Michael Wright Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Hi everybody, first off I am not a 'newbie' flyer, I have been flying for many years in many disciplines...trainers, wot4's, warbirds,gliders,EDF's, and 3D. My question is this, how common is poor depth of field placement, ie 'am I over the boundary hedge line yet'? hitting trees when I could have sworn that my plane was between me and the tree by a good distance? Just interested in the experience of others. regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I doubt you'll find many regular flyers that haven't had a nasty surprise at one time or another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Depends of the risk you are prepared to take. Our field has a line of trees on part of the boundary, personally I always fly with sky between the model and the tree tops. Other members fly in front of the tree line and below tree tops... sometimes they end up in the trees. One member has two T28's that are different sizes and identical markings...clipped the hedge with the larger because he thought he was flying the smaller and it was closer. Even if I had a model a didn't want I would still not deliberately fly under the tree line just to test my depth of field. IMO Biggest problem is flying models very infrequently and getting used to them again in 6 minutes before landing PS I asked a club member who flies aerobatics/3D and anything else, how he flies so low, his answer was that it does not matter if its up high or 6 inches off the ground it is where he wants it to be! Very accurate depth placement in any orientation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Have a look here too Mike The guys have various problems with placement **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Probably one of the most difficult things to get used to with RC flying. Us humans are just not good at depth perception, we nearly always think models are nearer than they are. I think flying different size models does not help but most of us like to fly an assortment. One thing you can do is place your aircraft on the ground at your boundary line and walk back to your flight box and try to memorise what it looks like at that distance. It is possible to do on line tests to see what your depth perception is like. One thing I like to do [ only works on a sunny day ] is glance where the models shadow is when landing, if on the strip we are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 A good while ago we tested depth perception at our club by sending folk out with a 2 way radio so they could shout up when a model was beyond an arbitrary boundary that we'd picked. Many pilots were so convinced that they were well inside the boundary when the spotters said they were outside, that arguments broke out. Pilots would not have it. The conclusion was that our depth perception at distance, more often than not, is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Most people's eyes are less than 4 inches apart so while stereoscopic vision helps us pick up a servo screw from the bench at arm's length, the angular variations between the eye lines at circuit distance are miniscule so I think we can say that physical depth perception has little to do with the ability to judge distance. What, apart from ground shadows, is left? It can only be judgement of apparent size which has to be learnt by repeated experience - sometimes with expensive results! In my experience, swapping model size is the most hazardous condition. The best defence seems to be setting up a steady approach to a preselected aiming point, carefully monitoring the relationship between the runway threshold or obstruction and the approach line to ensure that you are overshooting it slightly. Flying into a distant tree that you think you're in front of (or behind!) can only ever be avoided by an estimate born out of experience - or luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Thanks for the replies. It seems that I am not alone in this. It is interesting that we are all suffering more away from the close up zone. We also conducted tests with people on the boundary fence and had the same result, the plane looks closer than it is in reality. A lot of we problem is having to land in fields that are a little small for the size of plane we fly here. Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The ONLY way to be sure how far away your model is, is to fly Control LIne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I think one reason why the depth perception problem is worse for novice flyers (and for more experienced pilots flying an unfamiliar model) is that the greater the level of concentration needed to fly it, the greater the tunnel vision effect. As a result less attention is available to assess the model's position relative to its surroundings. Even so, I do agree that at distance, our depth perception is generally awful - witness the fact that when going to help retrieve a wayward model, we sometimes can't even agree which field it might be in! Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I find wearing a pair of glasses with a tint that enhances colour contrast helps for me although we all have different sight problems. I generally don't have a problem but I make sure that I fly keeping well clear or above obstacles that can literally catch you out , like trees in winter! I wear specs all the time but like an orangy brown tint that works well both in sunny and cloudy condition. Silver aircraft however are a different animal an I tend to only fly them in brighter conditions. One of our club members has only one good eye and he amazes me how he gets so low over trees .........most of the time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan M Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Interesting discussion - and I'm normally guilty of turning onto base-leg much further away than necessary. But surely its not just a question of visual reckoning - what about instinctively knowing how far away your model should be after a few minutes' flying both upwind and down on any given day? If the boundary of your patch is say three runway lengths beyond it at either end, and it takes say 5 seconds to overfly the runway downwind at half-throttle, then its going to take 15 seconds before you're at the boundary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 That wouldn't be much use at our fairly compact field where the runways starts at the boundaries - on the most commonly used one, complete with a low hedge and Armco barrier (to discourage our travelling friends). On a light wind day with a largish or fast model, flare needs to be commenced within 10 to 15 yards of the boundary so timing methods would be very hard to use. Triangulation helps - standing back from the runway as far as practical allows a perspective view but as I mentioned before, a well set up and monitored approach is your best friend. