Warbirds Replicas Hawker Tempest V -Mass Build 2024(part two) .

[Ron Gray]

Love it, and the thought off getting my panel saw out again has me drooling 🤤

Edited March 11 by Ron Gray

[leccyflyer]

I'd be a bit concerned Richard that in freehand sanding the dihedral angle into the root of the outer panels, that I'd get the dreaded taking a wee bit extra off the leading and trailing edges than the middle, leaving a gap.. I think I'd have to jig it up with the tip raised by 35mm and then use a Permagrit block tight to the bench top  to ensure that the root of that panel was completely vertical.

[stu knowles]

Seems like a good and simple way to start with a single panel and cut it to finish up with a dihedral break at mid span.   Would it be more certain of good alignment if the dihedral brace slots were cut in before the single wing panel was cut in half?

 

Is the order book still open for the Tempest??  I've been impressed by the Wulf and this one is shaping up so well.  It needs one to be built with a good glow engine!

[gillyg1]

Yes Stu, was thinking maybe i'll get one later in the year and convert it to run on a 52 fs.😉🤔

[Paul Johnson 4]

7 minutes ago, gillyg1 said:

Yes Stu, was thinking maybe i'll get one later in the year and convert it to run on a 52 fs.😉🤔

If there's any left...I've got a feeling these are gonna fly, pardon the pun..

[RICHARD WILLS]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

I'd be a bit concerned Richard that in freehand sanding the dihedral angle into the root of the outer panels, that I'd get the dreaded taking a wee bit extra off the leading and trailing edges than the middle, leaving a gap.. I think I'd have to jig it up with the tip raised by 35mm and then use a Permagrit block tight to the bench top  to ensure that the root of that panel was completely vertical.

I understand your concern Brian . Ive done this loads of times , so for the newbies I'd say dont overthink it .

When Ive tried long sanding blocks etc in the past , Ive upset the end face much more . Its difficult not to make a concave in the middle or as you say take too much off the ends . The balsa is way harder than the foam veneer , so its usually a concave that you create unless you use the sliding method. 

I found that if you simply put the end flat on the desk and slide it so that it does not judder , it very quickly leans the original flat face one way or another. 

Seems to work everytime . You can make a jig if you want but I dont want to make it more of a big deal . 

I did all of the wing work documented above in about 3 hours (apart from time set aside for glue drying ) .

The work bench is primitive and the hack saw blade was all I needed . 

My friend Rob came along one day to watch me install some retracts in his Warbirds kit as he had never done it before . 

He described my attack on his plane as "Brutal" . Took me one hour 😉

[Chris Walby]

12 minutes ago, stu knowles said:

Seems like a good and simple way to start with a single panel and cut it to finish up with a dihedral break at mid span.   Would it be more certain of good alignment if the dihedral brace slots were cut in before the single wing panel was cut in half?

 

Is the order book still open for the Tempest??  I've been impressed by the Wulf and this one is shaping up so well.  It needs one to be built with a good glow engine!

IMHO I think you are missing the point Stu as there has been lengthy discussions about why Richard has selected electric (cost, direction of the hobby etc) and why the FW is kept light (no UC, flaps etc) as it produces a well flying model. By all means add IC and anything else, but you risk increasing the wing loading. Not a problem as plenty of warbird models have high wing loading and poked tiger attributes to follow! We have come full circle where models for IC where designed to withstand the vibration of IC and now IMHO we have designs for electric and would require beefing up for IC. My justification is that traditional kits when fitted with IC balance up and so does Richards with electric..which means he has designed the tail to be proportionally lighter so we benefit from an overall lower wing loading (oorr he is clever!).

 

 

On Leccy's point could any of the scrap be cut or fashioned to provide a jig for sanding?  

 

Richard, could you please slow up a bit...you are going to embarrass us amateurs 🙂  

[RICHARD WILLS]

Can I slow up Chris ? No , I do everything at high speed.

Ask the wife 😐

Ok chaps , I can see Ive stirred up a right little hornets nest of well intended comments . 

I like it , because otherwise I feel like I'm talking to myself . So please keep chipping in . 

I am skipping some photos because I need to "prove" the kit so you can all get one quickly . However, I will get one of you (perhaps Ron ?) to do a more detailed build of the actual kit . 

Chris is right about the I/C thing . It cant be done on these two models and will just muddy the waters . Their noses are too short , so forget that .

On the wing front , it is far easier and less prone to mistakes if a "Spitfire" wing complete with aileron is made first and sanded as one . This order ensures that the aerofoils and alignment are correct up to that point . Remember that washout has also been cut into the wing so there is a continuous subtle twist from the root to the tip . 

Funny enough , "alignment of the joint" is not critical in terms of fit as the two 4" dihedral braces will do most of the load bearing and there will almost certainly be enough of the two mated surfaces to make up the rest . Golden gorilla glue also swells to gap fill . 

The thing that is critical is the angle of attack of the outer panel to the inner and also the joint of the left and right wing . 

