Electric Cars.

[MattyB]

Indeed. They are certainly not a company I'd be looking to invest in!

[Learner]

38 minutes ago, MattyB said:

 Take a look at Tesla's maintenance schedule page if you don't believe me - there are no tasks that require a mech to go anywhere near the powertrain.

 

 

That probably wouldnt be the case with an accident damaged car,  thats why the insurance could be more expensive.

[Learner]

New electric car sales dropping in the private market but increasing for fleet buyers, that should help the second hand market as companies dont keep cars for long.

[MattyB]

28 minutes ago, Learner said:

That probably wouldnt be the case with an accident damaged car,  thats why the insurance could be more expensive.

 

The insurance issues with EVs were discussed a few pages ago at great length, inclduing this very issue of repairs. Putting that aside though, since when was fixing accident damage considered maintenance?  Here is the original post from Erfolg...

 

2 hours ago, Erfolg said:

....On the other hand I have read that a significant proportion of EVs maintenance bills, is the H&S issue of isolating/discharging the batteries. 

 

...and the relevent section of my response....

 

1 hour ago, MattyB said:

...In this case I'm still calling FUD, as whilst high voltage electrics are obviously very dangerous if incorrectly handled, 99% of garage visits will not require them to go anywhere near them. Take a look at Tesla's maintenance schedule page if you don't believe me - there are no tasks that require a mech to go anywhere near the powertrain.

 

Anyway, this conversation is going round in circles again. Since it's clear the sceptics/anti-EVers in this thread will just continue posting their half-remembered Daily Mail "facts" ad-infinitum without any critical analysis of the sources, it's time to admit defeat and duck out. Whatever you drive, enjoy it, but please maintain a healthy scepticism of whatever you read in the press or social media on this topic - anybody vehemently on one side of this argument or the other should be questioned as to what their motives are for sitting on one of the extremes.

 

[Learner]

25 minutes ago, MattyB said:

 

The insurance issues with EVs were discussed a few pages ago at great length, inclduing this very issue of repairs. Putting that aside though, since when was fixing accident damage considered maintenance?  Here is the original post from Erfolg...

 

 

...and the relevent section of my response....

 

 

Anyway, this conversation is going round in circles again. Since it's clear the sceptics/anti-EVers in this thread will just continue posting their half-remembered Daily Mail "facts" ad-infinitum without any critical analysis of the sources, it's time to admit defeat and duck out. Whatever you drive, enjoy it, but please maintain a healthy scepticism of whatever you read in the press or social media on this topic - anybody vehemently on one side of this argument or the other should be questioned as to what their motives are for sitting on one of the extremes.

 

I am not anti EV in fact at a car meet today I had a conversation with a chap showing me around his skoda enyak(?)  He was very enthusiastic  without needing to spout on about kilowatt hrs and linking me to graphs and you tube. He just said it was ideal for his day to day needs and I must say I was quite impressed.

I was suprised however when he said said he was thinking about buying the same sports car I was driving as a bit of fun at weekends to replace his current weekend pleasure an mx5.

He was such a nice chap I didnt bother getting the Daily mail out of the boot to show him all the fud!

You'll have plenty more time to read up plenty more facts now your not contributing to this post you may even have time to watch a few more vids. Enjoy 

[Ron Gray]

@MattyBI would suggest that you still post in this thread but ignore those comments specifically designed to wind you (and the majority of others) up. As the saying goes ‘ignorance is bliss’

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Bit off topic, but I've been viewing the new EV videos, wide screen gizmo front n center on them, thought it was illegal to use a phone whilst driving, how's these things differ ?

 

Yep I know I.C probably have em as well.

[Learner]

13 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

@MattyBI would suggest that you still post in this thread but ignore those comments specifically designed to wind you (and the majority of others) up. As the saying goes ‘ignorance is bliss’

Only one more musketeer to go!

[Erfolg]

Matty, the switching of high currents, comes from knowledge related to my work. The problem with the general comment come from bits I have reading various newspapers TV and magazines. At the time there was no reason to take note of who wrote what and where.

 

I am not anti EVs, although I am appalled by both misrepresentations and or omissions to a full description of the issues.

