First taste of the sky

[Wookman]

On 09/04/2023 at 23:05, PDB said:

During my first 10 months with a Boomerang flying in as many conditions as possible in the main practicing the A test and countless landings I've had no use for dual rates. I did find some of the controls a bit sensitive initially and was shown how to address this mechanically. 

 

Recently I've got an Easyglider whos speed range greatly varies from thermal hunting to high speed passes. I find the controls for high speed are too sensitive so for the first time I'm using dual rates to tame it.

 

Being on a tight budget I've bought a few small glow engines and a bunch of foam board to knock up some models and I'll be using dual rates for the early flights to tame any over sensitivity.

 

For me there are certain circumstances when dual rates have proved useful.

Sooner or later you will have the rate set wrong. Use a bit of expo and you still have full movement available when you need it but with soft centres like a decent box of chocolates. Anything that lightens the workload while you are flying is good. That's where modern computer txs come into there own. 

[Cuban8]

On 09/04/2023 at 23:05, PDB said:

 

 

Being on a tight budget I've bought a few small glow engines and a bunch of foam board to knock up some models and I'll be using dual rates for the early flights to tame any over sensitivity.

 

The way things are going with the price and availability of electric flight tackle, at least for anything larger that small lightweight stuff, I can see a renaissance in the popularity of the good old 40 - 60 size two stroke. A few new names have appeared recently and look good. Noise really needn't be a big issue for many sites if the manufacturers really addressed the problem that they ignored for years. Irvine being the exception with their Q series. 

Time will tell.

[GrumpyGnome]

The Force 46 seems to be already discontinued, further reducing choice 🙁

[toto]

Well,

 

Made the flying field as planned. My instructor was busy yesterday flying one of his models in readiness for an open day next weekend. So, had a great time watching a perfect demonstration of what can be achieved. .... I can only watch in awe and aspire.

 

Next up ..... me ....... so the we go through the pre- flight checks, all seems ok. We get our slot and the instructor takes the Boo,erang up into the skies. ..... about 30 seconds later after achieving cruising height .... disaster ... complete control lost and the Boomerang goes.ummeting towards the ground ...... thick, watery, peaty ground a fair distance away in a neighbouring field.

 

The rescue mission commences and after negotiating a stile over the fence and a fair old treck to locate the model, we find it and the damage is assessed. One side of the nose cowl broken off and the landing hear stripped off. This wont be flying again today

 

A post mortem done starting with a complete range check to see if the controller was picking up the signal and operating the control surfaces as it should do and very strangely, it was. Puzzling. The same checks run on the throttle, everything of ... but a very strong smell of burning coming from the controller. The model has previous for similar behaviour but it was thought that it had been resolved by installing a new control unit. .... obviously not.  Personally, I think that although the model does fly ok ( I have used it before myself on previous training sessions )  it does look as if its maybe past its nest, maybe not.

 

Anyway, the outcome was no air time today. However, that's the nature of the hobby I suppose. These things happen.

 

Roll on next weekend.   my Carbon Cub is being put together and my TX and RX batteries will be hitting the charger to allow for its initial set up. Let's see how that goes.

 

Cheers for now

 

Toto

[GrumpyGnome]

Disappointing! What's the 'control unit'?

 

We (well a club mate) gave a new member his first successful flights today - he'd only come along to watch having damaged his own model 'having a go'...... quickly realised there's more to it than meets the eye.  He had 3 flights buddy-boxed on an electric Junior 60 and left with renewed mojo.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Sorry to hear that the 'Magic smoke' killed your plane Toto,,,

 

so was it an HK 45a controller getting hot on a 30a motor ?.🤢

[Simon Chaddock]

Toto

To me it sounds as if the ESC has burned out but its BEC is still working, hence the radio and servo still work.

The fact the BEC is still working suggest the failure in flight was due to the ESC failure temporarily dropping the voltage to the point the receiver 'browned out' leaving no control.

There is no doubt the ESC will have to be replaced but first it is important to try to find out what caused it to fail or it will simply happen again.😲

As Paul De T points out if a 45A ESC fails driving a 30A motor it means something is seriously wrong. It could be the motor is grossly over loaded with too big a prop or the motor has has some sort of internal fault.

It is quite likely you may have to replace both the motor and ESC.

 

I would strongly recommend before you couple up any new bits you purchase a 100A Watt meter so you can determine exactly what Amps are being drawn at full power when stationary on the ground. If it is shown to be within 80% of the maximum specifications of the motor and ESC not only is a failure unlikely but the actual inflight amps will be slightly lower too.

 

Having been bitten a couple of times when I starting building electric planes I would now not even consider flying a plane until I have satisfied myself by measurement that the full power amps are safely within all the components specification.      

[toto]

Hi Paul,

 

Thankfully it was the club trainer in the hands of the instructor. I did not even get a chance of taking control ...... thankfully. Any checking on compatibility between the various electronic elements was down to them. I am presuming they know their stuff. I'm the rookie. However, I do take particular care in checking the compatibility of my own kit when purchasing often doing research, speaking with suppliers to check, or both.