Having said that, I doubt if any of us has joined two wings together and been more than one degree out . 

Since we have a clearly visible ply core running through the leading and trailing edges edges (which appears black against the white balsa )  it is blatantly obvious as to when the wing panels are aligned . 

Youre going to have to trust me on this one chaps . You're overthinking it . You wont have a problem and the people back in 1998 managed it by the hundreds without the black line mentioned above . 

Now Stu , stop standing on the side of the pool wobbling and waving your arms around . 

The waters lovely in here . 

I can make as many Tempests as we need , so when we get further down the road I will publish what I have on my list in terms of names (except one who wants to remain anonymous , no its not Tony Nijhuis ) and give people a chance bail out or climb in . After that I 'll add a couple for  spares and anyone left out of the life boat is on their own . 

 

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

(perhaps Ron ?)

Music to me ears!

[Lipo Man]

I can’t help mentioning, apropos of nothing, that if one were to stick the FW190 nose onto the Tempest fuselage you’d basically have a Sea Fury. Not that anyone would ever want one of those. Absolutely not. 🤔

[Eric Robson]

54 minutes ago, Lipo Man said:

I can’t help mentioning, apropos of nothing, that if one were to stick the FW190 nose onto the Tempest fuselage you’d basically have a Sea Fury. Not that anyone would ever want one of those. Absolutely not. 🤔

It would be more like a Tempest 2 as the Seafury had quite a different fuselage. But then would the FW190 nose be big enough? 

[Paul Johnson 4]

Butchers.. butchers...Dobby asks master to speak to these muggles...

[andrew exton]

It will take some arm twisting to get Stu to convert to electric but he’s slowly getting there 

 

andy

[RICHARD WILLS]

1 hour ago, andrew exton said:

It will take some arm twisting to get Stu to convert to electric but he’s slowly getting there 

 

andy

Hey look Andy , I was the same a few years back. Ive always liked engines and have never been without my motorcycles for very long in my life , but as a WW2 fan you are always stuck with the fact that those beautiful little OS52 four strokes dont have the same relative weight as a Daimler Benz 601 or Merlin . 

Even less, a 24 cylinder Napier Sabre or 18 cylinder BMW 801 .  Consequently the advent of electric flight has given me the opportunity to take 12 oz of ballast in the form of battery , and move it around to best advantage . I dont know why more designers dont use the battery pack vertically as it seems an obvious way of getting more leverage ahead of the C of G . Maybe I should patent the idea ?😀

For me, the other big advantage with electric is the ability to swing a big multiblade prop . When you see a real Mustang , the prop is huge feature which as I C flyers we just had to swallow . 

I use the MR Rc sound system on some of my more elaborate models and It enhances the show performance dramatically . 

We wont persuade some people though , so best to leave it at that . But as Chris said , if I have to consider the options of IC conversion , most will then get a lesser design as my potential to get close to outline would be whittled away . 

A Sea Fury version certainly would be a possible derivative of this kit . Its mostly the sloping front deck and cowl . 

 

[andrew exton]

28 minutes ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

Hey look Andy , I was the same a few years back. Ive always liked engines and have never been without my motorcycles for very long in my life , but as a WW2 fan you are always stuck with the fact that those beautiful little OS52 four strokes dont have the same relative weight as a Daimler Benz 601 or Merlin . 

Even less, a 24 cylinder Napier Sabre or 18 cylinder BMW 801 .  Consequently the advent of electric flight has given me the opportunity to take 12 oz of ballast in the form of battery , and move it around to best advantage . I dont know why more designers dont use the battery pack vertically as it seems an obvious way of getting more leverage ahead of the C of G . Maybe I should patent the idea ?😀

For me, the other big advantage with electric is the ability to swing a big multiblade prop . When you see a real Mustang , the prop is huge feature which as I C flyers we just had to swallow . 

I use the MR Rc sound system on some of my more elaborate models and It enhances the show performance dramatically . 

We wont persuade some people though , so best to leave it at that . But as Chris said , if I have to consider the options of IC conversion , most will then get a lesser design as my potential to get close to outline would be whittled away . 

A Sea Fury version certainly would be a possible derivative of this kit . Its mostly the sloping front deck and cowl . 

 

 

your right in what you say Richard i was just having a playful nudge at Stu as we fly at same club , 

most of my flying has been electric for last few years , i do have some bigger petrol stuff when i get it finished but keep getting side track with smaller electric 

its just so clean & handy to transport among other things for me , & your kits have been brilliant over the years 

 

andy

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, RICHARD WILLS said:

I dont know why more designers dont use the battery pack vertically

The Dynam FW190 does exactly that.

[Eric Robson]

Used it on my Dennis Bryant Fury and VQ hurricane, 5s on both, still had to put lead in the Hurricane 

[RICHARD WILLS]

While the wings are still separate , I find them easier to work on , so I tried to do most of the work before the main joining ceremony .

