Direct RID/Remote RID modules.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Thought I'd start a specific thread to discuss these things, many like myself know little or nothing about them.

Bare in mind I'm not advocating we have them, just understanding what they are helps.

[Rich Griff]

Let's hope the caa issue a "home build" kit and testing service for the device ?

[Outrunner]

Let's hope we never need to know anything about the wretched things.....

[EvilC57]

Funnily enough, I’ve just spotted this about the new Sky Remote ID Module on the Spektrum website this afternoon. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by EvilC57

[FlyinFlynn]

2 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

Let's hope the caa issue a "home build" kit and testing service for the device ?

Home build RID's are available, at least the info on how to build them and suitable firmware is available - IN FRANCE. We have been blighted with RID for longer than you have in the UK and some enterprising souls have come up with the goods!  I would point you towards https://github.com/fanfanlatulipe26/BaliseDGAC_GPS_Logger but it is in French and only caters for the French regulations. Once RID is mandated in the UK I would imagine similar projects would grow. It is also just a broadcast RID at present (because that is all the regulations demand) but I wouldn't imagine Mit wouldn't take too much more to add the network element to them.

 

Approx cost of all the materials needed is less than €10, which shows up the profits being made by the commercial manufacturers!

 

There are also data logger displays available to build which will display the transmitted data, approx cost €12

 

I know it's a crappy video!

 

[leccyflyer]

There probably isn't one in a hundred model flyers who would be in the market for home manufacturing such a device. So, for the vast majority they would be left to the commercially available options. The Spektrum offering is $99, which will most certainly translate to £99, given the well established modelling exchange rate. That's assuming it will be available - the link above shows that those who ordered and paid for the units have been waiting for months for them to show up.

 

There is another frequent assertion which is made, that such units are easily exchanged between models, so you'll only need one of them. Sorry, but whilst that is fine in theory, in practice it's a pain in the rear. Receivers are readily exchangeable between models and waaaaaay back that was what we used to do and it was a complete pain the as well. Likewise servos. For flyers with more than a couple of models the operational difficulties and expense would be significant. If using 4 or 6 channel small receivers then very often all of the connections are occupied, so you are looking at providing additional Y leads and suchlike to get power to the RID unit, Then you are looking at disturbing the wiring each time the unit is relocated.

[GaryW]

7 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

 

There is another frequent assertion which is made, that such units are easily exchanged between models, so you'll only need one of them. Sorry, but whilst that is fine in theory, in practice it's a pain in the rear. Receivers are readily exchangeable between models and waaaaaay back that was what we used to do and it was a complete pain the as well. Likewise servos. For flyers with more than a couple of models the operational difficulties and expense would be significant. If using 4 or 6 channel small receivers then very often all of the connections are occupied, so you are looking at providing additional Y leads and suchlike to get power to the RID unit, Then you are looking at disturbing the wiring each time the unit is relocated.

 

Forgive me here leccyflyer but thats not sufficient reason not to have remote id any more than those that proclaim some of their models do not have enough room to fit one in as small as say the spektrum sky id unit.. or others that have said they are not gonna muck about moving already installed components or modifying their installations for fit one in ..... hell I still swap receivers between models now and never find it a pain to do

[Phil Green]

39 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

...The Spektrum offering is $99

Coincidentally, the same price as the document "ASTM F3411-22a" which defines the RFID spec 🙂   (why is it not free?)

 

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I've not seen frequent claims modules are easy to swap between models, have myself asked that question though.

When your budgets limited it's an everyday thing anyway, not a biggie for me, buying an Iphones probably a deal breaker for me though.

[Geoff S]

57 minutes ago, GaryWebb said:

 

Forgive me here leccyflyer but thats not sufficient reason not to have remote id any more than those that proclaim some of their models do not have enough room to fit one in as small as say the spektrum sky id unit.. or others that have said they are not gonna muck about moving already installed components or modifying their installations for fit one in ..... hell I still swap receivers between models now and never find it a pain to do

 

So you take (say) 3 models up to the field with just one receiver and swap it to whichever model you've chosen to fly next?  That's what would seem to be necessary if you had just one RID module for all your models.

[MattyB]

Sky ID would not be compliant with the proposals as put forward by the CAA. It only does broadcast ID (e.g., local via Bluetooth), not network ID (which leverages mobile phone technology). I’m not aware of devices that would comply being available anywhere at this point, and they will certainly cost much more than the broadcast only units. However it remains possible that CAA will “listen” to us and allow only broadcast ID in the final  regs, which is std government tactics for this kind of thing (suggest something awful, then fall back to something slightly less awful but still bad, and brand it as graceful concession).

