BMFA National Flying Centre

[PatMc]

Posted by john stones 1 on 18/05/2015 23:58:40:

And trust works both ways fella's...do you trust the plans for an NFC are good and do you trust the members are not simpletons...as there's broad support for it, where's the problem ?

No;
Yes;
Where's the evidence of broad support ? That is the problem.

Edited By PatMc on 19/05/2015 14:21:05

[Iain Hale]

Perhaps I have been to busy trying to manage a club and inspire new pilots to take up model flying. But the BMFA appear to be about to spend over 1 million pounds of members money to purchase 100 acres of land for a flying facility.

No doubt the executive feel fully justified in this and can point to all the right clauses in the constitution to allow them to commit such a large amount of our money to one major purchase.

In my club the executive have a strict fiscal limit they can spend. The members have to ratify any further single purchase in access of this limit.

In my opinion this purchase will benefit the few at the expense of the many.

Clubs are struggling to keep their facility and would like to have security by owning their flying fields. Shouldn't the BMFA offer matched funding to support clubs wishing to purchase their own fields. This would be another way to secure local flying and the BMFA could still retain an interest in the land assets

Again were the rank and file members actually asked to vote on this proposal?

Is this project the best use of members money to meet the future survival of the hobby at club level?

 

 

 

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 20/05/2015 09:46:43

[Andy Meade]

Are you sure it's member's money? I think it's the BMFA's money - we've paid a company for a service (which they have provided us - insurance etc.) and as such they are free to spend their profits in any way they want, once they have ratified it internally with their committees.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

From Keith Lomax's information:

BMFA is a trading name of SMAE Ltd., so they are the same organisation (not a subsidiary). SMAE Ltd is, as has been pointed out, a Company Limited By Guarantee. This type of company has members as opposed to shareholders. The members, who each have a liability of one pound if the company is wound up, are the affilaited member clubs (approx 800) plus those people who have been appointed as a fellow for a long period of dedicated service (approx 30-40). Ordinary members are either Country Members (approx 1/3) or "members of member clubs" (2/3).

I would interpret this as the SMAE is "owned" by the affiliated clubs and Fellows. It is run as a limited company for practical reasons and individual members are represented by the one man one vote elected directors. Yes, individual members are buying services from a public company but don't those of us who are club members have rights to a collective voice through the club/area structures?

As each club/Fellow is liable equally for the debts, would it be a reasonable assumption that they all own equal shares?

On the above assumptions, I think individual members can count themselves fortunate that they have a representation on the NC via the "one man one vote" process!

Reading between the lines of one of the previous posts, it seems that the proposal was passed so there's little point debating this further - let's hope the outcome is positive for the association despite some of our misgivings!

Edited By Martin Harris on 20/05/2015 10:41:14

[Dave Hopkin]

As far as I (now) know the BMFA/SMAE is a "Company Limited by Guarantee" the legal position of members is as follows:

"In a company limited by guarantee, there are no shareholders, but the company must have one or more members. Subject to any special provisions in the company's articles, the members will be entitled to attend general meetings and vote, and in most companies that means they can appoint and remove the directors, and have ultimate control over the company. Many clubs operate on this basis. The members meet at the Annual General Meeting and elect a committee to manage the club on their behalf, and subject to the rules in the club's constitution. If the club is a company, the same rules will apply and will be set out in the company's articles. By and large, the company law provisions relating to general meetings, resolutions, etc. in ordinary share companies apply to companies limited by guarantee.

Just as in a company limited by shares there may be different classes of shares, it is possible to have different classes of members in a guarantee company. There may be non-voting members, for example, or members who have restricted rights in some other way. In a sports club, for example, there may be junior members (those under a certain age) who cannot vote, or social members, who pay a lower subscription but cannot use the sports facilities."

What I do NOT know is if there are any special provisions as regards members voting rights, if there are non then the Directors can be held to account at the AGM or if sufficient members demand it at a EGM

[Erfolg]

I have just received a reminder from "The Institute of Mechanical Engineers" to vote on line.

The Institute has far more members than the BMFA, dispersed all around the world.

Yet is able to provide on line voting of all members.

A far less convoluted voting system, certainly not designed to deny members a vote on important issues.

[kc]

So it's not 36.000 members but about 800 ( the affiliated clubs are the members + fellows) !

Of coures those clubs so far away from the site that its of little use to them (actually their members) could, in theory, organise themselves to oppose the purchase. But of course these clubs cannot contact each other because the BMFA wont release the contacts for all the clubs! ( remember this occured some years ago to prevent dissent then! )

So we can assume its a vanity project that will go ahead. One thing we don't know yet is which of the elite BMFA officials it will be named after! Or we could all think up some appropriate name instead............NFC........

Nudds Flying Centre?

[Tomtom39]

I emailed our club members details of the proposed NFC (following some correspondence from Manny and our Area chairman). I asked for their comments / feelings about it . I also pointed out that this would be discussed at the area OGM. I got one response out of 44 members and I understand only three (from other clubs) non area council members attended the OGM (I was away but had put in my two penny's worth to both Manny and our area chairman).

As a matter of interest , I also asked how many club members vote for delegates , still awaiting response from majority of members.

