john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 "Plans" for a battery building site at Barnby Dun Doncaster, old power station site. Battery fires and putting them out, I would assume means of dealing with them is being worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said: "Plans" for a battery building site at Barnby Dun Doncaster, old power station site. Battery fires and putting them out, I would assume means of dealing with them is being worked on. Depends on what battery tech they eventually choose really. You don’t really need lithium for these big static jobs and flow battery’s like this recent site in China use quite benign and cheap chemistry. China Flow Battery comissioned HTH idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 No axe to grind in either direction, but just another for excuse for the risk adverse, knee jerk over zealous safety fanatic's to inch further forwards! We have two multistory carparks with EV charges at ground level, then the plan was to move them all to the roofs. Today the talk was to cancel that project and move all the EV charges to a ground level open air carpark with extra extra wide spacing. How many cars in the UK, how many catch fire when parked up....what's the risk and how many people die on UK roads per day? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 How many people die on the UK roads a day ? Too many, but thanks to the safety fanatics, a lot less than there could be, clunk click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 John, not all "cost benefit Analysis" result in no action. Many do result in implementation that does improve safety, from both accidents and deaths. I remember Harold Wilson support to zone toughened windscreens, where it was already known that laminated screens were safer. Eventually the decision was changed. Yet Barbra Castle did champion the introduction of seat belts, it took years later before it became law, to fit and wear them. Even though Sweden had shown that +30% improvement in survival rate in car crashes. If warranted, I am sure that eventually change will come. The fire in Luton has intrigued me. Initially it was stated that the fire started with a SUV. This changed to a Diesel vehicle. Transitory a news item mentioned the fire started in a vehicle containing a lithium battery. Not much later the identification reverted to a Diesel Vehicle. Today it has become a SUV Diesel. I just wonder if the vehicle was something like a BMW X5e? I can imagine that there will be PR departments who do not want any association with Lithium type batteries. My only remaining question, is whose specific PR department, for what reason. Will we ever hear, or read, which model of vehicle was the initiator? The fire department spokesperson seem to quickly identify the vehicle, even though the by the time of arrival it appears the fire was massive. The fire in a Manchester multi story, from memory took some time to identify where they believed the fire originated finally including the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Erfolg said: ...The fire in Luton has intrigued me. Initially it was stated that the fire started with a SUV. This changed to a Diesel vehicle. Transitory a news item mentioned the fire started in a vehicle containing a lithium battery. Not much later the identification reverted to a Diesel Vehicle. Today it has become a SUV Diesel. I just wonder if the vehicle was something like a BMW X5e? I can imagine that there will be PR departments who do not want any association with Lithium type batteries. My only remaining question, is whose specific PR department, for what reason. Will we ever hear, or read, which model of vehicle was the initiator? The fire department spokesperson seem to quickly identify the vehicle, even though the by the time of arrival it appears the fire was massive. The fire in a Manchester multi story, from memory took some time to identify where they believed the fire originated finally including the vehicle. There are plenty of videos online that appear to show the first vehicle to go up as a Range Rover Evoque. That means that it conclusively isn't a pure BEV, but there are some mild diesel hybrid versions that feature a small 200WH battery. Consensus seems to be that this is unlikely to have been the case given it looks like it was a car that predates the MHEV version, but the footage is pretty grainy. However it should be easy for the authorities to confirm for sure given the footage shows the location which will mean the owner can be identified. Edited October 12, 2023 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Erf - perhaps the owner was an aeromodeller with LiPos in the boot? As has been stated previously, the main problem in these cases appears to be fuel spread from rupturing tanks. Around 85% of modern cars have plastic tanks - perhaps these should be banned from high density parking? A recent study by US insurer, AutoinsuranceEZ found that hybrid carshad the worst fire record, while EVs were the least likely type of car to catch fire. Hybrid cars had 3474.5 fires per 100,000 sale; petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales and EVs had just 25.1 fires per 100,000 sales.19 Jun 2023 Perhaps regularly spaced firewalls and separated drainage would be a solution to preventing such fires in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 There's another video from the front which shows the number plate, its a 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel, note it was on personalised plates. Video does show a pool fire underneath the vehicle, so most likely a fuel leak onto a hot surface. Video also shows two handheld extinguishers nearby so somebody had a go at putting it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said: There's another video from the front which shows the number plate, its a 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel, note it was on personalised plates. Video does show a pool fire underneath the vehicle, so most likely a fuel leak onto a hot surface. Video also shows two handheld extinguishers nearby so somebody had a go at putting it out. Thanks - footage found... Plate is E10 EFL according to the taker of the video, which makes it a V6 diesel.... Edited October 12, 2023 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I thought that the vehicle was on the top deck of the multi story car park. I am surprised that the driver of the SUV has not been approached or the people with the fire extinguisher for comment, it appears to have been on the move, when it caught fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Only just twigged, the video is the way that there was such certainty regarding it was a diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I’ve heard (from a source at the airport) that the extinguishers failed to operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malmaz Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) My car was parked in this car park on level 3 Parked up on Sat 7th oct, we was on holiday in Majorca and was in informed by Luton airport car parks about the fire, me and my wife are totally besides ourselves over this. We arrived back at Luton yesterday lunchtime to see for ourselves the destruction we our absolutely gutted by this, we received another update from Luton this morning that building is unsafe and they deem all 1405 cars in the car park will be unsalvageable. 