Enforcement of model flying regulations

[GrumpyGnome]

3 hours ago, MattyB said:

 

My instinct is to agree, but the wording in that proposal is very specific in stating Op ID would be classified as personal information under UK GDPR, so perhaps that is the legal advice they have received? 

The current definition is basically any data that relates to an individual.

 

My real point is that I don't believe anybody can identify you from the data in question.

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

The current definition is basically any data that relates to an individual.

 

My real point is that I don't believe anybody can identify you from the data in question.

 

I agree, I don't see how anyone could identify you as an individual from the Op ID alone. TBH I am more concerned by the launch position data, which does strike me as a potentially dangerous piece of information to give to the public unencrypted, though not as dangerous as it would be in the US...!

[Cuban8]

4 hours ago, Keith Billinge said:

I still think they are using the massive sledgehammer tor crack a non-existant nut. What is the actual problem they are trying to solve?

Are we regularly crashing into manned aircraft and causing injury?

Are we toy plane enthusiasts causing trouble?

Are we threatening to topple governments?

Was a real aircraft ever really threatened by a model plane?

NO; we are a bunch of mainy middle aged and older blokes who stand in a cold, muddy field in the countryside playing toy planes........ We have a history of 100+years of safe flying.

 

Every now and then, we put a model in a tree, or crash it into said farmers field, or have a mid-air collision resulting in some foam snow. That's all the excitement we can stand.

 

Sometimes somebody with a sutable model will feed their hands into the propellers and cause themselves an injury. That's the level of risk we should be mitigating.

 

Swapping an expensive magic box in and out each and every time I fly a different model? Nah!

It's my model and until the CAA thought they could make some money out of me they weren't interested.

I've written my Flyer ID on my models and that should be sufficient.........Its a toy!

 

KB

 

 

 

 

Very nicely put. The situation as it is, as any reasonable person would see it.

 

 

[MattyB]

7 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

Very nicely put. The situation as it is, as any reasonable person would see it.

 

The problem is that we are not dealing with reasonable people - it's politicians and lobbyists that are at the heart of this. The CAA are to an extent the fall guy IMO - they provide a degree of insulation between disgruntled members of the public and UK Gov, and essentially just have to do what they are told. I am sure they know the great UAS delivery drone myth is exactly that (at least for the next 10 years), but they aren't really in a position to challenge politicians who at the end of the day are their boss.

[Philip Lewis 3]

2 hours ago, john davidson 1 said:

T o change the theme slightly Is any one up to date on the present situation with with full size light planes? I used to subscribe to Pilot magazine and they were up in arms about transponders, many old aircraft have no electrical system to power them , relying on good old eyesight and landing and take off procedure etc. Some did carry hand held radios though.

Worth giving this a look, 7 mins onwards, seems it's a real mess to me currently.

[GaryW]

Can I say which I forgot to make it known earlier ,,, as it shows in the thread title, the thread was created by me,,, In actually fact it was one of the moderators that created this thread in order to seperate of topic posts and comment from another thread into a new seperate thread being this one...

 

Can I then now ask that the thread Title be edited and my name be unattached from the title as the creator and changed to the person/moderator that actually created this thread which if i remember correctly this thread was created by @Martin Harris - Moderator   although apologies if my memory fails me and it was created by one of the other admins/moderators other than Martin

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by GaryWebb

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Hi Gary,

 

Although this topic was created at your request as a way to tidy up the CAA price increase thread started by you, I've managed to find a way to attribute its creation to me, so I hope this will help in some way.

 

There's nothing sinister here - when posts are split away from a thread, the thread is attributed to the earliest post in the new topic.

[Arthur Harris]

8 hours ago, Erfolg said:

This thread demonstrates the threats/ restrictions or changes to model flying could occur both specifically or yet to be formulated. It is now that we need our representatives to both be alert to, and present arguments to authorities, that realistically can and should be reasonably resisted.

 

Personally I am sometimes taken aback, when some take a view that nothing materially is being changed or imposed, when it is obviously the case.

 

I accept that some will have no objection, which is a little different to arguing all will be remaining the same.

 

In this specific case, there does appear to be long reaching implications, in addition to the immediate, yet does not necessarily have to be the case. The feel is one where Salami Slicing is potentially being contemplated.

 

I hope that our representatives are alert to the issue and hope that already started engagement in the political processes. I imagine that those involved will recognise that not only is the fate of the  hobby potentially at stake, over this, or future issues, so are the jobs of many, from retailers, distributers, manufacturers and of course those engaged in our representation.

 

All the same, the hobby may just continue.

 

This is what I am thinking I shall do, if officialdom continues to encroach on our hobby (Because I don't really want to give up flying model planes):

1. Stick with a club to see if they get some concessions

2. Join with some others and buy some land and disaffiliate with any official model flying. Out of sight, out of mind. Land is only about £20 thousand per acre, for 100 people that is only £200.

[GaryW]

37 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Hi Gary,

 

Although this topic was created at your request as a way to tidy up the CAA price increase thread started by you, I've managed to find a way to attribute its creation to me, so I hope this will help in some way.

 

There's nothing sinister here - when posts are split away from a thread, the thread is attributed to the earliest post in the new topic.

 

Do forgive me if u thought i wud suggest anything sinister... perish the thought but thanks for you assist all the same

[leccyflyer]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

This is what I am thinking I shall do, if officialdom continues to encroach on our hobby (Because I don't really want to give up flying model planes):

1. Stick with a club to see if they get some concessions

2. Join with some others and buy some land and disaffiliate with any official model flying. Out of sight, out of mind. Land is only about £20 thousand per acre, for 100 people that is only £200.