Apathy? (As I have mentioned in our club newsletter. If you don't vote than don't bother moaning about it after the event.)

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Talking of apathy

[Steve T]

Having tried to keep up with the regular postings on here, which now go around in never ending circles achieving and stating nothing....I can't be bothered with apathy!

[John Privett]

Posted by Tomtom39 on 20/05/2015 15:13:09:

... and I understand only three (from other clubs) non area council members attended the OGM (I was away but had put in my two penny's worth to both Manny and our area chairman).

I don't know which BMFA area you're in, but I was one of only three non-area committee attendees at our area (SE) OGM last Wednesday. I'd expected a rather bigger turnout considering the agenda.

[ken anderson.]

the NFC was brought up on the AOB of our last club meeting agenda(last week)......out of the twenty people that were present -there was vey little interest or opinions about it.....I feel that this may reflect the rest of the BMFA membership in general...

ken Anderson...ne..1 club meeting dept.

[Cuban8]

Posted by ken anderson. on 20/05/2015 19:34:23:

the NFC was brought up on the AOB of our last club meeting agenda(last week)......out of the twenty people that were present -there was vey little interest or opinions about it.....I feel that this may reflect the rest of the BMFA membership in general...

ken Anderson...ne..1 club meeting dept.

Same sort of response from the couple of dozen members at my club's meeting on Monday after I raised the NFC issue!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We left it be at our meeting we just enjoyed our suppers.

John

[Peter Jenkins]

Just for clarification. The Area Committee comprises a representative of each Club in the Area and the Officers. Unless the Officers (i.e. Chairman, Treasurer and so on) are representing a Club, they have no vote. Every Club gets one vote although more than one Club member may attend. Country members are entitled to attend and speak but don't have a vote. The Chairman has a casting vote to settle a dead heat but can also call a poll vote. That means that when a Club votes it carries the vote of all its members as at 14 days before the date of the meeting.

So, if you attend as a Club representative (and if you are the only one from the Club then by definition you are their rep) you are the Committee. The elected Officers are NOT the Committee - all the attendees are the Committee. Of course, if only the Officers are present at a properly constituted Area Meeting, then they are the Committee but it would be wrong to think that there is a core Committee. If Clubs choose not to attend then they have no way of expressing their members' opinions. They can always send a proxy to vote on their behalf such as another Club or one of the Officers.

Hope that explanation helps. If you want to see the Areas Constitution and the Guide to the Areas Constitution, you will find them on the BMFA Website under Downloads. Click on All Downloads, then BMFA & SMAE Documents. There are three documents there with the third being the Articles of Association of the SMAE.

[cymaz]

Posted by Cuban8 on 20/05/2015 19:48:55:

Posted by ken anderson. on 20/05/2015 19:34:23:

the NFC was brought up on the AOB of our last club meeting agenda(last week)......out of the twenty people that were present -there was vey little interest or opinions about it.....I feel that this may reflect the rest of the BMFA membership in general...

ken Anderson...ne..1 club meeting dept.

Same sort of response from the couple of dozen members at my club's meeting on Monday after I raised the NFC issue!

I'm affraid I tend to agree. One of the committee members at our area meeting kept on about this. Not many there took it seriously. Most fliers see the bmfa as a means of insurance. If another body came along and provided public liability cover, this might be the death nail for the bmfa as members would move. If the price was right. The bmfa have a monopoly at the moment.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

In a way I agree Cymas, flying at other clubs and at our club events requires BMFA insurance and in some cases an A or B that's the only catch I see though, I could get insured elsewhere and so could our club, to fly solely at our field.

John

[MattyB]

Posted by ken anderson. on 20/05/2015 19:34:23:

the NFC was brought up on the AOB of our last club meeting agenda(last week)......out of the twenty people that were present -there was vey little interest or opinions about it.....I feel that this may reflect the rest of the BMFA membership in general...

ken Anderson...ne..1 club meeting dept.

Agreed, but they will definitely have an opinion when the fees start to increase in a year or two...

[cymaz]

There's the rub. Membership has some voice but no final decision on the NFC. However the membership may be expected to pay for it. And have no say over that.

[Area 51]

Does the LMA insurance allow one to fly at other events (BMFA etc), if so an alternative already exists.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I don't believe all this will make a deal of difference in our lives lads, cheer up

It's Spring according to Cymas

John

[cymaz]

You're correct. Of the NFC gets built , I for one won't have the petrol to visit.

Its a long way to Much Marcle, Cosford and Greenacres.

[Cuban8]

Any funds raised from the general BMFA membership (if indeed the hat does go around) are going to be miniscule compared to what will really be required. Knowing how parsimonious model flyers can be when it comes to club subs, postage etc, any money raised by a potential BMFA subs increase, that wouldn't foment an all out revolution, are hardly likely to fund a toilet block, let alone what is being envisaged.

A bit like the general election, it's not a done job by any means IMHO.

Edited By Cuban8 on 21/05/2015 09:40:39

[Martyn K]

Update from BMFA this morning:

NATIONAL CENTRE STUDY - Update

[Dave Hopkin]

I note an EGM is scheduled before any exchange of contracts..... Think they better buy 2 packets of Ginger Nuts for that one!