between 7.5 kg and 25 kg – General (Large Models)

(a)  Any model aircraft (that is, either power fixed-wing, glider or helicopter) with a maximum take-off mass (MTOM) between 7.5 Kg and 25 Kg may be operated within the terms of our Article 16 Authorisation.

(b)   Pilots of large radio control models should be aware that such models may have different operating characteristics to smaller models, several of which may not be initially apparent.

The greater mass and inertia of the large model, its generally more robust (less compliant) structure and the differences in aerodynamic efficiency of larger flight surfaces can mean handling characteristics nearer to full size aircraft than to models. You may be caught out if you are not aware of this.

You may also have visual perception problems caused by the size of the model. This usually takes the form of the aircraft being much further away than you think and can cause positioning problems in flight and danger on landing due to the large ‘swept' area on the approach. Be aware of this problem, especially when flying at low level.

(c)  When constructing the model ensure that all parts have adequate strength for the task they perform. Pay special attention to the way in which wing load stresses are transferred between the wing structure and the fuselage. Tailplane members, if detachable, should have a positive lock to their mounting so that they cannot be shed in flight.

(d)  Never use long unsupported control rods to the control surfaces or plastic clevis connectors as control forces will be high. Wherever possible each aileron should have its own servo and the elevator should preferably have two independent servos with either (a) mechanical interconnection so that either can drive the control surface (with reduced movement) should the other fail or (b) each servo should drive one half of the elevator through separate pushrods.

(e)  Pay particular attention to the state of the battery and the switch harness. Ensure that the batteries in both the model and the transmitter have adequate capacity for the flight to be undertaken and are fully charged for each flying session. Don’t expect a standard receiver battery pack to cope with the demands of high power servos and large control forces. Loss of battery power is the most frequent cause of system failure. There are commercial battery back-up systems available and circuits have been published for similar systems. These should be seriously considered if overall servo current drain is likely to be very high.

(f)   A radio fail-safe device must be fitted and operational to all models over 7.5 Kg. Remember that the purpose of the device is not to land the model but to prevent it from flying away in the event of radio failure. You should test it regularly as part of your pre-flight checks.

(h)  It is recommended that all ‘large model' pilots should hold the BMFA ‘B' certificate or a similar qualification (e.g. SAA Silver Wings or LMA Proficiency Test), and should ensure that both adequate third party insurance is operational and that all flights made comply with our Article 16 Authorisation.

(i)   Only operate large models at appropriate sites which allows safe separation distances from uninvolved people to be maintained in accordance with our Article 16 Authorisation.

(j) Above all always fly sensibly, safely and within your own limits.

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Must admit I thought the only impact of a weight in excess of 7.5Kg was that you are restricted to 400 feet, unless your site has a permanent, or temporary exemption.........

That's an amendment to our Article 16 dispensation, but another requirement is that all models over 7.5kg must be fitted with a functional fail-safe. That shouldn't be a problem these days and it's very sensible to do so, but it is certainly a mandatory requirement, wheras the "B" test is a recommendation, according to the BMFA Handbook.

[Ron Gray]

The rules for flying at the NFC have just been updated and whilst I may not agree with all at least it is now clear what the requirements are.

[Eric Robson]

18 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

He doesn’t look to be that successful. 🫣

Actually he was successful when we had to repair the electric fence. Two of us repairing while 3 kept the cows off the strip 

[Paul Johnson 4]

On 04/09/2024 at 17:38, Eric Robson said:

Actually he was successful when we had to repair the electric fence. Two of us repairing while 3 kept the cows off the strip 

I thought he was awaiting his turn for a hair cut...

[Paul Johnson 4]

On 04/09/2024 at 17:38, Eric Robson said:

when we had to repair the electric fence

I think that's shocking........

[Paul Johnson 4]

On 03/09/2024 at 19:18, Ron Gray said:

Direct from the 'Flying' part of the Bucko info:

 

6. FLYING RULES – GENERAL

All pilots are responsible for lawful operation.

All pilots must show proof of BMFA or equivalent liability insurance if requested to do so.

Specific rules will be implemented and briefed for individual events as appropriate.

All pilots/visitors must check in at reception prior to commencing flying (unless alternative arrangements are in place for the day).

All pilots should familiarise themselves with site layout/operating rules prior to flying.

Pilots must observe the specified ‘dead airspace’ for each flightline/pilots box.

Flightline/pilots box in use for R/C flying will be designated/established at the start of each flying day but may be subject to change to reflect changes in wind direction/operating conditions/additional usage.

Vehicles are not to be taken out onto flightlines unless with specific permission from Event Organiser, Flightline Controller, or duty staff member.

All rubbish and debris must be removed from the flight line and flying area.

Damaged/scrap lithium polymer batteries must be disposed of appropriately, do not place them in general waste bins, seek guidance from duty staff member or remove from site completely.

When mixed activity is taking place, it is expected that all parties will communicate effectively to ensure safe practice and best utilisation of facilities.

The General Flying rules and principles detailed in the BMFA Members Handbooks apply at the BMFA National Centre.

 

Regarding weight, the only reference I can find is to over 25Kg, apart from the times of flying of which the only one that may affect us (not likely too) is this one:

 

Note *** Sundays have a stated finish time of 5.00pm for IC operations – for aircraft over 7.5kg and aircraft powered by gas turbines it is 4.00pm.

Ah but what happens if we have any Polish visitors?

Link

 

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Ah but what happens if we have any Polish visitors?

We ask them to speak slowly.

[leccyflyer]

2 hours ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Ah but what happens if we have any Polish visitors?

Link

 

What if half of them are flying Buchons masquerading as Hurricanes?

[RICHARD WILLS]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

What if half of them are flying Buchons masquerading as Hurricanes?

Then you would need to address them in Spanish 😉

[martin collins 1]

Anyone bringing their Warbirds Replicas BF109 to the Best of British/Laser Fly In at Buckminster, would like to have a good look at one, also the JU88, i have both in boxes waiting to get to the head of the queue. Richard, Please bring your Heinkel, i would love to see it in the flesh, i will bring my mouldings and plan with me, hopefully you can use them to make some parts from.

[Chris Walby]

Martin, feel free to have look at mine as its barely finished 🙄 or Ron's for the finished article 🙂, mind you if Ron has another close formation we might both have the same number of parts as you 🤣  

[Ron Gray]

I don't know, you ask for formation flying and that's what I do, plenty of room! Wait for Bucko!!!!!!😲

Edited September 18 by Ron Gray

[RICHARD WILLS]

5 hours ago, martin collins 1 said:

Anyone bringing their Warbirds Replicas BF109 to the Best of British/Laser Fly In at Buckminster, would like to have a good look at one, also the JU88, i have both in boxes waiting to get to the head of the queue. Richard, Please bring your Heinkel, i would love to see it in the flesh, i will bring my mouldings and plan with me, hopefully you can use them to make some parts from.

Martin , 

            I am bringing the Fw190 , Tempest , Mossie and Yak . Not sure I can get the Heinkel in as well . However , Paul Johnson is bringing his beautiful 109 , so we can have a nice chat around the subject and its future . Bring the Heinkel bits you have so we can do the same on that .

[RICHARD WILLS]

He's not coming . Or his green mate . 

Can you imagine ?...

[Ron Gray]

92?

[Chris Walby]

Has to be 42, after all it its the answer

[gillyg1]

Hi Richard

If your thinking of producing a Heinkel 111 kit, put me down for one 👍 would prefer one of these in preference to a 110.

Cheers Graham