How do you imagine that would mean that you would not have to abide by the regulations in place?

[Learner]

6 hours ago, Arthur Harris said:

 

2. Join with some others and buy some land and disaffiliate with any official model flying. Out of sight, out of mind. Land is only about £20 thousand per acre, for 100 people that is only £200.

You really think thats viable? Amazing!!

I wonder why nobodys thought of that before!

Good luck with that😂

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Learner

[FlyinFlynn]

30 minutes ago, Learner said:

You really think thats viable? Amazing!!

I wonder why nobodys thought of that before!

Good luck with that😂

 

 

Some clubs have been left a lot more than that in a will and gone on to buy a flying field.

[Ron Gray]

7 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

How do you imagine that would mean that you would not have to abide by the regulations in place?

I think he means it would be a hotspot for illegal flying.

[Learner]

1 hour ago, FlyinFlynn said:

Some clubs have been left a lot more than that in a will and gone on to buy a flying field.

The clue is in a lot more!

Not many clubs have a 100 members these days and an acre certainly wouldn't be big enough!

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Learner

[steve too]

17 hours ago, john davidson 1 said:

To change the theme slightly Is any one up to date on the present situation with with full size light planes?

 

CAP 2498A has a details of the state of play a year ago. Another source of information would be the Flyer forum where they have a topic on conspicuity etc from time to time.

[steve too]

9 hours ago, Arthur Harris said:

... Join with some others and buy some land ...

 

Switzerland is probably your best bet this side of the Med. IIRC they passed a law protecting recreational flyers.

[David Elam]

10 hours ago, Arthur Harris said:

This is what I am thinking I shall do, if officialdom continues to encroach on our hobby (Because I don't really want to give up flying model planes):

1. Stick with a club to see if they get some concessions

2. Join with some others and buy some land and disaffiliate with any official model flying. Out of sight, out of mind. Land is only about £20 thousand per acre, for 100 people that is only £200.

I presume you're familiar with 'planning permission' and 'change of use'.

[Arthur Harris]

9 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

How do you imagine that would mean that you would not have to abide by the regulations in place?

 

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

I think he means it would be a hotspot for illegal flying.

I envision it would only be last resort if public model flying was banned completely. It wouldn't be illegal model flying; it would just be model flying in a private club. Electric only, no flying above 400 feet, safety paramount so Part A would be a minimum requirement for members.  Change of use wouldn't apply, as permission would not be sought.

It's only an idea; may never come to pass- on the other hand, it may already be going on. We wouldn't know, would we? 

It's only an idea, shoot it down if you think it would be impractical.

[Dickw]

10 hours ago, Arthur Harris said:

This is what I am thinking I shall do, if officialdom continues to encroach on our hobby (Because I don't really want to give up flying model planes):

1. Stick with a club to see if they get some concessions

2. Join with some others and buy some land and disaffiliate with any official model flying. Out of sight, out of mind. Land is only about £20 thousand per acre, for 100 people that is only £200.

I belong to a club that owns its own 5 acre flying field.

a) 5 acres is not all that big for a flying field.

b) we still have to follow all the regulations.

 

Dick

[Futura57]

Maybe indoor flying is the future. Just saying.

 

Small electric models of course. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Futura57

[GrumpyGnome]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

It wouldn't be illegal model flying; it would just be model flying in a private club.

 

Change of use wouldn't apply, as permission would not be sought.

Model flying "... in a private club... " is subject to exactly the same tegulations ss flying anywhere else...... unless you build an enormous dome over it and then it's indoor flying....

 

If you don't apply for change of use, I think kou'd be breaking some more regulations/laws/bye-laws.

 

As already pointed out, you'll need much more thsn an acre, and if you live South of, say Watford, it'll be more than £20k an acre..

[GrumpyGnome]

1 minute ago, Futura57 said:

Maybe indoor flying is the future. Just saying.

Yeah, not sure there's a venue big enough for my ic planes....

[MattyB]

17 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

 

I envision it would only be last resort if public model flying was banned completely. It wouldn't be illegal model flying; it would just be model flying in a private club. Electric only, no flying above 400 feet, safety paramount so Part A would be a minimum requirement for members.  Change of use wouldn't apply, as permission would not be sought.

It's only an idea; may never come to pass- on the other hand, it may already be going on. We wouldn't know, would we? 

It's only an idea, shoot it down if you think it would be impractical.

 

5 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Model flying "... in a private club... " is subject to exactly the same regulations as flying anywhere else...... unless you build an enormous dome over it and then it's indoor flying....

 

If you don't apply for change of use, I think you'd be breaking some more regulations/laws/bye-laws.

 

As already pointed out, you'll need much more than an acre, and if you live South of, say Watford, it'll be more than £20k an acre..

 

Indeed. Under the current regs and new proposals you'd still need to be registered as a pilot and operator, and still need RID for anything over 250g. For this reason those who intend to go guerilla will save themselves the time and expense of buying land and just go flying in places where the chances of enforcement is minimal. I suspect the chances of you finding 10 members in your locale who'd support the plan you propose is extremely minimal, let alone the 100s you'd actually need to make it economically viable.

Edited December 13, 2023 by MattyB

[David Elam]

15 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said:

 

Change of use wouldn't apply, as permission would not be sought.

 

Good luck with that!

£20k/acre plus for a field. No change of use planning permission. One complaint. No flying.

[GrumpyGnome]

Final sentence would be "100+ disgruntled ex-fliers"