Do we overpower our models these days?

[Shaun Walsh]

6 minutes ago, payneib said:

If the wing bolts and main spar can take it, is anything really overpowered?

 

Edited August 11 by Shaun Walsh

[Eric Robson]

I flew my Mick Reeves Hurricane very well on a Fox 61 two stroke,  it was not underpowered but a little more power would have helped in loops, which had to be performed from a shallow dive. By a strange coincidence I was gifted one today well built and finished, no retracts or engine and in need of tlc I am undecided about a 15cc petrol a 120fs or electric. The electric version would mean major surgery to the front but it will have to join the queue for the moment. 

[Jon H]

1 hour ago, Jason Channing said:

just has power when you need it to go vertical from a standing start.

 

but why would you want that? 

[payneib]

8 minutes ago, Jon H said:

 

but why would you want that? 

People generally do hobbies for enjoyment. Some people find going vertical from take off "fun". 

 

I personally enjoy throwing in a few rolls at the same time. 

[Jon H]

3 minutes ago, payneib said:

Some people find going vertical from take off "fun"

 

Then buy a helicopter. 

 

[RottenRow]

2 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Devcon (what happened to that firm?) five minute epoxy

Still available from Inwoods in 5 and 30 minute varieties.

 

Brian.

[payneib]

1 minute ago, Jon H said:

 

Then buy a helicopter. 

 

-OR-

 

I'll continue to enjoy my hobby the way I want to. 

[Jon H]

4 minutes ago, payneib said:

-OR-

 

I'll continue to enjoy my hobby the way I want to. 

 

Ah yes, you are one of those. i think you missed the point while rushing to be offended by a post that wasnt even directed at you.

 

Use the right model for the job you are trying to do. If unlimited performance is your goal thats fine, but use the right tool for the job. 

[payneib]

5 minutes ago, Jon H said:

 

Ah yes, you are one of those. i think you missed the point while rushing to be offended by a post that wasnt even directed at you.

 

Use the right model for the job you are trying to do. If unlimited performance is your goal thats fine, but use the right tool for the job. 

Am I "one of those", or do I just understand that people want to do different things with their own hobby?

 

Surely if someone wants to prop hang a Junior 60, then a Junior 60 is right tool for the job?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Post removed, get personal and it goes.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

2 minutes ago, payneib said:

Am I "one of those", or do I just understand that people want to do different things with their own hobby?

 

Surely if someone wants to prop hang a Junior 60, then a Junior 60 is right tool for the job?

 

Well it don't do it for me, but if it makes others smile, fill yer boots.

[Martin Dance 1]

3 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Yes - my first (successful) trainer was a “Lumpers” recommended by experienced members of my club and built from a MAP plan.  It was 48” span, designed for rough flying in East Africa, built like the proverbial, covered with doped nylon and powered by a “mighty” Enya .15 glow. Although designed for single channel, I  built it with rudder/elevator proportional control using a 2 channel Sanwa set. 
 

I don’t recall ever taking off from the rather small and bumpy Croxley Moor patch but it taught me a great deal from its hand launches and compulsory dead stick landings.  The wings survived vertical dives into the greenery (although the bag of nylon rattled a lot more as I progressed) and the nose area wore more and more Devcon (what happened to that firm?) five minute epoxy after most sessions!

 

No buddy boxing in those days - Brian Cooper will probably recall the tussles over handing him the transmitter - usually just in time for the model to have impacted into the ground again!

Been out all day at Popham examining A and B tests as part of a Southern area initiative. Two observations yes wasn't the lumpers one tough aeroplane, my first radio control model Macgregor Tx and an RCM&E Cotswold tone RX, flew well once into a telegraph pole. On collecting the model the nylon covered wing looked fine, until I shook it! Today one test candidate presented with a KK Fleetwing with a OS 25. Took of from a mown grass runway and flew beutifully and so quiet. No you ndon't need excessive power to fly well.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Who said you need an excess of power to fly well ?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'll ask the question again being as it wasn't answered. Define overpowered model please.

