Tools required for hobby

[TerryC123]

19 hours ago, John Lee said:

 

 

Full disclosure - afraid I did not build it! I was very fortunate to pick it up at local swapmeet a five or six years ago. By coincidence I popped over to see Bernard, the builder who I had not seen since purchasing it, last week to pick up an original DB Tinker (40inch span sport biplane from the 70's) kit. He is selling off a number of his planes which are to the same standard on the BMFA Classifieds at the moment but unfortunately he is a long way away from you in Cheshire. However amongst his items is a Belair Junior 60 short kit which you may just be interested in. Link to his advert. And Link to the kit manufacturer.

Half price!! Not bad!!

[Alan Hilton]

My thinking on this is the super sixty is a better trainer  than a junior .it’s a a radio control design whereas the junior is really a free flight model .The frog jackdaw is also a good flier but I don’t think a kit is available 

[PatMc]

The Super 60 was designed as a free flight or rudder only with optional limited motor control. The versions now being sold by Belair & Ben Buckle have been modified for modern radio control of rudder, elevator & motor.

The version of the Jnr 60 was indeed originally free flight only but a re-designed version with wider fuselage & better wing spar arrangement was produced for rudder & motor control. Like the Super 60 the current kits have been modified for R,E & M but unfortunately they have the poorer wing spar design.

Both the current Jnr & Super 60 kits retain a method of wing retention that was fine for free flight but poor for radio control as it leaves the wings liable to be

easily over stressed & liable to fold in flight. 

[Don Fry]

I think this discussion has moved to what makes a first build. Each flys well, neither makes a good trainer, unless the builder reckons to learn without assistance. And I prefer the Super 60, as, if built without ailerons, you can build another wing, less dihedral, with aileron, and band it on and carry on. Note the poetry, powered by St Émilion.

[Nigel R]

Super 60 is the archetypal trainer. Construction is ok although I'd say there are easier first time builds out there. In ye olden dayes, a lot of builders would have first knocked up a few free flight models and have some experience.

 

DB's Pronto is the (ultimate?) simplification of the Super 60. Proportions are near identical. Shapes altered to make the build as simple as possible.

 

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=8748

 

Box fuselage.

Exposed motor.

Slab tailplane.

Optional ailerons.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Nigel R

[David Hazell 1]

Not forgetting what you need to stick stuff together with:

 

10ml syringes with blunt needle for more precisely applying glue:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Syringes-Blunt-Needle-Mixing-Syringe/dp/B01N2ZQ44R?th=1

 

micro tip capillary tubes to stick on the end of your superphatic glue bottle:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/zhuochuan-Applicator-Micro-Tips-Dispensing-Dispensers/dp/B08K2G3TS2/

 

(other outlets are available)

 

Thin CA, medium CA. Superphatic (love this stuff). PVA. Aliphatic resin...

 

 

[Bruce Collinson]

and talking of gluing, stirring sticks for 2 part adhesives can be obtained from your local filling station or CostalottaBucks coffee place, as can thin plastic gloves (not from aforesaid caffeine retailers) and I think it is the case that they pay about £1 a bag/box.   I blagged one of each from my local PFS and they last for ages.   Especially if you're from God's Own County and re-use the sticks by breaking the ends off.

 

Cupcake cases are good for mixing epoxy in smaller quantities, plastic (are we allowed to use that word) disposable (ditto) cups for skinning epoxy/larger volumes.   All cheap as chips.

[David Hazell 1]

I try to remember to save the tops from milk cartons to use for mixing epoxy. Then again, any old bit of plastic or card works just as well

[TerryC123]

10 hours ago, Nigel R said:

Super 60 is the archetypal trainer. Construction is ok although I'd say there are easier first time builds out there. In ye olden dayes, a lot of builders would have first knocked up a few free flight models and have some experience.

 

DB's Pronto is the (ultimate?) simplification of the Super 60. Proportions are near identical. Shapes altered to make the build as simple as possible.

 

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=8748

 

Box fuselage.

Exposed motor.

Slab tailplane.

Optional ailerons.

 

Think you might be right! much simpler for a first build!!.  Still getting things together re equipment!!

[Don Fry]

I use the back of an old envelope and a stirrer fron the firewood bucket.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Don Fry
Still can’t spell

[Jason Channing]

On 01/02/2023 at 11:48, Cuban8 said:

Tend to agree with you Paul - certainly not a one size fits all issue, but I found that the limited flight envelope of many of the classic old timers to be very restrictive when it comes to learning. Fine when radio was in its infancy with single channel, or all the push a button for left and two pushes for right, or whatever it was, but not with modern multi channel proportional gear. Depends on the pupil and how they wish to progress, but IMHO a good 4 channel trainer that is not over-powered and is set up for a beginner will be a far superior teaching instrument than a very lightly loaded vintage type.

 

When you can do rolling loops and rolling circles with a junior 60 let me know and ill change to another model, admitting that you need good power to do this  especially inverted circuits but they can be done, so far other than a Quaker Flash nothing comes close to what you can do with elevator, rudder and throttle on a junior 60. next thing for power is a YS. nothing light about my model as I bought this one second hand and removed a lot of lead as well. 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jason Channing

[GrumpyGnome]

Despite using what seems like hundreds of the wooden coffee stirrers on GWS foam model repairs, I still have thousands..... I used to drink a lot of coffee and my team in work used to donate them as well.  I'm still mixing epoxy on the little 'tear off a square' note blocks that an ATM manufacturer provided as freebies a decade ago 🙂 

 

I like free stuff. Possibly I'm a Yorkshireman by osmosis......