 

In saying that, I noted that the ISDT battery charger ( dual unit ) that I bought has different connections from that of my batteries supplied plugs. The unit itself is definitely comparable with all lipo batteries from 1 - 6s. I must need some sort of adaptor 5o be able to use it. I use Spektrum smart batteries. The difference between the connector is a slightly squared internal moulding as opposed to a rounded moulding. ( probably would have been better 3xplain3d with pictures.

 

Grumpy Gnome,

 

I'm not sure what kind of control unit it was. From memory it seemed to be disguised  by black heat shrink kind material. There is no chance of me going it alone. I value my models too much.  also dont want to put anyone or anything else at risk. Just stupid.

 

I have a battery and servo checker, I'm assuming that this is completely different from a watt meter. I'll check it out.

 

Sorry for the war and peace above

 

Toto

 

 

[Caveman]

HI Toto, I've been following your 'journey' into RC flying and I'm pleased that you're so enthusiastic and enjoying the experience.

 

Following your post about charging the NX6, I read the manual for this transmitter. I'm staggered, but not surprised, that there's no mention of what will happen when it's plugged in to charge. A typical case of the manufacturer not understand that someone coming to it for the first time has no knowledge of how they've designed item, and don't realise that it's not obvious that the light will extinguish when fully charged. Just as well the forum's here where these questions can be asked!

 

I think the connectors on the Spektrum smart battery are EC5 or EC3 - you can check which one by Googling the batteries you have and looking at the specification.

 

As far as I can see the ISDT chargers have XT60 output sockets - again check this with the specification of your charger.

 

If I'm right then your need a couple of adaptors like these XT60 Male to EC5 Female RC Battery Adapter (No Wires) (componentshop.co.uk)

 

Sounds like the shrink wrapped item which failed is the ESC (electronic speed controller).

 

Keep the posts coming, cheers GDB

 

 

[toto]

Thank you Caveman,

 

I checked your link and these adaptors look like the real deal.

 

I'll check the specification for both connections like you suggest prior to ordering them though as you suggest. Your help is very much appreciated for going the extra mile. I do try yo look these things myself but sometimes it all about getting the terminology correct to get the best results out of the search engine.

 

I agree about the Spektrum NX handbook. It's pretty bad that they dont write these assuming they have to include for the lowest possible denominator ..... the complete newbie.

 

I sort of guessed in the end what the likely outcome would be but let's just suppose for a minute that the continuous green light displayed when switching it on actually indicated a fault condition with the TX. I wonder if Spektrum would honour a warranty situation if they found out that you had continued to attempt a charge whilst this was illuminated.

 

Most other products that come with these type of charging facilities explain the signalling. 

 

However ..... no harm done.

 

Thanks again

 

Toto

[PDB]

11 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

The Force 46 seems to be already discontinued, further reducing choice 🙁

The choice of new glow engines is certainly limited and expensive. ☹️

 

My source of engines has been from club members happy to let them go at good prices when they know they will be put to good use. 👍

[paul devereux]

13 hours ago, toto said:

Well,

 

Made the flying field as planned. My instructor was busy yesterday flying one of his models in readiness for an open day next weekend. So, had a great time watching a perfect demonstration of what can be achieved. .... I can only watch in awe and aspire.

 

Next up ..... me ....... so the we go through the pre- flight checks, all seems ok. We get our slot and the instructor takes the Boo,erang up into the skies. ..... about 30 seconds later after achieving cruising height .... disaster ... complete control lost and the Boomerang goes.ummeting towards the ground ...... thick, watery, peaty ground a fair distance away in a neighbouring field.

 

On 15/04/2023 at 17:12, toto said:

So another weekend at the flying field. Today was just an inactive visit as we never had a trainer to take me up. No worries there. I had a great time watching others and , as usual, asking loads of questions.

toto, I think you are being let down. A whole weekend of good flying weather and all you get is half a flight. Someone who posted here a few months ago, I think his name was Greg, opted to go the solo route as he had somewhere safe to fly- iirc, he was going to practise small hops until he felt confident to try a circuit. He was also going to get some input from someone who could already fly.

I read a post just now (from 2020), I think it was by @Peter Miller saying that the ideal first plane is a three-channel high-wing old-timer type which has inherent stability (apologies if it wasn't you, Peter). I agree with this 100%. If you get into trouble with a plane that was initially built for free flight, once you stop interfering with it, it will fly itself. With a flat wing 4-channel plane, once you stop interfering with it, it will carry on flying where you last pointed it, even if that is the ground. (I'm exaggerating of course, to make a point).

A lot of people are self-taught. Admittedly, you can get a lot of useful advice and can save money on having less crashes at a club (not in your case though, it seems), but you can get more actual flight time on your own.

 

[J D 8]

The snag with the above 3 channal trainer on your own method is that one needs to know how to trim it to fly correcty. Something those of us who started with free flight would have leared how to do.

[toto]

Hi Paul,

 

I will resist the solo route for as long as I can. If I feel I am not making any progress then it maybe a better option to change clubs. I appreciate that the members give their time freely so have to just for on with what is made available but I think what's needed is to firstly, stick to the same tutor( I am on no 3 in as many weeks ) and work with a reliable model. I have went with whatever they have suggested as I just want to take their advice and not rock the boat even though I have a brand new Carbon cub sitting there which is perfectly acceptable as a model to learn with.