 

Only today yet another bit about  in this case SSE (Scottish and Southern Electricity), in that output from windfarms and hydro schemes were 19pc lower than planned, resulting in a 7 pc short fall. Apparently part of shareholder update. There is a lot more to the update.  It is the sort of thing I remember, helps forms my opinion at present, as to where we are. Business section Telegraph today. Yet the other sources I have looked at make no reference to the report.

 

Yesterday the news BBC reported that Green Surcharges are under consideration from switching from domestic Electricity bills, to domestic gas bills. Carbon taxes will still be levied on power generation. How are able to make useful comparisons, when it is difficult to work out, what are the true costs of anything (those minus penalties or subsidies).

 

[Gary Manuel]

19 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Bit off topic, but I've been viewing the new EV videos, wide screen gizmo front n center on them, thought it was illegal to use a phone whilst driving, how's these things differ ?

 

Yep I know I.C probably have em as well.

Touch screens in cars are a really bad idea in my opinion. Mine has one for audio / phone etc and controlling the index finger of your left hand at arms length whilst going over bumps and looking at the road ahead takes some doing. Give me a good old knob to grab hold of any day - ooh err missus.

[Tim Kearsley]

6 minutes ago, Gary Manuel said:

Touch screens in cars are a really bad idea in my opinion. Mine has one for audio / phone etc and controlling the index finger of your left hand at arms length whilst going over bumps and looking at the road ahead takes some doing. Give me a good old knob to grab hold of any day - ooh err missus.

Couldn't agree more Gary.  The Tesla cars are the worst for this of course and it's the one thing I really don't like about my Model 3.  It's another example of gimmicky in my opinion, sacrificing ease of use for some misguided idea of aesthetic appeal.  At times, trying to achieve something on a touch screen while driving is positively dangerous.  The voice recognition on the Tesla isn't bad, so I use that for some functions. 

[Gary Manuel]

1 hour ago, Tim Kearsley said:

Couldn't agree more Gary.  The Tesla cars are the worst for this of course and it's the one thing I really don't like about my Model 3.  It's another example of gimmicky in my opinion, sacrificing ease of use for some misguided idea of aesthetic appeal.  At times, trying to achieve something on a touch screen while driving is positively dangerous.  The voice recognition on the Tesla isn't bad, so I use that for some functions. 

I suspect it's also to do with keeping costs down. A touch screen with various standards of software features must be cheaper than a bespoke dashboard.

[Nigel R]

Possibly. But possibly not.

 

There are manufacturers out there who don't put everything in a touchscreen...

 

[Caveman]

I bought a Toyota RAV4 HEV last year. Reading the on-line reviews the 'infotainment' centre is usually criticised for being 'old fashioned' technology - it has rotary knobs and buttons for adjusting the most of the necessary functions whilst driving, e.g. adjusting the cabin temperature.

 

When we were looking at new cars I did try to adjust the temperature in one which was a touch screen system. It was difficult just sitting in the stationary vehicle, it would have been very distracting while driving.

 

GDB

[Brian Cooper]

Changing the batteries?  

This is the car of the future.

Enjoy.... 😃

 

 

[EvilC57]

11 hours ago, Caveman said:

I bought a Toyota RAV4 HEV last year. Reading the on-line reviews the 'infotainment' centre is usually criticised for being 'old fashioned' technology - it has rotary knobs and buttons for adjusting the most of the necessary functions whilst driving, e.g. adjusting the cabin temperature.

 

When we were looking at new cars I did try to adjust the temperature in one which was a touch screen system. It was difficult just sitting in the stationary vehicle, it would have been very distracting while driving.

 

GDB

Ditto! I’ve recently bought a 2023 RAV4, and although they have improved the previous often criticised infotainment screen with a new bigger clearer one, the temperature and ventilation controls are still physical switches & knobs. Compared with some other manufacturers, Toyota seem still to be somewhat conservative with regard to the use of new fangled technology in their cars.

[iqon]

17 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Bit off topic, but I've been viewing the new EV videos, wide screen gizmo front n center on them, thought it was illegal to use a phone whilst driving, how's these things differ ?

 

Yep I know I.C probably have em as well.

