CAA Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations Aug 2023

[Ron Gray]

3 minutes ago, GaryWebb said:

your are obsessed with the word " Potential ".

Not really but until it's definite it is only potential!

[GrumpyGnome]

Re 'personal data', GDPR should (SHOULD!) apply and the Data Protection people are happy to challenge data uses which do not adhere to the principals.  So if, for example, any data transmission includes your address, the BMFA could easily challenge this - as can an individual to be fair. 

 

All that's needed is a single piece of data, like your Op No.  Plus the GPS gubbins of course.

[GaryW]

There's also so much data the hacks of the world can get from from peoples Mobile Phones Ron.. Doesn't stop millions of people using them and buying things online or accessing their back accounts with them. and yes its only my opinion.. at this time I really dont see how Remote ID could Potentially transmit any sensitive personal data wud shud be worried about

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Being a confirmed died in the wool luddite, who owns a £20 mobile phone, has no idea what an ap is and only has a P.C coz "they" gave it me free.

What's this info you want to keep private ( Yes I know It's private) and is it at risk solely from RID ?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

“Yes dear, I’ve been hard at it re-laying the patio all day”

 

…and then she downloads the RID output from today’s sneaky session.  😬

[John Stainforth]

3 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Just goes to show, different perspectives - I haven't seen a truly genuine reason whey we should have remote ID, given a century of safely operating model aircraft without it.

Times have changed, and I think it is appropriate to adapt to these changes.

[leccyflyer]

Still haven't seen a truly genuine reason why we should have remote onboard ID though, which is the point.

[Eric Robson]

Regarding the lack of RID when the drone attacks on UK airports was happening, if anyone is going to do something illegal they are going to disable RID or use a stolen drone to do it. It's like a car thief checking to make sure the car he is stealing is taxed and insured.

 Roll on A.I as the people in control are lacking basic intelligence.

[leccyflyer]

Eric - spot on. I doubt that any of the plastic bags implicated in the "attacks" on UK airports even had their 73-digit Operator ID displayed correctly and they don;t even need a specialist tool to open them up and see inside....

[steve too]

On 07/09/2023 at 08:50, steve too said:

They will plot bar graphs.

 

A bar graph from CAP 2546. For some reason CAP 2546 brings to mind the scene on polls from Yes Minister.

 

 

[steve too]

On 08/09/2023 at 08:31, MattyB said:

Obviously if a FRIA style solution is implemented then a large scale reduction in participation becomes a lot less likely, though I do worry about cubs and associations that operate from public land today 1 they will be at the mercy of the CAA to grant the FRIA approval, and as we have seen in the US it’s highly unlikely all established sites today will be approved.

 

I doubt if the CAA will go down the registered sites route, but if they do, I wonder how much they would charge.

[steve too]

33 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Still haven't seen a truly genuine reason why we should have remote onboard ID though, which is the point.

 

The reasons are at the beginning of ASD-STAN's introduction to remote ID (and various other documents). We may not agree with the reasons, but they have been published.

[steve too]

On 01/09/2023 at 21:55, MattyB said:

There is nothing on the LMA site that I can see

 

Not RID, but I have just noticed that GPS data loggers are required for 25+kg models.

[Cuban8]

13 hours ago, GaryWebb said:

 So far from talking to people and reading all your previous posts & comments I'm still yet to see a truly real genuine reason why we should'nt have remote ID

How about.....RID on a LOS R/C model aeroplane achieves absolutely nothing.

[Martin Dance 1]

The CAA with their 'call for input' are clearly attempting to gather data and opinion that will help them make decisions about the future use of UK airspace. This is perfectly reasonable. There is a view that we are going to witness an explosion in the use of remotely piloted drones in the lower airspace. I would question just how big that explosion is going to be. I suspect it may be a damp squib. Clearly the CAA as a responsible organization has to manage these developments to ensure everyones safety. Any system that is developed muist work in real time and the data being available to all airspace users. There's the challenge. I suspect that one feature will be to reduce the amount of location data that is being transmitted at anyone time. Most model flying takes place from fixed locations whether it is a club site where numerous flyers operate or a lone flier operating from a friendly farmers field or a local park. It should be easily possible to identify these locations and mark them on a map. Now the drone operator will be aware of sites where other lower airspace users operate and take that into account in flight planning. This leaves the issue of drone operators who don't operate from fixed sites.,For example there are a number of You Tube content creators who regularly use camera drones to provide aerial views of the subject of there videos. Clearly they need to be 'conspicuos' . So transmitting some form of ID to alert other lower airspace users of their presence. The form of RID being introduced in the USA doesn't do this it simply transmits origin present location, speed and operator ID to enforcement agencies on the ground it doesn't as far as I can see help eith real time airspace management. So my question is. Is there any measurable benefit in terms of airspace management and safety in implementing RID for most recreational users of the lower airspace? Iwould suggest there is not, in fact it could provide an impediment to safety.