Does the pilot who proudly states " It flys on 1/4 throttle" meet the criteria ?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My definition of overpowered would be where weight is increased to the point where the flying characteristics are affected adversely or more importantly, where the power is more than the airframe can handle safely. 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I would agree entirely with that description Martin.

[Jonathan M]

My view is that every model has a "just right" zone.  Some fliers will be inclined to a more powerful idea of "just right", while others will pride themselves on working the energy of a lower-powered equivalent to get the best out of it.

 

My Gangster 63 Lite was very good on the original Irvine 46 but is now perfect on the Irvine 53.

 

My Riot was quite weedy on the stock factory motor but is now great on the 4-Max replacement.

 

My FXj 2.5m full-house thermal soarer has too powerful a launch motor fitted (a second-hand geared Reisenauer) so I've limited the throttle to 65% which still however makes 200m in 30secs and uses up fewer amps in the process.  The alternative was to fit a much lighter Hacker geared motor (and carry less unwanted weight) but this would have fallen below the basic climb rate needed.

 

My free flight scale models (rubber, electric, CO2 and diesel) all have carefully-matched motors by definition.  FF is a great discipline for developing a sense of proportion!

[Andy Stephenson]

I fly classic aerobatics and vertical performance helps, it doesn't have to be unlimited but OMG it makes it much less effort if you have it than if you don't.

[GrumpyGnome]

11 hours ago, Shaun Walsh said:

 

Can't see the image Shaun...

[GrumpyGnome]

If you've just jammed in the biggest power source possible, and have exceeded the recommendation without thinking carefully about ALL aspects of the structure, and how you'll actually use all the available power, then I'd say "yes, you are overpowering it".

[Cuban8]

My Hyperion Helios (larger version) I fitted with an electric system rated at 1400W so around  twice the figure on the box.

It's such a hoot to trundle across the patch sedately, lift off, increase power to full wallop and vertical climb accelerating and rolling 'till it's a dot. Slow and easy spiral down and then sensible flying from then on.😈

 

 

[Robin Colbourne]

15 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I suspect that relating our early experiences will be useful for people new to the hobby to understand where the question comes from…
 

In relation to the OP, when the Mick Reeves Hurricane was first marketed, you would have struggled to find many engines of larger than .60 (10cc) capacity available to the normal modeller.

That was something that did occur to me.  Also if wanting to fly in scale competitions, in the 1970s there tended to be an adherance to the FAI 10cc limit.  When the limit was removed, we had such things as Hanno Prettner running two 61s driving a geared prop in his Dalotel (of course there are other benefits to running a geared prop).
 

[Don Fry]

11 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

If you've just jammed in the biggest power source possible, and have exceeded the recommendation without thinking carefully about ALL aspects of the structure, and how you'll actually use all the available power, then I'd say "yes, you are overpowering it".

In fairness, only once, and it concentrates attention to the build integrity of the airframe. 
I don’t do it anymore, vertical at 30 to 40 percent is a hoot, terminal velocity, vertical, 50 per cent,  but it’s hard work , in normal flight, one click of throttle is course adjustment. 

[GrumpyGnome]

Exactly. Start at the front.... will I have prop clearance, or will I need to rev at 200k, or biy exoensive mult-blade props and spinners. Will the firewall take it. Is the fuselage man enough. Does it weigh more so my undercarriage will be too puny. Will the wing join/retention take it. Will the control hinges be strong enough. Will the servos. Will the tail fall off. Etc. Etc..

 

If a wacking great lump is squeezed in and such things haven't been considered, it's just irresponsible.

 

Of course one could fly around at half throttle and never use the power. Except in an emergency, when banging the throttle open causes the torque to rip the firewall out... or summat

 

Edited August 12 by GrumpyGnome

[Chris Walby]

What about the pimp my RIOT brigade.

 

RIOT perfectly good trainer with a 3S2200, but people have to go 4S and change the motor, then the ESC and then wonder why the control horns fail and things fall off. I bet the insurance companies would love an accident with one of those...all those departures from the manufacturers design as a get out clause.

 

Its a trainer, if and when you want better performance, upgrade to a model that is designed and constructed for better performance.