Leave it alone untill it`s safe to do so. - (  Lots of things you need/want to alter can be put onto steering wheel plus there is voice control (MG4 user))

Edited October 6, 2023 by iqon

[Cuban8]

3 hours ago, Brian Cooper said:

Changing the batteries?  

This is the car of the future.

Enjoy.... 😃

 

 

Actually not so far off the truth. take a look at this vid that I came across a while ago......................

 

[Erfolg]

Now that is a really interesting video.

 

The process does seem pretty time, procedure, equipment and skill/knowledge driven. In other word it will come at a cost, the question then become how much.

 

I am not knocking what was done, it helps putting into context, what is possible, a problem that can affect a battery pack.

 

Many years ago I saw a rolling chassis of a Model s at a Knutsford show room, next door to a Supercar Sales outlet. The car seemed more in keeping with Kit Car or a Traditional build, being a ladder chassis (the battery was inserted between the rails), with body work mounted on top. I wonder are the established car producers using unitary/monocoque type shells (being stiffer normally).

 

I suspect that servicing costs being higher than originally suggested as a combination of equipment and trained people. Will they come down with time, or now established, facing resistance to reduction, to maintain income similar to IC?

 

 

[Frank Skilbeck]

2 hours ago, Erfolg said:

Now that is a really interesting video.

 

The process does seem pretty time, procedure, equipment and skill/knowledge driven. In other word it will come at a cost, the question then become how much.

 

I am not knocking what was done, it helps putting into context, what is possible, a problem that can affect a battery pack.

 

Many years ago I saw a rolling chassis of a Model s at a Knutsford show room, next door to a Supercar Sales outlet. The car seemed more in keeping with Kit Car or a Traditional build, being a ladder chassis (the battery was inserted between the rails), with body work mounted on top. I wonder are the established car producers using unitary/monocoque type shells (being stiffer normally).

 

I suspect that servicing costs being higher than originally suggested as a combination of equipment and trained people. Will they come down with time, or now established, facing resistance to reduction, to maintain income similar to IC?

 

 

For context my mates 2016 66,000 mile Audi A6 V6 is going in to cure a water leak next week, apparently a valve between the cylinders, quoted 9 hours labour, I won't tell you the quoted cost but it's a bit eyewatering. 

 

But we probably had the same.when common rail fuel injection, ABS and modern electronics (canbus etc) came in requiring additional technician training. But as in all things you can now buy a gadget that plugs into the OBD socket which will read out individual cell health, just like we can check our lipos.

[Ron Gray]

Something I found out about my Ioniq 5 and it’s probably true of other EVs too, there is a towbar settings function which, in auto mode will determine the load on the towbar and then base the range on that. You can also manually select between small, medium and large trailers if you don’t want it to be in auto. Clever.

 

We had family staying with us over the past few days and when our in the Ioniq I noticed that the projected miles/kWh and hence the range was reduced from that I have been recording. I’m guessing that the weight of the car is tic when calculating the miles/kWh.

[Erfolg]

Frank

 

Last week my wife's car was in a independent recognised marque garage. After diagnosis it needed a software update. In total it cost £200.

 

In reality it just sat there, plugged in to a machine or the internet. Hmmmm, how much labour was involved? 

[Shaun Walsh]

53 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

Frank

 

Last week my wife's car was in a independent recognised marque garage. After diagnosis it needed a software update. In total it cost £200.

 

In reality it just sat there, plugged in to a machine or the internet. Hmmmm, how much labour was involved? 

You're not paying for labour, you're paying for the diagnostic machine and the regular software updates it requires. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Shaun Walsh

[Don Fry]

Actually, the cost of being a sellers market. Supply and demand. 

[Erfolg]

It does not surprise me Shaun. Perhaps what most of us never expect to be expensive is the plugging into the diagnostic machine. It seems every service starts with a diagnostic assessment. I guess this is true to both IC and EV vehicles.

 

I guess with  electric vehicles, they are looking at batteries and circuit and safety with ancillary electric issue, probably the motors etc.

 

With IC it will be about regenerative devices, emissions etc.

 

I guess the bills will always be what they are today, plus additional sums as requirements increase, as time passes.