Servo boxes next . Find the sheet in the box with the relevant pieces. Pop them out and assemble them dry with an elastic band . 

Pour some superglue into some of the joints (doesn't need to be bullet proof as its going to be glued into the wing ) . 

The location of the boxes is not critical so just make it in the ballpark of what's shown on the plan . Keep in mind the available depth of wing if you relocate . 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Place the box in position on the lower skin of the wing and pencil round it . 

Then , with a knife or hacksaw blade cut round the square going just through the skin . Get a knife under the skin and lever  a bit up , then peel it off .

Mind your fingers!!

If you have an electric solder gun , then bend a piece of steel wire of around 12swg into a little square loop and screw it into the two contacts . It will heat up quickly . 

You can probably use some single core twin and earth copper too . 

If you dont have a solder gun , dont worry . I used to just heat and an old undercarriage leg over the gas ring and then use that to scoop out the foam . 

The area is shiney because I wet it before putting the Gorilla glue onto the servo box sides . 

Note that I have also cut the cable channel (5mm wide to match the Balsa off cuts in the kit ) 

The box assembly is send by 3mm and pinned while drying . That is because the lid needs to go on and be flush with the skin . 

The cable run will be marked on the drawing too .

A fairly long Y lead will be required as the servo boxes are 40cm from the centre line . 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Lets have a look at how the wing is shaping up . Apart from joining the left wing to the right and hinging the aileron , its pretty much done and it didn't take long to do . 

I think you'll agree that the plan shape is pretty much spot on . 

The tops of the dihedral braces needed to be sanded flush and the rest of it had a quick "once over " with some 100 grit paper . 

On the underside I am trying to show that the servo boxes are now flush (they will need the little screw fitted to the lid ) and that I used some of the 1/4" scrap to fill the servo cable run .  

The best way to do this , is to hold the 1/4"  "end on " on the veneer , along the line you have drawn . Keeping the wood still , you swipe both sides with a sharp knife as if the wood was a ruler . You can then remove the strip of veneer knowing it is exactly the size of the wood infill . 

I've sanded the tip in accordance with the plan . Its not much of a tip , more of an end cap !

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Ok , so both wing panels have the correct dihedral and are firmly reunited as single entities .

My joints are good enough not to need filler . The brown paper covers most minor blemishes so that's fine for me . 

A word of caution here . If you are going to get "particular " about the joints , then add some lightweight filler and only rub down the filler . 

I say that , because our braces and Gorrila glue have "tricked " the panels into thinking they are as before , a continuous member , we do not want to thin the veneer in the position and create a new weak spot .

Remember that a foam veneer wing has no ribs or webbing so effectively the skin is one big (but thin ) flat spar . Don't sand it away to get a perfect look . It wont look perfect after you don't come out of a loop 😬

Next we join the wing . The two inner panels need to be flat on the desk , so weight is a good idea . 

I have also used the old pin and elastic band method of keeping tension on . 

You will notice that the two panels are not exactly the same plan view . One is maybe 2mm longer at the route . That is something that does happen with foam veneer . 

The sections are very accurate but the outer size can vary . Its a little bit of Kit cutter (sorry Phil , but when you do 50 its easy to not fuss too much )

The other factor is that as the glue dries out there can be some shrinkage . 

Never bothers me anyway , so I will simply sand right across the two trailing edges . 

How we doing out there ? Still keeping up ?

[DaveB1]

Fabulous. Nice simple, but very effective construction 👍

[RICHARD WILLS]

Right !  

I can't go back to my earlier posts and edit them , or put a big red flag up . So you might want to make a note of my little tips (sometimes after I cocked up ) 

Keep in mind , nobody has made one of these , so it would be miracle if I could get it all in the right order . 

You will notice on the fuselage build that I did not glue in the big front formers FI and F2 . It is not critical , but it is helpful to only do that after the wing has been mounted . 

That is because , without them in the way , you can mark and drill straight through F3 into the wing for the placement of the wing dowel . 

The wing sits rather nicely in the wing seat apart from the rear most 25mm. That is because , in a perfect world , you would sand the trailing edge very thin at that point . 

However in the interests of keeping the wing a little ding resistant  , I chose to sand about 1mm off the wing seat for the last 25mm . 

Ultimately that part will be under the wing fairing , which we will come to in a bit . 

The other red flag was that I damaged the thread of my wing mounting blind nut when I pushed its claws into the ply mount block . 

I did it in the vice , but forgot to add some scrap wood either side of the jaws to avoid damaging the thread . 6mm tap sorted it , but just dont do it . 

I realise that it must be difficult to come to terms with the "Master " being fallible . But there it is . 

My wife said I'd done well to keep them fooled for so long . 😕

[Keith Billinge]

How easy would this kit be to convert to a Sea Fury??? Just asking..... I love the look of the FW190 but the Tempest isnt a favourite of mine and I wonder if a bit of fettling the front end would make a good Fury?

 

KB

Edited March 13 by Keith Billinge

[RICHARD WILLS]