 

I am trying not to make the mistake that I'll bet so many others have made and just think, bugger it I'll just find somewhere quiet and get on with it. My enthusiasm is rid9jg high but I'm determined to curtail it and " do the sensible thing ". It can be a little frustrating though. That's the mature of the beast ...... patience wins the day.

 

Toto

[Jon H]

Your instructor didnt give you a flight all day because he was practicing for an event? really? that took him all day? Dont get me wrong, i have had days where i want to do a maiden flight or focus on something else, but i either warned my students not to show up that day, booked them with another instructor, or gave them a hand after i was done faffing about. 

 

Anyway the situation with the lawn dart club trainer is why i always recommend students have their own. It could be weeks before it is repaired or replaced and its anyone's guess what caused the failure. Could it be lack of maintenance? That is very common with club models left in the shed at the field. 

 

Hopefully the carbon cub allows you greater stick time. 

[Christopher Wolfe]

3 hours ago, J D 8 said:

The snag with the above 3 channal trainer on your own method is that one needs to know how to trim it to fly correcty. Something those of us who started with free flight would have leared how to do.

How I sympathise with you J D 8 😉

 

Many years ago I learned to trim an inherently stable r/c model (such as a KK Super 60 or a Veron Robot) to fly 'hands -off and when a trainee got into a bit of trouble (hopefully 3 mistakes high) I told them to simply let go of the sticks and let the model sort itself out.

 

Very rarely did I have to rip the transmitter from the frozen grasp of the terrified trainee.

 

This was pre trainer cord days and actually had a high success rate.

 

Chris

[Graham Bowers]

Communication is everything!

 

If you arrived as planned (which suggests arrangements were made) and were surprised by your instructor doing something else instead, it's a bit poor, in my opinion. I accept the instructors are volunteers of their time. However I do a lot of volunteering in an other sphere, and delivering on commitments is important in my opinion whether voluntary or paid.

 

Whilst using a club model has advantages, so does using your own. It sounds like on balance, you'd be better using your own right now.

 

I'd be inclined to have a chat with whoever heads up the instruction effort at your club, review progress and then expectations for the future. That'll probably give you enough clues about whether a plan B should be sought.

[J D 8]

         Hi Christopher, Having flown free flight and control line before moving to Radio control was not such a big step for me.  The model that got me going after a couple of false starts was a DB Rooky 86, a powered glider. A modeler I met [ local TV chap ] was kind enough to show how to set up the radio and trim it and give a lesson. After that I was on my own.  At first when it came to landing I would just let the rooky do its own thing. I was well chuffed after a few more flights I was able to have it land in the same field I launched from.   Cheers, John.

[paul devereux]

12 hours ago, J D 8 said:

         Hi Christopher, Having flown free flight and control line before moving to Radio control was not such a big step for me.  The model that got me going after a couple of false starts was a DB Rooky 86, a powered glider. A modeler I met [ local TV chap ] was kind enough to show how to set up the radio and trim it and give a lesson. After that I was on my own.  At first when it came to landing I would just let the rooky do its own thing. I was well chuffed after a few more flights I was able to have it land in the same field I launched from.   Cheers, John.

I was pleased if it was the same postcode.

[toto]

Things are moving on a bit.

 

Invited to my instructors house to check out the carbon cub and get some initial settings sorted on my transmitter. Quite happy that things are starting to move so possibly back on track. Again, not a good aspect for the weather this weekend but that cant be helped. Let's wait and see. I have plenty to keep me occupied for the time being until we finally scare the crap out of the cub. 

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Toto

[Peter Jenkins]

That's encouraging Toto.  Keep smiling and keep patient.  It's cheaper that way!  Don't ask how I know!

[toto]

Cheap ..... there is nothing cheap about this hobby.  

 

It does seem to be coming together .... eventually.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[GrumpyGnome]

Cheaper than Golf........ and you can wear 'normal' clothes.....

[Peter Jenkins]

3 hours ago, toto said:

Cheap ..... there is nothing cheap about this hobby.  

 

It does seem to be coming together .... eventually.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

Ah yes, you'll soon find that there is cheap and there is "not that expensive after all"!  🤣

Edited April 19, 2023 by Peter Jenkins

[Graham Bowers]

8 hours ago, toto said:

Cheap ..... there is nothing cheap about this hobby.  

 

It does seem to be coming together .... eventually.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

A lot of fun *can* be had for very little money and having expensive and affordable models / setups is not mutually exclusive.

Foamboard is a great material and @Ron Gray's thread on his foam hanky panky is an example.

I built a foam extra and it's great. I tried to attach the plan but the upload failed. PM me if it's of interest, or if you're on RCgroups it's there. Search for 3Dbatix

I currently have one of these on the go, building it as a pusher: https://jetworks.online/product-category/gnat/ That's a paid for plan, however there is a free trainer https://jetworks.online/cadet-free-plans/