Direct RID/Remote RID modules.

[steve too]

1 hour ago, Philip Baker said:

Are these rid units the devices that are tracked on Flightradar 24?

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

 

Mostly ADS-B and radar. Nothing from UTM systems (yet).

Edited December 31, 2023 by steve too

[steve too]

1 hour ago, Keith Billinge said:

... But I will also be writing to my MP ...

 

I have written to my MP about the dishonesty in CAP 2610. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, he gets out of the DfT and Home Office.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Confusing thread, same posters say "No surrender" then "It's a done deal anyway" ?

 

[FlyinFlynn]

6 hours ago, steve too said:

 

What would be the point of putting a UK flier (or operator) ID in a French RID?  Do the French government accept them?

Not a snowballs chance in hell would the French accept that!    I assume Andy J was thinking the UK might adopt the same sort of requirements the EU and the US have with regards to both the info and the transmission method meaning the French firmware could be used in the UK with a UK issued ID.

 

On 30/12/2023 at 17:46, Andy J said:

Will have to get an interrogator working first to see what is actually being transmitted.

Once the device is fired up you can use any wifi enabled device to see the web page the firmware generates and the info transmitted.

[steve too]

17 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

I assume Andy J was thinking the UK might adopt the same sort of requirements the EU and the US have with regards to both the info and the transmission method meaning the French firmware could be used in the UK with a UK issued ID.

 

EU direct RIDs are ASD-STAN 4709-002. US broadcast RIDs are ASTM F3586 & F3411. French "decree of December 27, 2019" RIDs are not compatible with F3411/4709-002.

[Philip Lewis 3]

When you read articles like this you can clearly see what their aim is and I doubt that many people would disagree with it, but what I just can't understand is why they think the bad actors mentioned here would use a drone with RID/Remote RID when it's very clear to me they simply wouldn't dare risk it. They are either going to not use them or more likely find a way round it, and there is no way they are going to fit actually voluntarily fit it!

[Zflyer]

Chew on this for a moment.

I have little doubt airspace will become more controlled,now here is the issue.

People using drones for nefarious activity will not be registering or using RID. Those of us who do are on the system. Identified shopl8fters and pick pockets cannot have their pictur3s displayed in areas were they act because of Human Rights Legislation. Ssshhh 

[Keith Billinge]

If somebody wanted to introduce GPS logging and a database of where somebody was at all times when they were driving, there would be such an outcry that it'd never get passed into law. But how many people are killed in hit and run accidents?
However; if big brother wants to interfear with a few old blokes flying toy planes it's fine, even though they haven't killed anyone for ages.

Just because we haven't got a loud voice, it seems the government can do whatever they want to model flyers, just by lumping our model aeroplanes into the "Drone" category and spreading disinformation about how dangerous and hateful drones are.  Don't forget Gatwick! (That's what they will say!) despite the fact that nobody actually found any real trace of the "Drone" that shut the airport.

 

KB

[Learner]

41 minutes ago, Keith Billinge said:

However; if big brother wants to interfear with a few old blokes flying toy planes it's fine, even though they haven't killed anyone for ages

Wow what an amazing statement,I'm sure big brother will take that into account when thinking about new regs!

[Nick Cripps]

1 hour ago, Keith Billinge said:

If somebody wanted to introduce GPS logging and a database of where somebody was at all times when they were driving, there would be such an outcry that it'd never get passed into law.

 

Yet millions of people worldwide do exactly that when using their smartphone to navigate!

[Outrunner]

2 minutes ago, Nick Cripps said:

 

Yet millions of people worldwide do exactly that when using their smartphone to navigate!

You just need to have your smart phone on you, navigation not required, the millions of CCTV cameras will confirm your movement 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Some even dwell in stationary buildings, with numbers on and street names, they're trying to control us. 😉

[FlyinFlynn]

14 hours ago, steve too said:

 

EU direct RIDs are ASD-STAN 4709-002. US broadcast RIDs are ASTM F3586 & F3411. French "decree of December 27, 2019" RIDs are not compatible with F3411/4709-002.

I think you will find the French authorities don't give a stuff about your fancy quoted regulations and will, in a typically French fashion, apply the French regulations on French soil. There is not a gendarme in the world that either knows or cares about anything other than the 'decree of December 27, 2019'. The English don't seem quite as adept at conforming to international laws and regulations only when it suits them but you never know......  Until the actual format for the UK is finally decided upon there is little to be gained by arguing the toss about what is and what is not going to work. I just know the commercial offerings that are available now are a total rip-off and may well not conform when the dust settles.

 

 

[Ron Gray]

Knowing our government they may also say that only 'officially approved' devices will be allowed, making your home brewed offerings worthless! 😒

[JOHN MOSLEY 2]

So the ones made in China that will be CE marked, with nobody checking that they are actually complying with European standards. (CE) = China Export 

[FlyinFlynn]

37 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Knowing our government they may also say that only 'officially approved' devices will be allowed, making your home brewed offerings worthless! 😒

 

They are not my offerings, and so far the government from the country of their conception seem happy to accept them, it is certainly possible that  'they' in the UK might want to do that but the problem they will face is how will they be able to make that determination without individual inspection of the device (for which they will require new legislation). They wont be able to tell from the transmitted data, they are digital devices, they do not have a 'fingerprint'.

 

You can make out some of the components inside the Spektrum RID device from their sales leaflet, there is a ceramic antenna from a quectel gps module and something that looks suspiciously like a ESP32 wroom module. They haven't reinvented the wheel, everything digital these days is derived from the 'typical configuration' data supplied with every digital chip.  The most expensive item in that device is the sticky label on the front.