Edited December 21, 2023 by MattyB

[GaryW]

15 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

 

So you take (say) 3 models up to the field with just one receiver and swap it to whichever model you've chosen to fly next?  That's what would seem to be necessary if you had just one RID module for all your models.

 

no i swap rx's between models here before going to the field as for only having one rid unit if i did only have one it wud take me less than a minute to swap it between models,,, but as i do actually take 2 or 3 models to the field each flying session then i wud have say 3 rid units and fit them to what models i chosse to fly any time i go flying

Edited December 21, 2023 by GaryWebb

[GaryW]

8 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Sky ID would not be compliant with the proposals as put forward by the CAA. It only does broadcast ID (e.g., local via Bluetooth), not network ID (which leverages mobile phone technology). I’m not aware of any of these devices being available anywhere at this point, and they will certainly cost much more than the broadcast only units.

 

Im not disagreeing with you but as we dont yet really know whether it will be direct RID or Network RID isn't it too soon to assume it will be one or the other ... I get whats being proposed but it could actually go either way from my understanding of it

[Don Fry]

4 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

I've not seen frequent claims modules are easy to swap between models, have myself asked that question though.

When your budgets limited it's an everyday thing anyway, not a biggie for me, buying an Iphones probably a deal breaker for me though.

Remote location, read satalite phone?. That’s a biggy. 
I’ve  got one of these broadcast rids. To swap between models, disconnect from power supply, a standard servo plug. I mount it in a polystyrene slot, to hold it in place. Insert into a matching slot in next model, and plug it in. It then works out where it is and the light changes to ready to go mode. 

[steve too]

8 minutes ago, MattyB said:

 I’m not aware of devices that would comply being available anywhere at this point

 

There are network RID available for the EU market. They would require firmware tweeks to fit what is described in CAP 2610, but the hardware should be the same.

 

8 minutes ago, MattyB said:

However it remains possible that CAA will “listen” to us and allow only broadcast ID in the final  regs, which is std government tactics for this kind of thing (suggest something awful, then fall back to something slightly less awful but still bad, and brand it as graceful concession).

 

That is probably the best that we can hope for at the moment.

[steve too]

52 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

Coincidentally, the same price as the document "ASTM F3411-22a" which defines the RFID spec 🙂   (why is it not free?)

 

Everything that you need for F3411 broadcast RID is available on github.

Edited December 21, 2023 by steve too

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Do yous not think the Chinese would put out modules, price would likely come down some.

[steve too]

As people have already posted direct RIDs for France and the US, here is one for Japan.

 

Futaba FRID-1

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by steve too

[GaryW]

4 minutes ago, steve too said:

As people have already posted direct RIDs for the French and US markets, here is one for the Japanese.

 

Futaba FRID-1

 

 

[GrumpyGnome]

54 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

When your budgets limited it's an everyday thing anyway, not a biggie for me, buying an Iphones probably a deal breaker for me though.

An iphone? Why would you need to buy an overpriced Apple product?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

3 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

An iphone? Why would you need to buy an overpriced Apple product?

Not my speciality GG, I call all those phones Iphones.

[GaryW]

8 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Not my speciality GG, I call all those phones Iphones.

 

Iphones = Overpriced Junk is same sense DJI drones use to be........

Edited December 21, 2023 by GaryWebb

[GrumpyGnome]

 

15 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Not my speciality GG, I call all those phones Iphones.

 

🙂 wouldn't have been a surprise if FAA had implemented a system that required an actual Apple product tbh....... "made in murica"

[leccyflyer]

2 hours ago, GaryWebb said:

 

Forgive me here leccyflyer but thats not sufficient reason not to have remote id any more than those that proclaim some of their models do not have enough room to fit one in as small as say the spektrum sky id unit.. or others that have said they are not gonna muck about moving already installed components or modifying their installations for fit one in ..... hell I still swap receivers between models now and never find it a pain to do

As I've already pointed out - we aren't looking for reasons not   to fit RID, we are waiting for someone to post a legitimate reason for why we would fit RID. In other words a positive benefit to model flyers. Haven't seen any sight of one of those yet.

[GaryW]

3 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

As I've already pointed out - we aren't looking for reasons not   to fit RID, we are waiting for someone to post a legitimate reason for why we would fit RID. In other words a positive benefit to model flyers. Haven't seen any sight of one of those yet.

 

it will help in stopping those who continually & regardlessly break the law which in part brings more laws & regs onto the rest of us??? ... will that work??