illegal; drone flight and non registration fines

[Peter Jenkins]

I very much doubt that drones have had their big bang moment.  Perhaps with those who just wanted to get a different line on their personal photography or just a new toy but the professional, especially, wild life photographers are using them increasingly.

 

Plus, just look at the use of drones, both multi rotor and winged, in the Ukraine conflict.  Drones have completely altered the way that conflict is being controlled and prosecuted.  That's been a lesson to the world's militaries.  Military drones have been used before right up to the very large and expensive ones like Global Hawk that has a duration of 30 hours and sits way above all the commercial traffic at around 60,000 ft.  The ones that are now being used are the "hobby" drones made by DJI and other smaller ones as well.  That being said, the military generally use ranges in this country to fly the drones but the adoption of conspicuity devices may well allow them to be used outside ranges.  What I think we will see is much better coordination of drone operation and our role will be to watch that it doesn't start to cramp our use of the airspace surrounding our established flying fields.  Indeed, when new fields are established they also need to be protected from infringement.

 

That having been said, an Apache flew right through the overhead of our field which is on a disused airfield.  They are meant to be aware of both the full size and model flying at the field and undertook to mark up their operations map accordingly.  Guess someone wasn't bothered to read the information!

[Rich Griff]

I have a couple of cheapo Lidl drones, using the larger one on the local football pitch with permission subject to all the rules etc ..

 

The small one is for indoor flying with "different" rules. I also use the larger one indoors as well.

 

I also fly the ninga help at both venues.

 

I am thinking of getting a cheapo camera drone so I can inspect our house roof and chimney stack. I am dreading going up there as I am sure every slate I touch will break ?

 

I have yet to "swot up" on camera drone rules, bmfa rules and insurance conditions so I stay legal. The pictures will only be if the roof/chimney stack on our house for our use only. I will be asking permission of " next door" for the flight as it's only good manners...

 

I wonder where I will stand if asked " can you do mine as well please ?", Gratis, no charge, no money asked for or given....

 

More research needed I feel.

 

Opinions on a postcard please.

[Cuban8]

Sorry, didn't make myself clear. I was thinking more of the toy and hobby market for drones only.

 

Came across this quite by chance. Scary or what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPJkU93kkNk

 

As far as I'm aware you only have to abide by the ANO and nothing else in the UK. Find a suitable area and off you go - unless you fancy flying the expensive and large drone you've just bought from the local tech shop first that is........ and you've got a good phone signal to do all the tests and pay your registration on-line.

They fly paramotors from a field just a couple of miles from me - looks a lot of fun - but not with an Ali Express one!

Edited June 24, 2023 by Cuban8

[Peter Jenkins]

It is the same for full size gliding.  There is no gliding licence.  You do have to join a gliding club to get instruction in how to fly and the instructors will all have been through an instructors course (either BGA or service gliding association) to be allowed to instruct.  Gliding has a far better safety record compared with power flying.  Generally, you need to have a cross country rating before you are allowed to fly a glider cross country i.e. outside the gliding range of your home airfield.  Unless things have changed since I packed in gliding, there are no exams  to sit unlike you do for a PPL.  You are taught how to use a map, usually a 1/4 million scale and learn about controlled airspace as part of the cross country rating as is field selection and practice field landings. 

There are para motor and hang gliding schools in the UK and one hopes potential pilots avail themselves of this training.

[paul devereux]

52 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

 

I have yet to "swot up" on camera drone rules, bmfa rules and insurance conditions so I stay legal. The pictures will only be if the roof/chimney stack on our house for our use only. I will be asking permission of " next door" for the flight as it's only good manners...

 

Just do it, if you think you can. And as for neighbours wanting a favour- why not do that as well, it won't cost you anything? I think some modellers have indoctrinated themselves with a fear of upsetting some faceless, uncaring legislators. Go to one of my local recs and you'll very likely see someone happily flying a drone with or without their children, who would just laugh at the idea asking the CAA for permission. And I for one would think it would be sad if someone suggested it.

You do realise lots of people have Ring-type door bells, that not only record to their phones, but upload video and images to the cloud as well?

Edited June 24, 2023 by paul devereux

[Geoff S]

5 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

It is the same for full size gliding.  There is no gliding licence.  You do have to join a gliding club to get instruction in how to fly and the instructors will all have been through an instructors course (either BGA or service gliding association) to be allowed to instruct.  Gliding has a far better safety record compared with power flying.  Generally, you need to have a cross country rating before you are allowed to fly a glider cross country i.e. outside the gliding range of your home airfield.  Unless things have changed since I packed in gliding, there are no exams  to sit unlike you do for a PPL.  You are taught how to use a map, usually a 1/4 million scale and learn about controlled airspace as part of the cross country rating as is field selection and practice field landings. 

There are para motor and hang gliding schools in the UK and one hopes potential pilots avail themselves of this training.