😧 Edited October 15, 2023 by malmaz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Very sorry to hear you were a victim of this, just hope you (and the other 1400-odd folks) can get insurance etc. sorted as quickly as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 That’s horrible luck Malmaz but I believe your insurance company should assist you prior to any negotiation with the interested parties - of which there are several, including the airport operators, car parking company, builders, architects etc. - to recover their costs. This thread has now become rather side tracked by an issue caused by a diesel car. I wonder if it would be better to split off the car park fire into a new topic? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 20 hours ago, malmaz said: ....we received another update from Luton this morning that building is unsafe and they deem all 1405 cars in the car park will be unsalvageable. 😧 Sorry for the impact this has had on you @malmaz, very unfortunate. This news that all cars inside are going to be unsavageable is going to make things interesting in terms of making the site safe. Those that are burnt out at this point are not too much of a problem, but what about those cars (EVs and ICE) that are still intact? Bulldosing the site with them inside would appear to be a very dangerous undertaking, as there could be a secondary fire at that point. Perhaps they will have to siphon all the fuel out of the ICE cars and discharge the EVs to zero somehow before they destroy the car park? They are going to need a lot of these to achieve the latter... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 If the Liverpool Arena car park fire in December 2017 is any precedence it is going to take a long time. The risk assessment & preparatory work took 11 months before they started to remove the vehicles. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, John Lee said: If the Liverpool Arena car park fire in December 2017 is any precedence it is going to take a long time. The risk assessment & preparatory work took 11 months before they started to remove the vehicles. Wow. I definitely won’t be parking at Luton next time I fly from there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 20 hours ago, malmaz said: morning that building is unsafe and they deem all 1405 cars in the car park will be unsalvageable Am i reading that right? The building is unsafe so they are not allowing the removal of even undamaged cars? That seems rather stupid. It must be possible to shore up sections adjacent to the fire and get the undamaged cars out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I’ve noticed the following on my insurer’s website (Aviva) if it’s of any comfort Malmaz - hopefully most reputable insurers will be taking the same attitude. We are working with the emergency services and our priority is to provide whatever assistance we can to customers who may have been affected by the fire at Luton Airport. In the first instance, car insurance customers can call us on 0345 030 6925 for assistance or to report a claim. If your car has been affected by the fire at Luton Airport Terminal 2 car park, we will waive your excess and your NCD will be unaffected. We would advise customers to check the latest news alerts for more information about their travel plans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malmaz Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: I’ve noticed the following on my insurer’s website (Aviva) if it’s of any comfort Malmaz - hopefully most reputable insurers will be taking the same attitude. We are working with the emergency services and our priority is to provide whatever assistance we can to customers who may have been affected by the fire at Luton Airport. In the first instance, car insurance customers can call us on 0345 030 6925 for assistance or to report a claim. If your car has been affected by the fire at Luton Airport Terminal 2 car park, we will waive your excess and your NCD will be unaffected. We would advise customers to check the latest news alerts for more information about their travel plans My insurance have been in touch with me this morning and have made an offer for my car, which I have declined, they would not pay any compensation for my daughter to come and collect us from the airport, a 250 mile roundtrip. Also my NCD will drop from 12years to 4years on my next renewal. I mentioned that article Martin, to my Insurance and they said it was the Big company's that were doing this and They might follow, So much for customer service, Kick you in the teeth when your down in luck, comes mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Insurance is a minefield - I feel that it pays to use an insurer with a reputation to protect rather than go for the cheapest quote - and to be totally open in any dealings with them. Perhaps try stressing that you are surprised that they aren’t “big enough” to want to build a reputation for excellence and that they will probably have a case to recover their costs from the car park operators or even the insurer of the Range Rover so you shouldn’t be made to suffer the consequences of a loss totally outside of your control. Be careful not to make it sound like a threat as you want them to work with you. Long term, other car owners may be similarly affected so there might be a possibility of some sort of “class action” against those responsible for the fire and its spread to recover your losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 25 minutes ago, malmaz said: My insurance have been in touch with me this morning and have made an offer for my car, which I have declined, they would not pay any compensation for my daughter to come and collect us from the airport, a 250 mile roundtrip. Also my NCD will drop from 12years to 4years on my next renewal. I mentioned that article Martin, to my Insurance and they said it was the Big company's that were doing this and They might follow, So much for customer service, Kick you in the teeth when your down in luck, comes mind. Why are you claiming on your own insurance? This would be a no fault claim as the car was just minding its own business as you sunned yourself half the world away. so it should all be on the other parties insurance. I suppose the only difficult part is working out who is responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Precisely. I think it will be a case of claim on own policy but expect full retrieval post facto, though compared with the removal of thousands of tons of contaminated concrete it might be a stroll. BTW Jon, the rebar has clearly melted in places so I wouldn't go anywhere near it and "shoring up" would be tantamount to a partial rebuild. BTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I was under the impression that only one end/side/corner actually fell down. Although i must admit, there are no photos i can find showing a wide angle to see the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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