[TerryC123]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Despite using what seems like hundreds of the wooden coffee stirrers on GWS foam model repairs, I still have thousands..... I used to drink a lot of coffee and my team in work used to donate them as well.  I'm still mixing epoxy on the little 'tear off a square' note blocks that an ATM manufacturer provided as freebies a decade ago 🙂 

 

I like free stuff. Possibly I'm a Yorkshireman by osmosis......

Whats a freebie!! is that another first build plane😉

[Bruce Collinson]

But if you weigh epoxy, or indeed any two part chemical, something cup shaped makes it much easier and far less likely to drip   into the scales.   I understand that +/- 10% proportions will adhere but beyond that the strength is significantly compromised and I query

whether it is reliable to achieve these parameters by eye.

BTC

[Stuart Z]

Super 60 - built 2 of them.  Easy to build, yes there are easier slab sided models but for building pleasure the Super 60 is good fun.

[Fun Flyer]

I've had several Super 60s.  They're just a terrific model that loves to fly.

Build one with an aileron wing, fit a FourStroke and go and enjoy yourself.

[TerryC123]

1 hour ago, Fun Flyer said:

I've had several Super 60s.  They're just a terrific model that loves to fly.

Build one with an aileron wing, fit a FourStroke and go and enjoy yourself.

we are limited to noise, neighbours. So electric is the way to go. But I am talking ''live airfield'' got a microlight (soon to be sold) out of Felthorpe,Norfolk. But flew into Northrepps/Cromer which has model flying club and NO ON on the field!! midday Sunday!!

[David Davis]

I seem to have made a career out of training nervous elderly novices!

 

In my view the Super 60 is a better trainer than the Junior 60 and I've built two of each and bought a third Super 60 as well. With its longer nose it's easier to balance without adding lots of lead under the engine. Furthermore, it's Clark Y wing section means that it can penetrate a breeze much better than a Junior 60 with its undercambered free flight aerofoil, besides you can easily build an aileron wing for a Super 60 with either inset or strip ailerons.

 

Another good choice for a four channel trainer is the Telemaster 40. It's much lighter than modern ARTF trainers and will fly more slowly though it is about a foot bigger in the wingspan than the Super 60. Plans are available from The Outerzone or from your humble servant at cost. The Outerzone shows three alternatives: the Telemaster 40 by Joe Bridi with strip ailerons; the Telemaster 1800 with a veneered foam wing and the original Telemaster with inset ailerons by karl-Heinz Denzin. https://outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Telemaster

 

I am currently teaching a beginner to fly on a Junior 60, a four channel foamie and an ARTF Seagull Boomerang. The Boomerang is ideal once the beginner has mastered the slower-flying models and its semi-symmetrical wing section enables it to be flown in a wind.

 

Having said that the Super 60 is a better flyer than the Junior 60 I just love the way the Junior 60 flies! Just don't try to fly it in a wind! Mind you I'm biased because the Junior 60 was my first successful radio controlled model, There are two types of Junior 60, the original 1946 model and the 1955 version which featured a wider fuselage and different, stronger wing construction. https://outerzone.co.uk/search/results.asp?keyword=Junior+60. Mine was the later version built from a Flair kit but they are no longer produced. Belair Models do a short kit of the Junior 60 but I'm not sure which version. https://www.belairdigital.co.uk/detail.asp?id=1342

 

 

[Martian]

Dont forget a first aid kit ,who hasn't mannage not to operate on themselves whilst using a scalpel ,only last week I added to my countless scars whilst using an orthopaedic v20 easily cut through skin,vein into bone just as it was made to do ,copious amounts of blood healthy colour to .

[gangster]

On 07/02/2023 at 12:43, Martian said:

Dont forget a first aid kit ,who hasn't mannage not to operate on themselves whilst using a scalpel ,only last week I added to my countless scars whilst using an orthopaedic v20 easily cut through skin,vein into bone just as it was made to do ,copious amounts of blood healthy colour to .

Many years ago a mate of mine told me that if you get blood on a model during building it it’s will fly well. You know what 40 odd years on I think he was right

[gangster]

I guess when we refer to a Super 60 we are generally talking 3 channel. However the 4 channel and the low wing Super 60 are all their own models. The low wing version is a real pleasure to fly.  The Junior 60 Is another animal all together but it is fun to use a whole different set of skills. Fly in the wind? Oh yes it’s fun.  Hover it, nearly vertical take off and landing fly backwards. This has made me want to get mine out and gear it up and get it out there. Plan is to gear it up with vintage RCM&E or Micron gear

[Andy Stephenson]

3 hours ago, gangster said:

Many years ago a mate of mine told me that if you get blood on a model during building it it’s will fly well. You know what 40 odd years on I think he was right

Would it help if I sacrificed a chicken over some of my more recalcitrant models?

[kevin b]

1 hour ago, Andy Stephenson said:

Would it help if I sacrificed a chicken over some of my more recalcitrant models?

Chickens don't fly very far.

[Keith Billinge]

For a beutiful flat building board that will accept pins and stay flat......Raid a builder's skip for a decent off-cut of plaster board.
Cover the edges in packing tape and lay flat on your table. Lovely!

 

[Naval]

Does anyone use steel blocks for squaring up ribs and things and weighing things down before gluing?  I was looking for some on the net.  Best I could find is machinist's 1-2-3 blocks, 10 for $60 USD, which seems high.  I don't want to use a magnetic rig; I hate magnetizing things, and erasing magnetic media, etc.  Or will one of the aforementioned (SLEC) jigs fill the need?