 

Not sure about full-size gliding being very safe.  A glider spun in at my old gliding club in Derbyshire killing both occupants.  The sad thing is that the pupil was on an air experience flight one evening. In fact, I was the first to fly the following day in an identical glider ( A Puschaz (sp) Polish trainer) and the sight of the wreckage in the valley below was more than sobering.  I also watch the Pure Glide videos from time to time, not because I fly now (the last time I flew a glider was in NZ on a cycle-tour in 1999) but just out of interest.  This video is quite sobering, too.

 

I've sailed quite a bit, too and no qualification is required for that either.  We just chartered a yacht and (with the permission of the owner), sailed across the North Sea to the Netherlands with only, charts, a compass and echo sounder for navigation and no radio.  So just dead reckoning and a tide chart - needless to say there were times over night when we weren't sure where we were but we succeeded.  I've sailed to Ireland, too, several times.

[Brian Cooper]

8 hours ago, David perry 1 said:

The nasty high pitched whining and the absolute UNaerodynamic shape and flight characteristics. 

I see you have met my ex-wife, then. 

[Peter Jenkins]

2 hours ago, Geoff S said:

 

Not sure about full-size gliding being very safe.  A glider spun in at my old gliding club in Derbyshire killing both occupants.  The sad thing is that the pupil was on an air experience flight one evening. In fact, I was the first to fly the following day in an identical glider ( A Puschaz (sp) Polish trainer) and the sight of the wreckage in the valley below was more than sobering.  I also watch the Pure Glide videos from time to time, not because I fly now (the last time I flew a glider was in NZ on a cycle-tour in 1999) but just out of interest.  This video is quite sobering, too.

 

I've sailed quite a bit, too and no qualification is required for that either.  We just chartered a yacht and (with the permission of the owner), sailed across the North Sea to the Netherlands with only, charts, a compass and echo sounder for navigation and no radio.  So just dead reckoning and a tide chart - needless to say there were times over night when we weren't sure where we were but we succeeded.  I've sailed to Ireland, too, several times.

Geoff

 

I think you'll find that full size gliding is the safest air sport there is.  You know that you are going to have either to find lift or a field that can be landed in safely.  In power flying, the sudden cessation of noise does somewhat alter your thinking process!  Seriously though, even a crash usually results in only minor injuries.  Death or serious injury is very rare.  This is because when you are taught to fly a glider you fly many more circuits and bumps than the average power pilot.  You are also very influenced by the weather and need to be able to read it to a much higher level of capability than the average PPL is able to.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

On 24/06/2023 at 11:08, David perry 1 said:

 

I hate drones.  The nasty high pitched whining and the absolute UN aerodynamic shape and flight characteristics.  I loath them. And the hundreds used at night to make pretty pictures make my skin crawl.  

Name one conventionally designed, electric powered, common club aircraft that doesn't make a high pitched whine. 

 

And what is it about the swarm light displays you find so offensive? It sounds like hyperbole for effect.

[David perry 1]

15 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

Name one conventionally designed, electric powered, common club aircraft that doesn't make a high pitched whine. 

 

And what is it about the swarm light displays you find so offensive? It sounds like hyperbole for effect.

Not quite sure what youd think id gain by using hyperbole to effect.   Well, my common club  Vampire edf doesnt make a horrible whine.  My sons Trojan doesnt.  My spitfire doesnt.  

 

The thing is the drones have very small high revving props, hence the whine.  Maybe youve never seen a drone.  Sounds like it.

As for the lights that make my skin crawl, its the absolute unaerodynamic- ness of it all.  They cant glide...taint natural!  I hate them.  I dont even find them attractive in the same way that ,say ,fireworks are.  

 

No, its not hyperbole, just my opinion...i dont like them and they make my skin crawl.

 

And what sort of name is Lima Hotel Foxtrot?  A trolls name?

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by David perry 1

[Tim Kearsley]

So if you don't like "unaerodynamic" craft, I presume you don't like helicopters David?  The swarm displays have a few advantages over fireworks - no loud noises to terrorise animals, no smoke, much less fire risk from hot embers reaching the ground and no debris.  Personally, I find them spell-binding to watch and I can't for the life of me see what being unable to glide has to do with it!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Drone light displays are well worth a watch to me, and they ain't one time use either.

Fireworks, not a fan really being a pet owner I see them negatively, my present dog ain't petrified of them but it's nightmare if yours is. Makes me smile how you'll get a fine for dropping a cigarette end but nowt if you scatter firework remains hither n thither ?

Scuze I for off topic n being "Woke".

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Scuze I for off topic n being "Woke".

S'ok, mods don't mind 🙂

[Philip Lewis 3]

2 hours ago, David perry 1 said:

Well, my common club  Vampire edf doesnt make a horrible whine.  

 

 

 

 

You gotta be kidding, IMHO the only thing worse than a drone for noise is an EDF, especially the small ones, sound like a hair dyer on steroids that is about to blow up.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Philip Lewis 3

[Zflyer]

We have the CAA Registration. I have some doubt as to the full implementation of Remote Identification (RID). Whilst the mantra seems to be 'safety' the other theory is remote delivery via drone. AN interesting thought, negotiating power and telephone lines in and around built up areas. Insurance would be interesting, and cost. How many drones would you use and how many drops could they make in comparison to your 'white van' I make the wild assumption there has been some sort of cost benefit undertaken.