[GrumpyGnome]

54 minutes ago, steve too said:

 

Not RID, but I have just noticed that GPS data loggers are required for 25+kg models.

Well that's pointless.  Log data to your own SD card.......... 

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, steve too said:

 

I doubt if the CAA will go down the registered sites route, but if they do, I wonder how much they would charge.

Why do you doubt that?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66742698?fbclid=IwAR1CM7aFUg9TymjsePuacUA_v4hzWZ_5lx1lQgd_BcGvZ-FlN5wFb98-Z-g

[Mike T]

Cunning.  It's for the NHS so automatically gets Joe Public well on-side.  It's then but a small step to imposing further blanket restrictions in the interests of security, jobs, borders, etc.

 

This is one instance where RID, if used on 'hobbyist' drones or model aircraft, would obviate the need for blanket airspace restrictions, assuming the commercial lower airspace operators employed sufficiently intelligent collision avoidance systems.  I don't think that it's unreasonable that this be demanded of them.  They are, after all, the interlopers into 'our' airspace.

[Outrunner]

1 hour ago, Mike T said:

This is one instance where RID, if used on 'hobbyist' drones or model aircraft, would obviate the need for blanket airspace restrictions, assuming the commercial lower airspace operators employed sufficiently intelligent collision avoidance systems.  I don't think that it's unreasonable that this be demanded of them.  They are, after all, the interlopers into 'our' airspace.

But if you are are on a  BMFA or similar site that is known then there is no need for a RID as it will be registered site to avoid at all times.

[Cuban8]

5 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66742698?fbclid=IwAR1CM7aFUg9TymjsePuacUA_v4hzWZ_5lx1lQgd_BcGvZ-FlN5wFb98-Z-g

I'm sorry, but this is simply absurd. Interesting to note the £800,000 of public money for the trial.................nice work if you can get it. Would finance quite a few blood bikers and other two wheeled emergency couriers between hospitals in the trial area and I suggest, more reliably, better payloads and with very little difference to transit times.

Not convinced at all.

 

The net zero zealots have already been at it down in my neck of the woods..............https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19852034.mid-south-essex-drones-reduce-carbon-footprint/

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Cuban8

[steve too]

6 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66742698

 

The airspace change request for this. Interesting to see that Zipline are involved.

 

Quote

Apian and Zipline would like stakeholders to be aware that they are supportive of the UK’s DfT and CAA Airspace Modernisation Strategy, and do not see Temporary Danger Areas as a long term solution but rather a stepping stone to integrated operations within the airspace.

 

[Zflyer]

Interesting article regarding the drone delivery and 'grab of airspace'. Thing is are they are delivering stuff to the NHS , in which case is the pharmacy located at the take off point or  does stuff have to be delivered there first.

OR is this a concept experiment in which case the whole of the UK would be a no fly zone for models, light aircraft, handgliders, micro lights etc and yes I know that this was the very reason RID is being proposed.

The funding provided by the state? should be reclaimable if they get the go ahead. A proper trial would be to have a minimum of 60 up in the air at the same time leaving and travelling to assorted points within the corridor. Then it could be seen how they avoid one another. If they are using RID to aid avoidance then any company using airspace occupied by models, light aircraft, handgliders, micro lights etc should have their RID equipment purchased and supplied by the commercial operator.

They are invading airspace already in use and if the governments intends licensing and thereby generating an income seems only fair that the operators also shell out to the current authorised users.

Just a thought

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Funding returned, that would be a novelty.

Thought link was of interest because other air users have got the hump as well.

Wait till they build the 50 new hospitals, the skys will be awash with delivery drones. 😉

[David Elam]

This video was produced 8 years ago. It shows the value of drones and what help they can provide in an emergency. Let's face it, most of our flying sites are in remote places so this technology should be embraced by us, hopefully while still allowing us to continue enjoying our hobby without too much restriction.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by David Elam