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/01/2019 12:17:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I'm glad I am not the only one with this problem, a short while ago we had our club bomb drop competition and all my bombs fell long of the target. I need more practice or try flying at 45degs across the target. Maybe I could fit a laser targeting light pointing down on the field that should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex nicol Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 A couple of points worth noting, when learning it's not unusual for a novice pilot to complete his last turn and runway line up to early. in fact sometimes it can seem as if you need to resist the natural urge to turn by a couple of seconds to ensure proper line up. The other point is landing a model you are unsure of or haven't flown for a bit, so much extra concentration goes in to line up, keeping wings level and reducing height and speed it's easy to overlook the fact you might be a little bit short of where you need to be and perhaps not a depth of perception issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I have no trouble at all, having perfect eyesight. I do bomb drops and can get they in the middle of the strip. Also, practice makes perfect. One chap at our club flew his Extrawot into a tree last year, I did remind him that he was behind the tree and going to fly into it - and he did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Posted by Paul Marsh on 13/01/2019 14:38:39: I have no trouble at all, having perfect eyesight. I do bomb drops and can get they in the middle of the strip. Also, practice makes perfect. One chap at our club flew his Extrawot into a tree last year, I did remind him that he was behind the tree and going to fly into it - and he did! The only problem you have is your modesty (or Lack thereof) Edited By Ultymate on 13/01/2019 15:18:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex nicol Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Actually that's just brought another factor to mind, the magnetic draw that solitary inanimate objects have on our aircraft. by that I mean things like Trees, Fence posts and the solitary rock in the middle of a grassy field. How many times has somebody hit one of these when it would be so much easier to miss. I know I have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Hi Michael , the only real remedy, for this unpleasant anomaly is permanent flying in a familiar environment ..... Exercise is all we need. Note:if memory does not spare ... this phenomenon is called : '' Microscopic view '' ...if I made a mistake ... Martin Harris would pull my skin off.... Regards Jo Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:28:22 Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:32:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Posted by Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:24:42: Hi Michael , the only real remedy, for this unpleasant anomaly is permanent flying in a familiar environment ..... Exercise is all we need. Note:if memory does not spare ... this phenomenon is called : '' Microscopic view '' ...if I made a mistake ... Martin Harris would pull my skin off.... Regards Jo Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:28:22 Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:32:19 Stereoscopic View Josip, at least you knew it was scopic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Well simply put, my eyesight is not as good as it once was, hearing as well, bones n joints ache a bit also. My long time experience of modellers is you've always been further out than you think, but won't admit to it unless a tree says so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Posted by john stones 1 on 13/01/2019 18:45:27: Well simply put, my eyesight is not as good as it once was, hearing as well, bones n joints ache a bit also. My long time experience of modellers is you've always been further out than you think, but won't admit to it unless a tree says so. Ain't that so. Edit, but what gets me, is, when it happens, yer eyes keep going for a second, til reality intrudes. Edited By Don Fry on 13/01/2019 19:11:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Posted by Denis Watkins on 13/01/2019 18:40:41: Posted by Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:24:42: Hi Michael , the only real remedy, for this unpleasant anomaly is permanent flying in a familiar environment ..... Exercise is all we need. Note:if memory does not spare ... this phenomenon is called : '' Microscopic view '' ...if I made a mistake ... Martin Harris would pull my skin off.... Regards Jo Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:28:22 Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 18:32:19 Stereoscopic View Josip, at least you knew it was scopic Thank you very much dear Denis ,and all the best....stereoscopic , stereoscopic , stereoscopic...etc :Repetitio est mater scientiam. Jo Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 13/01/2019 19:58:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 There was a really interesting article on landing that was in a LMA mag last year...could have been 2017. I will attempt to find it Well, I’ve looked over the back issues on line and it’s not published there. I’ve drawn a blank but I’m sure someone might know, Ian Redshaw might. Edited By cymaz on 14/01/2019 21:07:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.