And how many light aircraft, microlights, paragliders have RID, I know full well they do not all have ADSB. Now that is a SAFETY issue. 

As for drone display's, brilliant !

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

4 hours ago, David perry 1 said:

Not quite sure what youd think id gain by using hyperbole to effect.   Well, my common club  Vampire edf doesnt make a horrible whine.  My sons Trojan doesnt.  My spitfire doesnt.  

 

The thing is the drones have very small high revving props, hence the whine.  Maybe youve never seen a drone.  Sounds like it.

As for the lights that make my skin crawl, its the absolute unaerodynamic- ness of it all.  They cant glide...taint natural!  I hate them.  I dont even find them attractive in the same way that ,say ,fireworks are.  

 

No, its not hyperbole, just my opinion...i dont like them and they make my skin crawl.

 

And what sort of name is Lima Hotel Foxtrot?  A trolls name?

 

 

Maybe it's time to close this thread. It's too hot to try engaging with the multifaceted facetiousness anymore.

[EvilC57]

4 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

You gotta be kidding, IMHO the only thing worse than a drone for noise is an EDF, especially the small ones, sound like a hair dyer on steroids that is about to blow up.

I beg to differ. There was a time when I would have agreed with you about the high pitched scream from the older 3 & 4 bladed fans, but modern multi-bladed fans emit more of a quiet whoosh than a scream. My exposed 12-blade 70mm FMS EDF has recently drawn comment from fellow flyers on just how quiet it is in flight.

[leccyflyer]

Yep - certainly the Durafly Vampire that I passed onto my pal Jim has a very turbine-like whoosh and sounds almost Goblin-like. The older fans are much noisier but those 11 and 12 blade fans are lovely and quiet.

[PatMc]

If there's anyone at the field running an ic engine you probably can't hear an EDF anyway, particularly when they're carrying out the mandatory pre-flight "tuning" ritual that they fondly imagine will make their engine run better than it did last flight. 🙄

[Eric Robson]

It's amazing why they do it Pat, once my engine is running right it is never altered until needed. How often is the car they use tuned up? 

I used to fly a moulded polystyrene Red Arrows Hawk with a 3blade fan that was as noisy as an I c engine it was in a small valley and the sheep on the other side would run every time I  launched it 

[Peter Jenkins]

Are you sure it was the noise or could they see who the pilot was? 😉

[David perry 1]

Well im very happy to be in the clear minority in this one.  I agree the vampire has a goblin like sound but its nice, not annoying.

 

I really do find drones extremely annoying to listen to, like mozzies.

 

As for helicopters...not so much, they will at least fly if the engine stops.  What I DO dislike, even though its very clever, is heli 3d.  

 

But the drone light displays, no, i really dont enjoy them though i concede they are clever things.  

 

Like i say, always happy to be in a minority of one!  No hyperbole, no effect sought and no offence taken, even from pseudonymous posters.  No need to close the thread either...that would be the fascist woke reaction.

 

Now, where's my Blighter...?

[Eric Robson]

8 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Are you sure it was the noise or could they see who the pilot was? 😉

Ewe may be right Peter 🙂

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

9 hours ago, Eric Robson said:

It's amazing why they do it Pat, once my engine is running right it is never altered until needed. How often is the car they use tuned up? 

 

The answer to that one with any modern car is multiple times per second. 
 

Model aircraft IC engines, with the exception of petrol engines with Walbro type carburettors, tend to have extremely simple carburation with not even basic fuel pressure regulation let alone compensation for atmospheric changes.  Therefore a small amount of daily tuning is a wise precaution, particularly if conditions have changed since the previous session.  However, this should only involve a short period of warming up and checking/adjusting the full power setting for the day.  After that, start up and fly. 
 

P.S. With my moderator’s hat on, perhaps we should try to involve an element of the original topic in future replies to this thread?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Martin Harris - Moderator
Thread drift

[Cuban8]

I'm not a fan of 'needle twiddling'. Even with very simple carburettors (providing that they're manufactured correctly), our engines seem to manage OK without too much bother  providing the carburation is set carefully to start with, and engines are well run in. Perhaps a few clicks richer in very cold conditions - and as I don't  operate from several different fields that differ greatly in altitude ASL, or regularly change nitro percentages in my fuel, that's about it. |Clean and well filtered fuel (no on-board filter) and close checks on the tank and plumbing are also highly beneficial, I find.

I have a friend who is a 'twiddler' and will always, without fail, go through the performance at the start of every flying session - he also has the most engine 'problems' and dead sticks. I think the twiddling is more of a habit than anything else TBH.

I know I shouldn't tempt fate, but I honestly don't remember the last time that I had an engine die on me during a flight.