 

 

[Ron Gray]

Obviously this is pure speculation but if the Government / CAA get their way and force the hybrid RID system upon us isn't that a fairly unique system and not one that is already in existence?

Edited January 1 by Ron Gray

[Cuban8]

Happy New Year everyone. I was determined to take a break from all this stuff over the Christmas period - a chance to review and reflect on all things model flying.

I did come across Bruce Simpson's two YouTube videos that concerned our CAA's latest goings on and I have to say that I thought he'd summed up quite well how most model flyers will be reacting to all this stuff and perhaps we should be a little more mindful of the bureaucrats' plans. He's not a fool and knows his stuff (particularly the tech) better than those that are imposing the rules on the hobby IMHO. Not a lot I disagreed with TBH.

 I know Bruce is not everyone's cup of tea and he has gone a little OTT from time to time, and I know his health is not what is could be, so maybe he's steadying down on the rants.  If you haven't seen his two videos, I do urge you to spend some time to watch them, they seemed to be well measured and thought through with a couple of pointers to some undesirable repercussions that could well come into being and that I've not seen or heard discussed before - food for thought if nothing else. 

I won't put a link here, if you want to see what I'm on about a simple search on YT for his Xjet channel will find them.

Edited January 1 by Cuban8

[Zflyer]

Bruce does make great videos, on the CAA proposals not so much. He plays on fact thar modellers will end up paying more because commercial interests will not want to pay. Piffle, if its a tax, which it is, the government of the day will expect and pursue payment otherwise the whole thing is a none starter. Whilst i appreciate his views theylike mine and others on here are speculation. Extrapolation does not always secure the end result. All the time a clear understanding of FACT is required. 

FACT the CAA proposals are just that.

FACT no imposition has been determined.

[FlyinFlynn]

21 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Obviously this is pure speculation but if the Government / CAA get their way and force the hybrid RID system upon us isn't that a fairly unique system and not one that is already in existence?

I believe that is right Ron.  I only pursue this home built RiD because I have an interest in such things. If some form of network ID is settled upon it should still be within the reach of the DIY home builder. The addition of a sim module has already been proposed, the hardware is trivial, the firmware would need some further work as the implementation so far has not been about network comms rather about positional logging for lost model location.

 

 Another problem will arise if the UK powers that be require the transmitted info in a specific, so far, unused format, that will require a substantial re-write of the French firmware because the French format is quite deeply embedded in the firmware as it is (or new UK firmware be written). I would imagine if the requirement strayed too far from the existing format that would also mean the existing commercial hardware would require modification also, probably delaying its implementation, something I imagine, the authorities would be quite keen to avoid.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2 by FlyinFlynn
found the right price

[Ron Gray]

32 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

if the UK powers that be require the transmitted info in a specific, so far, unused format

Unfortunately, with their 'insistence' that the UK will be going down the unique hybrid route, I wouldn't be surprised if they do also require a unique format despite the fact that adopting what has already been developed would make any such transition easier (and cheaper) for the end user. Let's face it, the UK government has a history of going it alone rather than using what already exists (because we can do it better!).

Edited January 2 by Ron Gray

[Cuban8]

21 hours ago, Zflyer said:

Bruce does make great videos, on the CAA proposals not so much. He plays on fact thar modellers will end up paying more because commercial interests will not want to pay. Piffle, if its a tax, which it is, the government of the day will expect and pursue payment otherwise the whole thing is a none starter. Whilst i appreciate his views theylike mine and others on here are speculation. Extrapolation does not always secure the end result. All the time a clear understanding of FACT is required. 

FACT the CAA proposals are just that.

FACT no imposition has been determined.

Agree up to a point - but Bruce does highlight several times something that has been discussed at length on this very forum and that is the suspect nature of the data, modelling, forecasting, call it whatever you want of the rate of growth of commercial UAVs and the impact that they might (very popular word in reports and proposals BTW!) have on existing users of the airspace. CAA proposals are are very well, but at the very best they are based on guesswork on what might, (that word again) begin to happen in maybe, (dangerously close) a decade or more if at all. Tests and trials do not guarantee a practical and/or economic product or service when used in real world situations as we've seen time and time again.

 

[Zflyer]

Sadly the argument about Data is mute. There is no one with enough clout in authority, or external body able to pose the question.  Whilst as rc fliers, in particular fixed wing, have an exemplary safety record this cannot be amplified with sufficient weight.

I do not know what concerns General Aviation (GA) have on this matter, there are a number of small microlight clubs operating in the main from farm fields, in addition to established flying sites and would be good to find out. Again I have no idea of the numbers concerned in GA, i will err and say that it is an expensive hobby/pastime, and may contain individuals of such professions and perhaps high level connections that they could be raising the issue or may do so if pressed/brought to their attention.

It would certainly be in our collective interest to marry up, it may even have been done via the BMFA et.al

 

[Geoff S]

25 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Unfortunately, with their 'insistence' that the UK will be going down the unique hybrid route, I wouldn't be surprised if they do also require a unique format despite the fact that adopting what has already been developed would make any such transition easier (and cheaper) for the end user. Let's face it, the UK government has a history of going it alone rather than using what already exists (because we can do it better!).

 

Just another example of the well known 'not invented here syndrome (I've been occasionally guilty myself before I retired).  Another egregious example is the word that can't be spoken here 🙂

[Wilco Wingco]

Just think of the last major, or ant IT project, produced on behalf of the Government. Horizon?. would you trust the bunch of numpties who developed that system to control and track your hobby?. Besides do the government actually think that the criminal element in this country will conform, just like the gun laws>, Only law abiding citizens will comply and i'm sure the police or whoever will be tracking slopers on the great orme?. They cant even pick up shop lifters in the middle of town. Too many criminals not enough police.